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Thread: Plaster Question

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    Plaster Question

    I've had a total of 5 company's come out and give me an estimate on remodeling my pool. Four out of five of them have given me the option to dye the plaster. The fifth company says that they don't and won't do the dye because it spotts and stains. They said that usually the home owner has to redo it in 2-4 years.

    Has anyone had this issue?

    Thanks
    Steph
    18k Gl, Plaster Pool, Magnetex Pump, Haryward MultiValve, Clear Flo DE Filter, 220 Volt 2 phase timer #T104P by Intermatic.

    Feeling better about my pool, thanks to TFP and the gang!

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Plaster Question

    Most plaster surfaces will mottle over time. Even white will have some color variation. However, the colored plasters are just more noticeable. It doesn't mean that you will need to resurface when it happens only the color will not look as uniform. If you really want color, then you might look at some of the other surfaces such as diamond brite.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Plaster Question

    Quote Originally Posted by LovnChely
    I've had a total of 5 company's come out and give me an estimate on remodeling my pool. Four out of five of them have given me the option to dye the plaster. The fifth company says that they don't and won't do the dye because it spotts and stains. They said that usually the home owner has to redo it in 2-4 years.

    Has anyone had this issue?

    Thanks
    Steph
    Loose that 5th guys business card! He doesn't know what he is talking about.
    Factory Warranty Station for:
    Jandy, Pentair, Sta-Rite, Raypak, Polaris,
    and Paramount pool cleaning systems.

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    Re: Plaster Question - Need Help!!

    Let me tell ya. The fifth guy has really given me a headache. I need some pro's to help me figure this out...

    Please tell me what ya'll think about this....I have already had the fifth pool guy out to estimate the work I want done. Now I have made some decision on what I'm looking for so I wanted to be sure that the estimates reflect the correct work.

    This is what I asked for.
    I would prefer some color to my water simply because I don't care to have the white plaster which shows every little blemish that shows up on the plaster. Four out of five companys suggested dyed plaster, if you don't do that maybe you can let me know what white would be conpared to the cheapest alternate.

    My coping is currenly only 7-8" and I am told by the 4 other companys that looked at my pool that it is best if I consider going with the standard 12" coping. That is what the extra $700 charge was for. Cutting my existing coping back to be the standard size. It was an option on 3 out of 5 of the estimates done.

    I would like to have new equipment installed. 1 1/2 HP Pump ( I am considering going with a 2 speed), Multi Valve or push pull valve for backwash purposes, DE Filter or something similar, Timer with freeze protection. With the installation of new equipment I want to be sure that all of the above ground plumbing will be replaced. (it is being held together with large hose clamps at this point) I will most likely add a Polaris Cleaning System at this time.

    I would like to have the pool tested for leaks. It is most likely 15 to 20 years old and prior to me purchasing maintance was not preformed as required.
    This is the response from the fifth pool guy......
    Replaster with a solid based (not dyed) plaster
    82 pf $4,110
    New tile & coping ( coping currently 9" ) $2,870
    saw cut should not be done because your shell beam is only 9" and will not handle a wider coping because of the space between the shell and dirt and deck. It's hard to explain. But imagine taking the brick off, cutting the deck back, the shell is 3 inches away from the deck. Normally this void is filled with a mastic and the deck comes up to the shell except for maybe 1/2" or less.
    The mastic is then put in (liquid) and sets up to create a cushion for the deck to move but not harm the coping or tiles. Can you picture that?
    Then there comes the polaris pool sweep. Your plumbing is not adapted for a polaris. In order to put a polaris in, you will have to remove some of the deck to run the plumbing line for the polaris and then repour the deck. The only type of pool sweep you can have is one which will plug into the skimmer and run off suction.
    A 2 speed pump is a great idea, requires a dual time clock and you only need a 1 1/2hp because you have no other water returns to require a higher hp one. With water as one of natures most valuable resources, it's a shame to put in a DE filter which uses 3" of water out of your pool just to clean the filter. This costs you in water and sewer and DE every 3 to 5 weeks, whereas the cartridge filter, gets cleaned once every 6 months and you power wash them off and they will last probably 8 to 10 years. The DE however will last usually 3 years and a couple of months. Also, I am not sure what brand you have been proposed, but we recommend Jandy, which has the highest standards, longest life, and best reputation for less maintenance and more durability and pumps water faster than any on the market. Hayward equipment is the bottom of the line. It was originally for on top of the ground pools, but they thought there was more money in it for them to go in ground so they did.
    I don't know if I'm helping or hindering you here. If you want only to have the pool look different and you want it as inexpensively as possible, you may want to go ahead and take the other bid. But, I am just trying to tell it to you like it is,
    We don't do things half way or the wrong way, because we build friendships with every job we do, large or small and we don't propose something that isn't feasible. I have a feeling your being proposed something that isn't feasible with what you have right now. It possibly could end up being more money out of your pocket after the work gets started because the guys doing the work did not fill you in on "what could happen or needs to happen" prior to starting, and can't finish unless a lot of work not noted in the estimate, has to be completed to give you what you want.
    Okay, so your thoroughly confused.
    18k Gl, Plaster Pool, Magnetex Pump, Haryward MultiValve, Clear Flo DE Filter, 220 Volt 2 phase timer #T104P by Intermatic.

    Feeling better about my pool, thanks to TFP and the gang!

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    Re: Plaster Question

    Steph,

    A lot of what he said made sense to me...particualarly about the coping not exceeding the width of the bond beam. Post a picture of your pool (or several) so we can see what kind of decking you have and how it meets the pool.

    He did seem to forget you can get a robotic cleaner which will require no modification to your pool and do a great job at cleaning.

    It sounds to me like you have a lot more thinking (and learning) to do but keep asking questions until you understand what everyone is talking about. His wording is pretty confusing but I don't disagree with a lot of what he is saying....(I think!)

    A pebble-tec finish will hide all the marks and imperfections you're talking about but it comes with a set of characteristics you may not like.......pricey and it's a little rougher than plaster.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Plaster Question

    I can't post pics while I'm at work. I can only email them.

    My coping looks like a small brick about 8" and it appears to only be attached by a caulk of some kind. I'm sure it was done by the previous owner and that being the case it is only a quick patch job.
    I am not as concerned about making the coping bigger, that is the least of my worrys.. I'm worried about the plaster and the comments on the equipment.

    I get that everyone has opinions about what works and what is best.. but for 4 out of 5 to say one thing... kinda threw me for a loop...
    18k Gl, Plaster Pool, Magnetex Pump, Haryward MultiValve, Clear Flo DE Filter, 220 Volt 2 phase timer #T104P by Intermatic.

    Feeling better about my pool, thanks to TFP and the gang!

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    Re: Plaster Question - Need Help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LovnChely
    A 2 speed pump is a great idea, requires a dual time clock and you only need a 1 1/2hp because you have no other water returns to require a higher hp one.
    Even that feels oversized to me. I have about the same size pool and a 3/4hp works just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by LovnChely
    With water as one of natures most valuable resources, it's a shame to put in a DE filter which uses 3" of water out of your pool just to clean the filter. This costs you in water and sewer and DE every 3 to 5 weeks,
    I really disagree with that. Edited by Moderator Backwashing doesn't use anywhere near that much water; I can hardly tell the difference in the water level after a backwash. Also "every 3 to 5 weeks" feels like too much. Each pool will vary but mine goes 2-3 months; granted we are not in the pool every day.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Plaster Question

    The PB saying that you'll lose 3" every backwash bothers me a bit. That'd be close to 900 gallons of water every backwash. I might use 100 gallons but doubt it's even close to that. Sounds like he was just pushing the cartridge filters. While there's nothing wrong with cartridge filters, don't discount DE or sand because of the amount of water backwashed out.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: Plaster Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    The PB saying that you'll lose 3" every backwash bothers me a bit. That'd be close to 900 gallons of water every backwash. I might use 100 gallons but doubt it's even close to that. Sounds like he was just pushing the cartridge filters. While there's nothing wrong with cartridge filters, don't discount DE or sand because of the amount of water backwashed out.
    Location matters. Don't know where OP resides... if it's in the dry-as-a-bone southwest, every drop of water counts for something. So, don't want to dismiss cartridge filters too quickly either. On the other hand, most parts of the United States enjoy (suffer?) relatively high summer humidity and periodic rain; that makes the choice of a sand or DE filter much more viable.

    Someday "they" are going to require pool covers and cartridge filters on every new residential build... (You heard it here, first! )
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Plaster Question

    whereas the cartridge filter, gets cleaned once every 6 months and you power wash them off and they will last probably 8 to 10 years.
    Right, 1 year as a cartridge filter, 7 years as a cotton ball!
    A little exaggerated, but you get the idea. If you get a cartridge filter, no more than a garden hose with a sprayer gun.
    Factory Warranty Station for:
    Jandy, Pentair, Sta-Rite, Raypak, Polaris,
    and Paramount pool cleaning systems.

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    Re: Plaster Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Pool Clown
    whereas the cartridge filter, gets cleaned once every 6 months and you power wash them off and they will last probably 8 to 10 years.
    Right, 1 year as a cartridge filter, 7 years as a cotton ball!
    A little exaggerated, but you get the idea. If you get a cartridge filter, no more than a garden hose with a sprayer gun.
    I couldn't decifer your "cotton ball" comment until I noticed that highlighted text... right! Just take 'em down to the old car wash, set to PowerPlusSoapy and let 'er rip!!

    (Don't do this!)
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
    __
    View of spiral galaxy in Ursa Major NGC6217 - Hubble Telescope 2009

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    Re: Plaster Question

    I am in Texas.. not a very dry climate, though we do get hot here.

    I think that it will be best if I avoid this PB because I never got much as far as pricing goes.
    I got a very generic price like Pump $850, Filter $1100.00, and Timer $275 but no models or brand names.

    Thanks for the input.
    Steph
    18k Gl, Plaster Pool, Magnetex Pump, Haryward MultiValve, Clear Flo DE Filter, 220 Volt 2 phase timer #T104P by Intermatic.

    Feeling better about my pool, thanks to TFP and the gang!

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