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Thread: Heat Pump/Cooler

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    Heat Pump/Cooler

    I am getting ready to buy a heat pump and I had my pool pre wired for a heat pump when it was build 11 months ago. I have been doing some research on Heat Pumps/Cooler and would like to get some idea's on which unit people on here like or dislike. Thanks in advance!
    18X38 Grecian 26000 gallon In Ground Vinyl. Goldline AuqaRite SWG with a 1.5 HP Pentair Pump. Triton 2 Sand Filter Two main drains with 4 main returns with 2 more returns on the swimout and two skimmers. Polaris 380

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    Re: Heat Pump/Cooler

    I like my Aquacomfort. It has no cooler, but i'm in the NE and dont need it.
    They all pretty much work as advertised. Just realize when you see the BTU out put, that is the BTU at OPTIMAL conditions (i.e 80 degree air temp, 80% humidity, or somewhere there bouts). You should look at the curve. Most run anywhere from 80,000-120,000 BTU depending on humidity and ambient air temps.
    Some brands use titanium heat exchangers. They are touted as being impervious (nearly) to chlorine/salt/etc. You will lose some efficiency. Copper heat exchangers will allow the HP to operate at cooler ambient temps. If you keep the chemistry in line, there is nothing wrong with copper, IMO. Mine has a copper exchanger. Since i live in a northern clime, i liked the heat curves better. For you in the south, titanium probably would not make much difference. The warrenty on the heat exchanger is very good for any brand i looked at.
    Piston vs scroll compressors. Scrolls are a bit quieter. Maybe you might see a little better efficency. If the price difference was huge, the scroll would not be worth the extra, IMO. But again, my opinion.
    Heat pumps are like anything else. The best one is what you have (if you like it and had no trouble) or its one you sell if you are a dealer
    A dealer can give you the upside and downside of the different brands. Just take what they say with the proper amount of due diligence if they only deal in one brand
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Heat Pump/Cooler

    Ken, if you have specific questions on heat pumps, you can contact me directly.
    First, make sure you have the right size breaker for your heat pump. Most are going to require 40 - 60 amps, 220 volts.
    There are benefits to going with the Heat and Cool models of heat pumps. They will allow the heat pump to continue to operate when the ambient air temperatures fall below about 55 degrees. Most heat pumps will form ice around the evaporator coils, which shuts the system down. A Heat and Cool unit will reverse the refrigerant flow to melt down the ice, then return back to heat mode. For pools in areas that get winterized, or shut down before it gets too cold (such as the NE), you can manage without the heat and cool feature. However, if you still run your system into the cooler months, or if you want to COOL the water over the hot summer months, then Heat and Cool is the way to go.
    Regarding the Heat Exchanger, while copper was the industry standards, because as BK406 said, titanium is not as efficient, the design of the titanium heat exchanger can make a huge difference in the efficiency of a titanium heat exchanger. AquaCal warrants our Therm-o-Link titanium heat exchanger for a lifetime, and provide as good or better performance than copper heat exchangers. It's in the design.
    I represent AquaCal, but I am also a pool owner with an AquaCal Heat and Cool unit too.
    Hope this was helpful.
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Re: Heat Pump/Cooler

    Isn't copper a "bad" thing if the owner has a SWG (as does the OP)? EDIT: It seems not with proper care - see more informed responses below

    Are there any piston type compressor heat pumps that can exceed a COP of 4.0 at the low temp AHRI standard? I ask as I believe a new Florida law mandates that level of performance. I know some OEM sites such as Heat Siphon admitted their piston compressor system can't meet Florida code (they also offer scroll compressor models). At any rate, I would look to a site like AHRI to see independent test certifications since this industry seems to lack any meaningful self-regulation.

    To look at the data go here: http://www.ahridirectory.org/ahridirect ... earch.aspx It should take you direct to their page listing the various manufacturers who have submitted units for independent testing.

    And last, if it's a unit that uses R-22, you should get it at a fire-sale price since IIRC they are not being produced anymore (although existing stock can be sold until exhausted??).
    Geometric 16X36', 16K gal, shotcrete, exposed aggregate plaster, acrylic coated concrete deck/cantilever coping;
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    Re: Heat Pump/Cooler

    We went with Heat Siphon at http://www.poolheatpumps.com/
    The guys are really great to deal with. Marcus is the owner and he is very knowledgeable. Our heat pump has a COP of 7.3 and it seem to sip the electricity when we use it. Just my 0.02 cents....
    5,775 gal, IG free form, Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish, 2 swim out benches, Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues, StaRite Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter replaced with Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15, Polaris 360, Pentair 300w Light upgraded to Pentair IntelliBrite (OMG what a huge difference) , Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers, solar cover, TF-100 test kit, Pentair Deck Jet, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer (Makes testing a breeze), Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Margarita Concoction Machine,
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    Re: Heat Pump/Cooler

    Sean,


    Why is the warranty less in Georgia then it is in Florida per the Web Site. Thanks everyone for the information.

    Ken
    18X38 Grecian 26000 gallon In Ground Vinyl. Goldline AuqaRite SWG with a 1.5 HP Pentair Pump. Triton 2 Sand Filter Two main drains with 4 main returns with 2 more returns on the swimout and two skimmers. Polaris 380

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    Re: Heat Pump/Cooler

    Quote Originally Posted by lee32903
    Isn't copper a "bad" thing if the owner has a SWG (as does the OP)?
    I'm not sure why this should be the case... assuming that pH is kept with normal limits and the water is reasonably balanced. There are lots of heaters working with installed SWGs out there.

    Thanks for posting the AHRI link; I'm sure many folks will find it helpful.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Heat Pump/Cooler

    Copper is fine with normal SWG salt levels, 3,000-4,000, but not with ocean water salt levels, 30,000-40,000. As polyvue said, it is the PH that really matters with copper (should be 7.0 or higher at all times).
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: Heat Pump/Cooler

    Lee, the link to AHRI is perfect for verfying manufacturer claims on BTU and COP.
    Everyone, be careful of claims of extremely high COP ratings. If you click on the link Lee provided, the highest COP of the manufacturers listed at high temperature, is as high as 6.4 COP, as verified by AHRI.
    Heat Syphon provides test data as tested to PHPMA specifications...however, reserves the right to revise the ratings. What?
    COP of 7.6? I'm not saying that they don't make a decent heat pump...but I am saying do your research.
    Some manufacturers failed to submit units for testing due to a change in how the test units are selected. The PHPMA accepted units from manufacturers for testing, which were often manipulated for higher than normal results. AHRI randomly selects a production line unit for testing. When that change occured, some manufacturers dropped out of the testing of their systems. Were they hiding something?

    Ken, regarding the warranty. Our warranty is actually in line with most manufacturers standard warranty. Our compressor warranty is not a proration warranty either.
    Florida and the NE states have extended parts warranties because we have factory employee technicians to provide the service and replacement parts to factory specifications.
    After the 2 yr warranty, a subcontracted HVAC company can sometimes use an equivalent part to make repairs, in which we don't control the quality at that point.
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

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    Re: Heat Pump/Cooler

    Sean,

    If you look back in could you explain why there are three versions of the 155SQ model in the first 20 listed on the AHRI website, specifically model numbers beginning with 155AH, 155BH, and 155GH?

    The first model has a slightly higher set of numbers, the other two are equal to each other. I'm wondering if this a design difference or is this a manufacturing variation kind of thing. And if it's a design difference, is it worth seeking the AH model from whomever one uses as a supplier?
    Geometric 16X36', 16K gal, shotcrete, exposed aggregate plaster, acrylic coated concrete deck/cantilever coping;
    Pentair equipment suite (EasyTouch w/wireless, 2 Intellibrites, Intelliflo VS-3050, C&C 200 Filter, IC-40 SWG);
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  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: Heat Pump/Cooler

    Has to do with voltage, phase, and hertz.
    http://aquacal.com/images/stories/pdfs/ ... manual.pdf (page 33)
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: Heat Pump/Cooler

    Thank you
    Geometric 16X36', 16K gal, shotcrete, exposed aggregate plaster, acrylic coated concrete deck/cantilever coping;
    Pentair equipment suite (EasyTouch w/wireless, 2 Intellibrites, Intelliflo VS-3050, C&C 200 Filter, IC-40 SWG);
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  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: Heat Pump/Cooler

    heat siphon for me, love it... but if you want it to heat up quickly a heat pump may not be for you.. it does take some time to get it up to where you want it. but after that they will do a great job... our rates in Washington state are Farley cheap.
    live in eastern washington state
    18x36, Vinyl inground 24k
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    24" sand filter, polaris 280 with booster pump.

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Heat Pump/Cooler

    Definately agree with you there Hayfarmer. If you want QUICK heat or MUST have heat when it's below 50 degrees out, you need to use a gas heater.

    We have several heat pumps that were operating along Puget Sound (Port Ludlow and Port Townsend) and maintaining 86 degree water a week before Thanksgiving (below 50 degrees out)! It's just a matter of perspective and reality.
    Are you really going to use the pool when it's 40 degrees out?
    If you are, does it really need to be 86 degrees, or will 75 degrees be acceptable?
    Most people will not use the pool when the air temperature is below 50 degrees.

    I may live in the South, but that's the feeback/perspective I get from northern climate customers.
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

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