Totally Green - Me not the pool

[redhed100]

Ok, maybe I missed it, and I apologize in advance, but I need help.

We just purchased an 18' above ground pool. We are having it installed where a pool was before. It was not there when we moved in 12 years ago, just the circle where it used to be.
When I talk to these pool store people, they all tell me different stuff. I believe I am an intelligent person, but this is a whole new world. I searched on the internet and after finding so much information (way too much), I seem to be more confused on what I need than when I started. I kept coming back to this site, which makes more sense to me than all the info I had read anywhere else. Even after reading & skimming the Pool School link, I still am not seeing what I am looking for. I was hoping somewhere to find a laundry list of what I need from the very start, since I am not re-opening a pool etc. I just need a list. So here is some other information that may or may not be important.

I live in Union, Missouri 63084, I am pretty sure my city water is from a well source.
1) Should I get a test kit and test it ahead of time?
2) What do I need to do to get a pool started? I know that some of the stuff comes with the pool, but if I use the BBB method, what do I need to do at the very start?
3) What about an automatic chlorinator? Is that the floating rubber ducky thing? Or is that a piece of equipment? I know the pool store said it costs extra, do I need it with the BBB method?
4) Do I need to buy a solar blanket? Will this cause water issues?
5) I don't want to swim in a pool of chemicals, is the BBB method safer than packaged chemicals? (meaning made for pool chemicals)

Also, does anyone have issues with horseflies? What do you do about them? I am terrified of them and I know they are attracted to water, so I am curious how others handle this issue.

I probably have more questions, but I can't think of them all right now. Thanks so much for this website.

Sincerely,

Colleen

 

[Bama Rambler]

I searched on the internet and after finding so much information (way too much), I seem to be more confused on what I need than when I started.

The internet is like that. Sometimes it floods you with too much info. Stick around here and we're happy to help you sort it all out.

I kept coming back to this site, which makes more sense to me than all the info I had read anywhere else.

Welcome to the site. IMHO you've found the best place to get your questions answered. (yes, I'm biased).

1) Should I get a test kit and test it ahead of time?

In my opinion you should definitely get a test kit and test it ahead of time. Most test kits don't have tests for metals and I don't think it's worth it to buy one IF you have access to a local pool store that can test for it. If your fill water doesn't have metals then once is all you'll ever have to test it.

2) What do I need to do to get a pool started? I know that some of the stuff comes with the pool, but if I use the BBB method, what do I need to do at the very start?

My first suggestion is to test the fill water then come back here and post the results. Once we know that, we can advise you what you're most likely going to need. Of course you'll need liquid chlorine or bleach but you can pick that up anytime.

3) What about an automatic chlorinator? Is that the floating rubber ducky thing? Or is that a piece of equipment? I know the pool store said it costs extra, do I need it with the BBB method?

I recommend against getting one. People who have them and have switched to BBB use them for vacations, etc. but you can buy a floater and use it at a much lower cost.

4) Do I need to buy a solar blanket? Will this cause water issues?

Depending on how warm you like your water, you may not NEED one but you'll probably want one. It not only helps keep the water warm but helps reduce evaporation.

5) I don't want to swim in a pool of chemicals, is the BBB method safer than packaged chemicals? (meaning made for pool chemicals)

The whole premise of the BBB method is to know what you need to put in your pool and not add anything you don't need. Which makes it a lot safer than just throwing whatever the pool store sells you in and hoping for the best.

Also, does anyone have issues with horseflies? What do you do about them? I am terrified of them and I know they are attracted to water, so I am curious how others handle this issue.

To answer your question. Yes we have issues with horseflies! They're not as bad around the pool as you might think. We'll get a few but they mostly shy away from where water is splashing. We just splash them with water whe they come around and they haven't been too bad.

Please ask all the questions you have and we'll be glad to help.

 

[257WbyMag]

Welcome to TFP! Glad you found us.

Pool stores can and do give conflicting information at times. The good thing about the folks here is that we aren't in the business of selling things here. Therefore, we simply give you advice or choices to help you along the way.

You are essentially starting a new pool so that is the tack that you want to take.

Other than learning some simple facts about how pool water behaves and why, a high quality test kit is the best prevention for problems that you can have on hand. There are a few to choose from but among the best are the TF-100 (link in my sig line) and the Taylor K-2006. The TF-100 is a better value as you get more testing reagent for your money.

To use the BBB method, you need something to sanitize. Most of us use 6% household bleach for this. You need to be able to control pH. This can be accomplished on various fronts depending on your fill water but usually involves a combination of muriatic acid, baking soda, and borates. You will also need stabilizer, commonly in the form of CYA. If you run a saltwater system for your pool, then of course salt would be required.

Automated chlorinators can be a salt water chlorine generator (SWCG), a tablet dispenser, a floater (the ducky thing), or even a device to dispense bleach.

Solar blankets are very nice to have as in can extend your swim season. As long as you keep your water balanced, they should pose no special problems.

The BBB method is preferred because of the simplicity of the design. Pool chlorination, whether it come from pool store products or bleach, involves the same chemicals. The difference comes in what else is included in the pool store versions. Certain chlorine tablets and powders contain extra substances which may be helpful in the beginning, can build up over time and cause problems. Bleach doesn't have these extra things mixed in and makes it much simpler to control what is happening in your water. It ends up being cheaper in the long run because you have fewer problems to treat, such as algae blooms from overstabilized pools.

Horseflies are problems depending on where you live. Unfortunately, they are almost impossible to eradicate unless you rid yourself of the reason that they are there. If you have livestock nearby, they will be around. DEET based repellents can keep them from biting you, but that is of little help when you are in the pool since the DEET washes right off.

My best advice for you is to look through the Pool School link on the site. Read up on opening a new pool, pool chemistry, and the like. When you have questions, come to us, and we will help you.

 

[TizMe]

Welcome to the forum !

First thing you need to invest in, is a good test kit so you don't have to rely on your local pool store to test your water. All they will do is sell you chemicals you don't need to buy. Save your $$ and spend it elsewhere. There is an article in Pool School that compares 3 different types of test kits used by people in this forum. I personally use the TF100 test kit for the simple fact is is distributed by a member on this forum and the customer service offered is impeccable! Therefore issues and questions with the kit can be addressed right here on the forum.

I would suggest getting your well water tested to see whats in it so you know before hand to have the right stuff on hand to combat any issues(possibly) caused by the well water and post them on the forum for answers to your questions. We can "assume" that most of your readings such as clhorine, CYA, PH will or should be close to 0 (zero)

When opening your pool for the first time I think you can do that by opening it following the section in Pool School about beginners guide to season and temporary pools.

Once you get the hang of testing your water for yourself your off to the races !! Read through pool school, write your questions down and post away. There us a wealth of knowledge on here and people are willing to help !!

Good Luck !

 

[redhed100]

Thank you very much for the replies. I am going to look into getting a test kit and I will get back to you!

Thanks!

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Ok, maybe I missed it, and I apologize in advance, but I need help.

We just purchased an 18' above ground pool. We are having it installed where a pool was before. It was not there when we moved in 12 years ago, just the circle where it used to be.
When I talk to these pool store people, they all tell me different stuff. I believe I am an intelligent person, but this is a whole new world. I searched on the internet and after finding so much information (way too much), I seem to be more confused on what I need than when I started. I kept coming back to this site, which makes more sense to me than all the info I had read anywhere else. Even after reading & skimming the Pool School link, I still am not seeing what I am looking for. I was hoping somewhere to find a laundry list of what I need from the very start, since I am not re-opening a pool etc. I just need a list. So here is some other information that may or may not be important.

I live in Union, Missouri 63084, I am pretty sure my city water is from a well source.
1) Should I get a test kit and test it ahead of time?
2) What do I need to do to get a pool started? I know that some of the stuff comes with the pool, but if I use the BBB method, what do I need to do at the very start?
3) What about an automatic chlorinator? Is that the floating rubber ducky thing? Or is that a piece of equipment? I know the pool store said it costs extra, do I need it with the BBB method?
4) Do I need to buy a solar blanket? Will this cause water issues?
5) I don't want to swim in a pool of chemicals, is the BBB method safer than packaged chemicals? (meaning made for pool chemicals)

Also, does anyone have issues with horseflies? What do you do about them? I am terrified of them and I know they are attracted to water, so I am curious how others handle this issue.

I probably have more questions, but I can't think of them all right now. Thanks so much for this website.

Sincerely,

Colleen

Hi Colleen, Welcome!
If you haven't already read these Pool School articles, give them a look see.
Also I always liked this article, BBB for beginners when I first joined TFP, I think it's a good starting point.

Your questions:
1. Yes, good idea to know what you will be dealing with ahead of time. See the article in Pool School that compares the two kits we recommend. Your own test kits means not having to regularly go to a pool store for testing and be subjected to often bad advice and pressure to buy unneccessary chemicals.

2. At the very least, bleach. Your pre-test of your water will reveal if you need the other two B's. You will also need CYA (Cyanuric Acid) which acts like sunsreen for your chlorine, makes it last longer.
I would also recommend since you have a well, confirming if you can filter the water first to filter out metals - if not, you'll need sequesterant. You can confirm through a local pool store who can usually test for iron and copper if they are even present in your water. (Pretesting your water will also yield information on the PH/TA if they are too high you'll need Muratic Acid.)

3. It's both. One is an "inline" which is probably what the pool store is referring too, the rubber ducky is the after-install method, though an inline can always be added later (and a much better option). You can use it with BBB or not, some members successfully use a combination of tablets and bleach. You just have to understand what the tablets do to your water chemistry and how to fix it. That knowledge will come in time....

4. Solar blankets help retain heat gained during the day, at night when it's dark, so your water stays warmer. It's a personal preference. The blankets help cut down on uv destruction of chlorine during the day, and also helps keep the pool cleaner (blown in dust, etc.-IF you can get the cover off without all the crud flowing into the pool, LOL) seriously it does help with little bugs, debris, dust etc. It helps prevent evaporation, so in some areas of the country that's a good thing.

Blankets, depending on quality/price, need to be replaced every so often, the cheaper the blanket the more often you need to replace it. Some find them to be a hassle, others find them to be a neccessity.

5. A pool "full of chemicals" depending on the definition of that, can be good, can be bad. The basic BBB method is not only good, it's necessary for maintaining a sanitary pool. There are lots of trends towards alternative sanitizers, but honestly they are extremely costly and end up causing more harm than they do good.

Chlorine is chlorine is chlorine. Whether it comes in the form of a powder, a tablet or a liquid, whether the bottle is labeled "clorox" or "Pool Shock" - once it's in your pool it all does the same thing. BBB is a less expensive, simpler way of maintaining the pool, than the "traditional pool store" method, which can be very costly depending on the recommended chemicals, many of which are completely unneccessary.

Yes, I take issue with Horseflies-especially when they dive bomb us in the pool. :lol: Fortunately for us this has been rare.

 

[redhed100]

As far as the water testing goes.....

Is this information the type I can find on the internet? (I am referring to the city water supply, is there someplace where cities are required to list the contents of their water)?

Or, is the testing specific to chemicals in the kit?

Thanks again!

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Your basic test kit tests are
FC
CC
PH
TA
CH
CYA

Pool stores can test for Iron and copper.

Your water company may have data regarding metals content and some of the other parameters posted on its website. Sometimes our water company inserts a pamphlet in one of the monthly bills.

For everyday pool care you'll just need the basic that the kits test for - the initial issue will be how to deal with the metals if they are present. Once they are present you'll just continue with ongoing sequestering or maintenance of the issue and won't have to test for it very often or more than annually...

 

[redhed100]

I just got some info faxed from the City Water District. They gave me two different sample results, one that was taken about a block to the west of my home, one that was taken about 2 blocks south. The results were very diffferent. Here they are....

1 block west:
Copper - Dissolved Result - 45.9 MCL - 1300 SS - 1000 Units - ug/L
Lead - Dissolved Result - <1 MCL - 15 SS - na Units - ug/L
Turbidity Result - <1 Units - NTU


2 blocks south:
Copper - Dissolved Result - 14.2 MCL - 1300 SS - 1000 Units - ug/L
Lead - Dissolved Result - 1.89 MCL - 15 SS - na Units - ug/L
Turbidity Result - <1 Units - NTU

They also told me hardness of the water ranges between 300-400 mg/L or 17-23 g/g.

Is this bad or good? Why such a difference in the copper content? (is this common?)

 

[Melt In The Sun]

The most likely source of the copper discrepancy is different pipe materials at the two sources. Both of those numbers are quite low. 1 ug/L = 1 ppb (0.001 ppm)

Lead numbers are insignificant, since any public drinking water source must conform to the EPA maximum contaminant level (MCL) which is 15 ppb (0.015 ppm).

If they can tell you, knowing the iron content would be useful, since it is also a common cause of staining.

The hardness number seems OK, but they didn't specify if that is total hardness or calcium hardness.

 

[GrantsPool]

sounds like you have a eventful spring ahead. Unfortunately I cannot give you much wisdom on the process as I am getting started myself; however, I would caution you about filling with well water. You may consider trucking in municipal water to reduce the pressure on your well.

 

[redhed100]

We haven't even broke ground for the pool yet. We paid for it, but have not heard from the pool guy since. I don't think it is an issue, I think that we need several 70 degree days in a row before they could install it, and we just this week got a couple 70+ degree days. I can hardly wait to start my large scale chemistry project!!!!! I will get back to you all as soon as I get a real water test and figure out what do to from there.

 

[redhed100]

Ok, I got my TF-100 and here are some initial results:

TA = 210
CH = 300
PH = 7.5
Chlorine did not even register, as I am just testing my water, we have not added anything yet.

So what next?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Hello again,

Is the pool installed and full, or is the tap water from the faucet?

You'll need Chlorine, Muratic Acid, and CYA/Stabilizer.

 

[Bama Rambler]

I'll assume this is the new fill water in the pool.

So here's what I glean from the results.

FC = 0
CC = 0
pH = 7.5
TA = 210
CH = 300
CYA = 0
Did that pretty much cover it?

First thing is to get some chlorine in there. Use the pool calc to figure what to add. Looks like about a quart to start. Since there's no CYA in there you're gonna lose it pretty fast during the day so test and add often till we can get some stabilizer in there.

Speaking of CYA go ahead and hang a sock of it (According to PC that's about a quart and a cup or about half a 4 lb container) in front of a return. That'll get you to about 35 or so which is a good place to start. depending on how much sun you get you may want a little more or less. Give it a couple of days then bump your FC up to the recommended level (for CYA of 35 that's about 5ppm). Don't worry about testing for the CYA for about a week after adding it because even though it's there it takes about that long to show up on the test.

 

[redhed100]

I need a little help with the lingo, can you give me more info, so that I understand the abbreviations?

FC = 0
CC = 0
pH = 7.5 - I know this one
TA = 210 - I know this one
CH = 300 - I know this one
CYA = 0

Sorry, I am still learning.
Yes this is the fill water, it is the same from the tap and/or hose. It is city water.
Should I use any of the chemicals that they give me to start with, or just use the BBB right away?

By the way, how long before I can actually swim in it once I get these chemicals going?

 

[zea3]

I need a little help with the lingo, can you give me more info, so that I understand the abbreviations?

FC = 0Free Chlorine, the good chlorine that sanitizes the pool
CC = 0Combined Chlorine, the used chlorine that can indicate a need to shock if over 1.0
pH = 7.5 - I know this one
TA = 210 - I know this one
CH = 300 - I know this one
CYA = 0 Cyuranic Acid, also known as stabilizer or conditioner. Acts as a buffer between the sun and the chlorine. Too little CYA and the chlorine will burn off before it can do its job sanitizing your water. Too much CYA and the chlorine is too protected and can't get to the stuff in the water to sanitize it. You will end up using 2-3 times as much chlorine to keep the water clean. Think of it as like giving a backrub to someone wearing a heavy coat. It would be much less work without all that protection!

Sorry, I am still learning. Once upon a time we were all in the same boat.
Yes this is the fill water, it is the same from the tap and/or hose. It is city water.
Should I use any of the chemicals that they give me to start with, or just use the BBB right away?That depends, what did they give you?

By the way, how long before I can actually swim in it once I get these chemicals going?Depends on what you put in, but usually you can swim the same day.

 

[redhed100]

Ok, so I was told by the pool people (where we bought it) to put in 1 gallon of shock and 1 container of algicide. I did and then the next day I brought them a sample like they requested. Apparently, I only brought enough water for her to do a PH test, which came out 7.5. She then told us to add a container of conditioner (cya) and some chlorine tablets. We put 2 - 3inch tablets in the floating thing. That was yesterday, and I have not tested since. I have the T-100, and I am done with the pool store lady's advice, so what do I test for now? Please help and I will do whatever I need to do. I have a gallon of muriatic acid, 1 gallon of shock, and I can easily get borax at walmart down the road. Also is cya available in packaging other than pool stores, or is that a pool specific item?

 

[PaulR]

CYA is a pool thing. Sometimes big-box places have a pool section that carries it, but mostly you get it from pool stores. Look for cyanuric acid in the ingredients, 90% or higher.

The tablets are probably "trichlor" (the chemical name is longer but that's how it starts) which is a combination of chlorine and CYA. Mostly you'd use tabs in a floater for vacations as it dissolves slowly. The tabs you've put in are already there so I'd just leave them (won't do any harm). For regular chlorine dosing, bleach is best. The liquid shock they gave you is hopefully "liquid chlorine" which is basically double-strength bleach; depending on the price it might be a better deal or a worse deal than regular bleach.

For right now you need to be adding some bleach daily, until the CYA gets in there. Check out the Pool Calculator for figuring out how much of anything to put in the pool.
--paulr

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Did you add the conditioner (CYA) as she advised? Or are you looking to purchase it elsewhere?
Walmart has it in their pool department, its in a 4 lb jug under the HTH brand, look for purple on the label.

I would follow the test kit instructions for each test, just to get the feel of it, get used to and more comfortable with testing. Then post the results here.... skip the CYA test for now, till you answer the question above.