All my lines to the pump from the pool are 2". 2 skimmer lines, 1 main drain. The returns to the pool all come off a 2" manifold. 5 returns are 2", and 2 (the cleaner line & the spray line ) are 1 1/2". the furthest return is probably more like 120 ft. and the nearest 60ft.
2 HP Whisperflo Replacement
- Thread starter aeopav
- Start date
- May 3, 2007
- 16,842
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
To clarify, does each skimmer/main drain line go pool to pad and each of the five return lines go pool to pad for a total of 8 x 2" lines? Also, are the descents part of the 5 returns? 3 decents and 2 standard returns or do they have there own lines?
I get close to 11 PSI with that setup so I assume that is what you have. However, the model shows that the pump is very close to run out condition and 28% over the BEP (95 GPM) which indicates that there is probably a lot of stress on the impeller shaft. The operating point is around 121 GPM @ 41 of head. Did the pump sound really loud when running? This may be one of those rare situations where there is too little head loss for the pump.
The WFDS-3 would have the same problem and have an operating point of 91 GPM @ 24' of head (BEP 61 GPM). But the good news is that there is pleanty of flow rate to go around. Are there ball valves on the return lines to control the flow rate?
I get close to 11 PSI with that setup so I assume that is what you have. However, the model shows that the pump is very close to run out condition and 28% over the BEP (95 GPM) which indicates that there is probably a lot of stress on the impeller shaft. The operating point is around 121 GPM @ 41 of head. Did the pump sound really loud when running? This may be one of those rare situations where there is too little head loss for the pump.
The WFDS-3 would have the same problem and have an operating point of 91 GPM @ 24' of head (BEP 61 GPM). But the good news is that there is pleanty of flow rate to go around. Are there ball valves on the return lines to control the flow rate?
There are 3 seperate 2" lines for the descents (I can shut each one off individually at the manifold). Both skimmers come into the pump on the same 2" line. All the returns can be shut off by one valve at the manifold, so they are all T'd together along their run. The fan sprays have 1 1 1/2" line at the manifold, so they are T'd together on their run also.
Total 2" lines 6. 1 Main drain, 1 Skimmer, 1 Returns, 3 Sheers.
Total 1 1/2" lines 2. 1 Fan Sprays, 1 Pool Cleaner (Off of it's own booster pump.)
I hope this helps and does not confuse the issue any further. I'm working off of pictures from when the pool was built, and what I see (obviously) at the equipment. I did not seem to get every detail before the piping was burried, and I'm sure I have a few shots where things were changed after I took the pictures (they made a couple of mistakes initially).
Total 2" lines 6. 1 Main drain, 1 Skimmer, 1 Returns, 3 Sheers.
Total 1 1/2" lines 2. 1 Fan Sprays, 1 Pool Cleaner (Off of it's own booster pump.)
I hope this helps and does not confuse the issue any further. I'm working off of pictures from when the pool was built, and what I see (obviously) at the equipment. I did not seem to get every detail before the piping was burried, and I'm sure I have a few shots where things were changed after I took the pictures (they made a couple of mistakes initially).
Forgot to answer a few things.
The pump noise was very quiet. Much less than the cleaner booster pump. I actually thought the Whisperflo was living up to it's name.
There is 1, 3 direction ball valve that can divert return from the pump. I can adjust flow to the returns with it (or turn them off) and I can adjust flow to the descents (or turn them off). I usually leave this valve fully open to the returns and the descents, although I do sometimes turn aff the descents.
The pump noise was very quiet. Much less than the cleaner booster pump. I actually thought the Whisperflo was living up to it's name.
There is 1, 3 direction ball valve that can divert return from the pump. I can adjust flow to the returns with it (or turn them off) and I can adjust flow to the descents (or turn them off). I usually leave this valve fully open to the returns and the descents, although I do sometimes turn aff the descents.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,842
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Ok, I am getting a better picture now. Each descent might currently be getting close to 30 GPM which is about 2x the recommended amount so the thickness of the waterfall should be about 1/2". Is that what you are seeing and are you happy with that?
A WFDS-3 will provide about 22 GPM per descent (1.5x) which will make the thickness about 3/8" and it won't shoot out as far. So it really depends on what type of look you are after. Either way, the flow rates are more than the recommendations so I think you could get away with the 3. However, I want to make sure you understand the waterfalls will not look quite the same as before but should still look fine. You can always play around with the diverter valve and reduce the flow to the descents to see how it might look.
A WFDS-3 will provide about 22 GPM per descent (1.5x) which will make the thickness about 3/8" and it won't shoot out as far. So it really depends on what type of look you are after. Either way, the flow rates are more than the recommendations so I think you could get away with the 3. However, I want to make sure you understand the waterfalls will not look quite the same as before but should still look fine. You can always play around with the diverter valve and reduce the flow to the descents to see how it might look.
I'm not sure I can say what the thikness of the descents is. Do you mean how thick the fall is where it hits the water? There, it may be that thick (1/2 in.). With a clean filter and the returns shut off, the descents probably shoot water out to land about 1 1/2 ft. away from the pool wall. I don't run that way normally, but just to give you an idea of how the plumbing is working. I'm sure I could stand a drop in the flow coming from the descents. If it were, say half, of what they flow now, I would be happy. If it were under that, probably not so happy.
Mark, I want to thank you for all the information you have provided. I feel a lot better now about making a decision on what to do. I know you keep quoting a WFDS-3, but what if I were to tell you that cutting back that much makes me uncomfortable? I'm leaning towards a WFDS-4. Would that be "reasonable"? I guess what I'm saying is that I'm wanting to err on the side of still being oversized a bit. Does that sound stupid to you? Especially with a 2 speed, I want to be sure I'm happy with the flow on low speed so I can make the most out of the savings a 2 speed can offer.
Thanks Again!
Mark, I want to thank you for all the information you have provided. I feel a lot better now about making a decision on what to do. I know you keep quoting a WFDS-3, but what if I were to tell you that cutting back that much makes me uncomfortable? I'm leaning towards a WFDS-4. Would that be "reasonable"? I guess what I'm saying is that I'm wanting to err on the side of still being oversized a bit. Does that sound stupid to you? Especially with a 2 speed, I want to be sure I'm happy with the flow on low speed so I can make the most out of the savings a 2 speed can offer.
Thanks Again!
- May 3, 2007
- 16,842
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
The thickness that I was refering to is the water depth at the lip of the fall.
Also, as for pump size, in the end it has to be your decision as to what to go with. Here are some numbers to ponder:
WFDS-6: 116 GPM (Equivalent to your current pump in GPM, HP, energy use)
WFDS-4: 104 GPM (10% reduction of flow rate, 25% reduction in energy use at full speed)
WFDS-3: 89 GPM (23% reduction in flow rate, 50% reduction in energy use at full speed)
Here is a great document from Jandy which explains some of the physics behind the waterfalls and what to expect with different flow rates. Figure out what you are looking for, determine the flow rates required and then decide on the pump to use. But with the WFDS-3, you will be losing less than 25% of the flow rate but cost only half as much to run at full speed. Half speed will be half of that or a 75% reduction in energy use of your current pump!
Also, as for pump size, in the end it has to be your decision as to what to go with. Here are some numbers to ponder:
WFDS-6: 116 GPM (Equivalent to your current pump in GPM, HP, energy use)
WFDS-4: 104 GPM (10% reduction of flow rate, 25% reduction in energy use at full speed)
WFDS-3: 89 GPM (23% reduction in flow rate, 50% reduction in energy use at full speed)
Here is a great document from Jandy which explains some of the physics behind the waterfalls and what to expect with different flow rates. Figure out what you are looking for, determine the flow rates required and then decide on the pump to use. But with the WFDS-3, you will be losing less than 25% of the flow rate but cost only half as much to run at full speed. Half speed will be half of that or a 75% reduction in energy use of your current pump!
AV8TOR
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JasonLion said:
Wow too big for a 36,000 gal pool, don't laugh but the house we purchased 1-1/2 years ago has that same pump and I am guessing my pool at 14,000 gal. What is the flow rate of this pump and filter. Mine says WF28C but I do not think it is 2 speed. How can I check?
All you need to do is buy a 2 HP motor replacement. The type of motor you need to buy is a square flanged, threaded shaft 2HP motor. You only need to buy the dry side of the pump--the motor. You don't need to spend the extra money and buy a whole new pump replacement. In addition, purchase a new pump seal and plate seal o-ring and away you go. That will be your cheapest route to go. Replacing the bearings is too expensive and it will be worth it to replace the motor in whole.
I respectfully completely diasgree with this. I can replace a set of motor bearings for about $20.00. You're not going to touch a motor for anywhere near that. Even if I buy the most expensive bearings made for those motors it's only about $60.00. That's cheaper than buying a new motor.Pacifica said: