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Thread: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

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    NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    Hello All

    Im new to the forum and new to pools.

    My wife and I just contracted for a inground free form gunite pool with raise spa. We are getting a free form 38x21 that goes from 3-6' (approx 30,000 gal )with standard brick coping, Ansylbrite finish, 2-6 ft swimouts and something the builder calls a "cozy corner" - which a fancy name for a large entry way with seating benches, Also, an 7' round, 18 inch raised spillover spa, all surounded by 1300 Sq ft of brushed concrete patio.

    Since I'm new to pools, I'm very open to suggestions, especially on items that have to be done while in the building phase. So please feel free to shout out any advice (ex - Umbrella holes etc)

    Our Pool Package comes with the usually assortment of standard items, but I have some choice to make.

    Such as
    Filter - Choice of Sand, DE or cartriage - (I'm leaning toward Cartriage)
    Pentair pump
    Nature 2 (although I'm starting to lean towards Salt)
    Raypak Heater
    LED lights (1 one pool 1 in Spa)
    Jandy wireless remote
    Polaris 360 robot


    Decision I still need to make are
    -Filter Type
    -Nature 2 vs SWG
    -Pool cover and a safety solution - Been looking at Katchakid net and Katch a leaf systems since I believ they use the same set of anchors. Which is rare, as all the other would require 2 sets of holes to be drilled - There has to be someone out there that offers safety fence or net that can use the pool cover anchor system
    -Waterline tile

    Thanks in advance for your help

    Dom
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Rgds,
    Dominick (Inground Pool Newbie)
    650 sq/ft - 20k gallons
    Free-Form Gunite with Granite Ansylbrite Finish
    40 sq/ft 18' raised spa
    Jandy DE60 filter
    Jandy Aquapure 1400
    Jandy Aqua link PDA

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    No Nature 2
    SWG is the way to go, paired with a Cartridge filter

    Google search feature (bottom left corner) for the Nature 2

    Others with more experience on the other issues will chime in (sidenote: I'm moving this to the "build" area of the forum tho...)

    Welcome to TFP!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    Welcome, welcome! Glad to have you here.

    Sounds like a great setup that you are going to have. I know that you are excited.

    A salt water chlorine generator is a very convenient way to go. Many folks here have just that type of system and there is much information to glean from this site on that very subject. We also have many industry experts on that as well who can help guide your decisions.

    One thing to note is that mineral systems such as the Nature 2, Pool Frog, and others are not stand alone pool water disinfection systems. There are really only three approved systems of killing bacteria in a pool, these being chlorine, bromine, and baquacil. Nature 2 delivers none of those. A SWCG produces chlorine. Mineral systems put certain minerals (metals) in your water to help control algae growth for the most part. The problem with this is that the metals that they add can become problems later. In addition to this, the replacement cartridges are usually quite expensive. We have found that problems such as algae and disinfection can be easily handled with good water testing and maintenance of the water with standard chemicals. I did have a Nature 2 system on my pool. It has since been removed and things are better now because of it.

    Keep us posted on the progress and post pictures of your build. We like those!
    10K gallon IG gunite with waterfall; Pentair CC320P filter; WhisperFlo 2 HP pump
    TF Test Kits - Pool Math - Pool School
    "It depends."- JohnT

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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by 257WbyMag
    Welcome, welcome! Glad to have you here.

    A SWCG produces chlorine. Mineral systems put certain minerals (metals) in your water to help control algae growth for the most part. The problem with this is that the metals that they add can become problems later. In addition to this, the replacement cartridges are usually quite expensive. We have found that problems such as algae and disinfection can be easily handled with good water testing and maintenance of the water with standard chemicals. I did have a Nature 2 system on my pool. It has since been removed and things are better now because of it.

    Keep us posted on the progress and post pictures of your build. We like those!
    Thanks for the warm welcome and the information. In fact I think you both just helped me make up my mind. My neice was born with albinism and will be in my pool frequestly. Most "Metals" will rapidly affect the color of her hair. Sounds like the SWG is $$ well spent

    PB quoted me an additional $1500 for SWG. should I have them do it while building the pool or look for a better price somewhere else?
    Rgds,
    Dominick (Inground Pool Newbie)
    650 sq/ft - 20k gallons
    Free-Form Gunite with Granite Ansylbrite Finish
    40 sq/ft 18' raised spa
    Jandy DE60 filter
    Jandy Aquapure 1400
    Jandy Aqua link PDA

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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    Dominick,

    You are correct about the effects of metals in pool water on hair color. There has been a longstanding myth about chlorine causing blonde hair to turn green, when in actuality, this is exclusively due to copper being in the water.

    Yep, the SWCG is a win-win choice for sure.

    I cannot say for sure that $1500 for the SWCG is a good price or not as I don't have a SWCG. That seems to be a good price for buying one aftermarket, but for a new build, I am not sure as in some instances, it may be cheaper to have it thrown in the package, so to speak. Of course, it also depends on brand and type as well. Do you know what model your PB installs?
    10K gallon IG gunite with waterfall; Pentair CC320P filter; WhisperFlo 2 HP pump
    TF Test Kits - Pool Math - Pool School
    "It depends."- JohnT

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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    I believe it is the AquaPure system
    Rgds,
    Dominick (Inground Pool Newbie)
    650 sq/ft - 20k gallons
    Free-Form Gunite with Granite Ansylbrite Finish
    40 sq/ft 18' raised spa
    Jandy DE60 filter
    Jandy Aquapure 1400
    Jandy Aqua link PDA

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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    I agree WRT to losing the Nature2.
    I agree on the salt cell.
    I agree having a pool sweep.
    Going LED is Good.

    WRT to the equipment choices, Go ALL Pentair. Mixing brands reduces your warranty.

    Pentair Pump, none more reliable. The variable speed pumps are AWSOME.
    MasterTemp Heater is the equivilent to a RayPak in quality.
    You're going to need 2 lights in the pool. One won't cut it. The pool is too big. IntelliBrite is the best as spreading the light evenly.
    Quad DE is the easiest DE filter to clean.
    Intellichlor IC 40 or IC60 Salt Cell. If you go over 30,000 gallons, go with the 60. It'll last longer.
    The Legend sweep is as reliable as they come.
    Easy Touch is easy to use, configure, and is less money than Jandy's RS series equivalent. It will control everything and every feature.
    Instead of a one year warranty, it'll all be covered by Pentair's 3 year system warranty.
    What ever tile and coping you choose, make sure they are rated use in the North East or you will have chips and cracks.

    NJ requires a non climbable fence and unreachable lock, self closing gates and alarms. CatchAKid is, IMHO, not needed. They are also a bit a PITA to hook up and take down. Then the anchors also need to be lowered or else someone will stub a toe or trip. Watch The Kid is needed. So is Teach The Kid. Best practices I've found.

    Good Luck!

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    $1500 is about right for a SWG with controller. Since you're going to spend a bit of money for that it might make more sense to buy a single controller that will operate everything: pump(s), heater, valves, SWG etc. Another $1000 now will make system integration and troubleshooting easier. I have a Hayward controller but Jandy and Pentair also make controllers that will do the job.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
    __
    View of spiral galaxy in Ursa Major NGC6217 - Hubble Telescope 2009

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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    The added 2 years to the warranty is nice too. Being able to maximize your equipment's features is a big plus. The same phone number for support of all the products ensures all hands know what the other has done without the homeowner having to go round and round is HUGE.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    No Nature 2
    SWG is the way to go, paired with a Cartridge filter

    Google search feature (bottom left corner) for the Nature 2

    Others with more experience on the other issues will chime in (sidenote: I'm moving this to the "build" area of the forum tho...)

    Welcome to TFP!
    i have to respectfuly disagree and LOVE the nature 2
    Never once came across problems with a pool due to using that product or have heard any cutomers complain about green hair... The copper level in the nature 2 is very low.. But enough to do whats its supposed to.
    Cuts chlorine use in half.. sometimes more..water is soft as silk

    salt is nice to, but its a constant battle with high ph and alkalinity...all of the pools ive seen have anyway.... everyone has there likes and dislikes! For those with salt.. Do you notice a high ph and alkalinity level?

    scott, im not following you.. i swear lol...
    [center:3gj9kdnn]Matt Heck
    "HECK OF A POOL SERVICE LLC"
    Serving Ocean co. NJ
    COMPANY INFO BELOW
    http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en ... 2995187987[/center:3gj9kdnn]

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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    Nature2 is supposed to put small amounts of silver and copper in the water. I seen bad cartridges, bad batches, etc... several times over the years.

    When working correctly, they can reduce the amount of chlorine used to fight biologicals because the metals have some anti pathogen properties that can help kill algae and some other biologicals.

    Chlorine is an oxidizer that breaks down things like skin oils and lotions, fecal, etc... The level of residual needed in a pool hasn't changed. Whats available to oxidize these impurities vs algae, etc. has slightly. The levels to do the oxidizing will also take care of the biologicals so the metals added by the Nature2 are not needed. I still need the same residual. Add that chlorine is faster too.

    Nature2 replacement packs are not cheap. They are a relatively high profit margin item that needs to be replaced every 3 months. Our swim season, for example is about 4-5 months. Two cartridges @ $70 each. Why spend it? If I use tabs, it's not going to reduce the number of tabs I need to buy each season. I can't turn my salt cell down or use fewer bottles of bleach.

    Back to the cartridges. I have seen metal levels shoot up and I have seen duds. pH drops caused black stains from the silver and pH rises caused copper stains.

    Lets assume we open a pool in late May and close it in mid September. Back in August, we put a new cartridge in the dispenser. Closing 6 weeks later, I have to throw the cartridge out because it doesn't have a shelf life after opening and using.

    That $140 buys a lot of pool toys.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    I'm not going to repeat my very long novel of personal experience with regard to ionzers -

    but I can attest that they are NOT WORTH the additional expense. Nothing they do warrants the ridiculous cost, and certainly not the side effects that come with it. Perhaps some have been lucky or the conditions in some situations prevent the "bad" stuff that has happened to others (like myself), but I don't see why something that is completely uncessessary is worth the extra expense, or risking potential problems, to anyone....

    I sure wish I had taken a picture of my dog when he was green. Same with my son's hair. I still have copper staining on my liner from the ionizer days - and its the ionizer use that eventually led me to TFP. But I guess that last part is technically a good thing, LOL
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom

    I sure wish I had taken a picture of my dog when he was green.
    Good Lord!! That must have been a sight!
    10K gallon IG gunite with waterfall; Pentair CC320P filter; WhisperFlo 2 HP pump
    TF Test Kits - Pool Math - Pool School
    "It depends."- JohnT

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    Well it wasn't as though he was headed to a St. Patrick's day parade or anything....but definetly green, more noticible when he was wet but when he was dry he just looked dirty all the time, even if recently bathed. I loved it when he went to the groomers cuz they'd cut all the green stuff off and he looked white again!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Heckpools's Avatar
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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    spa nature 2 needs to be changed every 3 months, but the ones for the pool is 6, so here its only 1 cartridge a swimming season.
    sorry to hear about all those bad experinces.. poor doggy!

    Ive always kept the chlorine level at at 1ppm, shocked with mono each week... and kept a close eye on ph.. and the pools all looked amazing!

    I guess if you dont keep a close eye on the ph and it drops, you can have some metal staining... but if you have a heater with a copper exchanger your up the creek without a paddle anyway lol..

    One of my customers DOES NOT liten to me... every year, her water is purple... and eveyyear i ask her how often she checks her ph... i have no idea how the heat ecchanger isnt leaking yet, but soon enough i guess...
    [center:3gj9kdnn]Matt Heck
    "HECK OF A POOL SERVICE LLC"
    Serving Ocean co. NJ
    COMPANY INFO BELOW
    http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en ... 2995187987[/center:3gj9kdnn]

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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Heckpools


    Ive always kept the chlorine level at at 1ppm, .
    what is the stabilizer level?
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Heckpools's Avatar
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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    40-50ish
    [center:3gj9kdnn]Matt Heck
    "HECK OF A POOL SERVICE LLC"
    Serving Ocean co. NJ
    COMPANY INFO BELOW
    http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en ... 2995187987[/center:3gj9kdnn]

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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    1 ppm is not enough chlorine for that CYA, even with the copper.

    The point people are trying to make is that a copper system like the N2 is not needed. Its an added expense and trouble (i.e.the lady with the purple water). Copper in the water at levels needed to act as an algea control modality will cause staining. The point of TFP, I believe, is to be able to take care of a pool using the least amount of extra "stuff" for far less money
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Heckpools's Avatar
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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    i understand that... I wasn't trying to sell anyone a nature 2 just giving my experience with them. You say that 1ppm wasn't enough with that cya level, then how come all the pools were fine? year after year? Im a firm believer on trial and error, not what you can "read" in a book.. Most of these nature 2 pools that i serviced is going back a few years while i was employed for another company.. every single pool followed the same protocol, and every pool looked the same. Crystal clear, soft silky water, no staining, no GREEN DOGS poor fella lol.. no algae.. just a beautiful looking pool! Im all about saving $$. Is a nature 2 NEEDED? noway.. I just personally like them, and so do my customers that use it...

    example.. Ive read many times that baquacil is great! " ive used it 30 years with no problems" well... I wouldnt use it if it was free! lol.. Ive never walked into a backyard and saw a crystal clear, beautiful baquacil pool.. doesnt mean they dont exsist.. i just havent found one.

    To each his own!
    [center:3gj9kdnn]Matt Heck
    "HECK OF A POOL SERVICE LLC"
    Serving Ocean co. NJ
    COMPANY INFO BELOW
    http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en ... 2995187987[/center:3gj9kdnn]

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    Heckpools's Avatar
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    Re: NJ - Pool Newbie - Advice Welcome

    oh, and the lady with the purple water doesnt have a nature 2. Just a heater with a copper exchanger and a problem with testing the water each week
    [center:3gj9kdnn]Matt Heck
    "HECK OF A POOL SERVICE LLC"
    Serving Ocean co. NJ
    COMPANY INFO BELOW
    http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en ... 2995187987[/center:3gj9kdnn]

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