Central Jersey Pool Quote

[PondtoPool]

Hello everyone.

I'm new to the forum and would like to thank all of you in advance for your advice. There is one thing I noticed about the pool builders--they like to use the jargon and so I get lost rather quickly.

I have found that when comparing quotes, the builders like to make this as much of a process of comparing apples to oranges as possible. I have had differences in quotes amounting to as much as $20K, with the cheaper quotes quite coincidentally lacking in specifics sometimes whereas the higher quotes are filled with specifics as to add ons etc.

I'd love to hear your thoughts about this quote from a nationally-recognized builder for a pool build in Monmouth County NJ. I thought the extras might be priced a bit expensively compared to the base pool quote.

Well, this is how the quote puts everything:

Pool: 700 square feet
Depth: 3 to 7 feet

1. Builder to supply conceptual design, construction, blueprints and engineering drawings.
2. Builder to obtain building permits.
3. Excavation and soil removal.
4. Five (5) hydrostatic relief plugs.
5. Six (6) steel reinforcing rods per perimeter foot in bond beam (exceeds industry standards).
6. Gunite Structure, engineered for frost and fill conditions.
7. 6” Band of ceramic swimming pool tile.
8. Four (4) shallow end steps.
9. Tumbled bluestone coping.
10. Cleaning and filtration system:
a) 450 square feet commercially rated cartridge filter with lifetime warranty, with microban antimicrobial filters.
b) 2 HP Tristar Energy Saver Non Corrosive Pump
c) Two (2) deluxe extra large skimmers with catch baskets
d) Direct plumbing with individual never lube valves
e) Safety double bottom drain
f) Dual returns with directional fittings
11. Two (2) colorlogic LEG Lights
12. Rope and Floats
13. Cleaning kit.
14. 6’ Love Seat with Step
15 Indoctrination and start up instructions.
16. All phases of construction supervised.
17. Transferable structural warranty package.
18. Temporary Construction Fence.
19. Silt Fence
20. 6’ X 14’ , 12” deep sunshelf with umbrella sleeve.
21. Anti-entrapment device CODE REQUIREMENT.
22. Topographical survey – TOWNSHIP REQUIREMENT.

ACCESSORIES
Automatic Pool Cleaner HAYWARD PHANTOM VAC. ¾ HP BOOSTER PUMP.
Heater… 400,000 BTU’S WITH ELECTRONIC IGNITION - HAYWARD H – SERIES.

TOTAL $ 42,600.00


ADDITIONS TO ABOVE
Electric –30 AMP sub panel, time clock and outdoor receptacle with up to 300 Lf. hook up to pool pump, booster pump, heater and lights. $ 2,480.00

Gas install 140 L.F. Of natural gas $ 1,555.00
(OVER 140 L.F. = $ 11.50 PER ADDED L.F.) (METER UPGRADE BY BUYER IF REQUIRED)

Deck – 650 Sq. Ft. OF DRY LAID BLUESTONE $ 19,900.00

Fence – INSTALL 250 L.F. OF 54” Ultra Aluminum $ 8,450.00

GRADE - FINAL GRADING, BACKFILLING, AND LANDSCAPING – BY BUYER

OPTIONS TO ABOVE
COLOR QUARTZ FINISH – Stain Resistant & Durable $ 2,780.00

SOLID MERLIN COVER WITH PUMP. $ 4,525.00

GOLDLINE PS-8 WIRELESS WATER PROOF HAND HELD REMOTE CONTROL. Includes Salt Sanitizer (Salt Not Included)
$2,350.00 ADD $ 345.00 FOR ELECTRICAL HOOK-UP.

FOR TOTAL POOL CHEMISTRY ADD AN OZONATOR AND NATURE
2 MINERAL CARTRIDGE. $ 900.00 ADD $ 95.00 FOR ELECTRICAL HOOK-UP.

SPA… 50 SQ. FT. SPA WITH (8) JETS. INCLUDES: BLUESTONE COPING, 2 H.P. SILENT AIR BLOWER, BOOSTER PUMP FOR 4’ SPILLWAY, LED LIGHT, AND BENCH WITH STEP. $ 7,175.00 ADD $ 285.00 FOR ELECTRICAL HOOK-UP.

FOR SPA COVER ADD $ 265.00

ELEVATE SPA 18”. INCLUDES TILE FACING $ 2,095.00

96 Sq. Ft. COZY CORNER $ 2,200.00 ADD $ 480.00 FOR COVER.

 

[bk406]

I'm not a pool builder but been around building business all my life. I'll take a stab at. I'm sure PoolguyNJ will have comment or 2 or 3.

Pool: 700 square feet
Depth: 3 to 7 feet

1. Builder to supply conceptual design, construction, blueprints and engineering drawings.
2. Builder to obtain building permits.
3. Excavation and soil removal.
4. Five (5) hydrostatic relief plugs.
5. Six (6) steel reinforcing rods per perimeter foot in bond beam (exceeds industry standards).
6. Gunite Structure, engineered for frost and fill conditions.
7. 6” Band of ceramic swimming pool tile.
8. Four (4) shallow end steps.
9. Tumbled bluestone coping.
10. Cleaning and filtration system:
a) 450 square feet commercially rated cartridge filter with lifetime warranty, with microban antimicrobial filters.
b) 2 HP Tristar Energy Saver Non Corrosive Pump
c) Two (2) deluxe extra large skimmers with catch baskets
d) Direct plumbing with individual never lube valves
e) Safety double bottom drain
f) Dual returns with directional fittings
11. Two (2) colorlogic LEG Lights
12. Rope and Floats
13. Cleaning kit.
14. 6’ Love Seat with Step
15 Indoctrination and start up instructions.
16. All phases of construction supervised.
17. Transferable structural warranty package.
18. Temporary Construction Fence.
19. Silt Fence
20. 6’ X 14’ , 12” deep sunshelf with umbrella sleeve.
21. Anti-entrapment device CODE REQUIREMENT.
22. Topographical survey – TOWNSHIP REQUIREMENT.

ACCESSORIES
Automatic Pool Cleaner HAYWARD PHANTOM VAC. ¾ HP BOOSTER PUMP.
Heater… 400,000 BTU’S WITH ELECTRONIC IGNITION - HAYWARD H – SERIES.

TOTAL $ 42,600.00

Not a bad price for a gunnite pool install, normally I would say about 60-65K, but the nickle and dime stuff below MAKE it 65 K, so all in all, probably not bad with some tweaking.

ADDITIONS TO ABOVE
Electric –30 AMP sub panel, time clock and outdoor receptacle with up to 300 Lf. hook up to pool pump, booster pump, heater and lights. $ 2,480.00

This is about right for electrician costs for this


Gas install 140 L.F. Of natural gas $ 1,555.00
(OVER 140 L.F. = $ 11.50 PER ADDED L.F.) (METER UPGRADE BY BUYER IF REQUIRED)

This is about right too

Deck – 650 Sq. Ft. OF DRY LAID BLUESTONE $ 19,900.00

Kinda high. Thats 30 bucks a foot! Maybe the matrial is high. You can do pavers for 15-18 a foot.

Fence – INSTALL 250 L.F. OF 54” Ultra Aluminum $ 8,450.00

Little high, but not outragious. You would do better to find your own fence guy. chances are the pool guy is making a couple dollars a LF here.

GRADE - FINAL GRADING, BACKFILLING, AND LANDSCAPING – BY BUYER

Landscaping, ok, thats on you. Backfill and fijal grade, no way. that should be in his 42,000 price.

OPTIONS TO ABOVE
COLOR QUARTZ FINISH – Stain Resistant & Durable $ 2,780.00
No clue here. But, that should be included in a turn key price, IMO.

SOLID MERLIN COVER WITH PUMP. $ 4,525.00

Ditch the Merlin. Get a Loop-Loc. Thats high too. Loop loc installed for this size pool, 3k max

GOLDLINE PS-8 WIRELESS WATER PROOF HAND HELD REMOTE CONTROL. Includes Salt Sanitizer (Salt Not Included)
$2,350.00 ADD $ 345.00 FOR ELECTRICAL HOOK-UP.

Not bad. but electrical hook up should be included in the above elctricians price.

FOR TOTAL POOL CHEMISTRY ADD AN OZONATOR AND NATURE
2 MINERAL CARTRIDGE. $ 900.00 ADD $ 95.00 FOR ELECTRICAL HOOK-UP.

Dont need this. Waste of money.


SPA… 50 SQ. FT. SPA WITH (8) JETS. INCLUDES: BLUESTONE COPING, 2 H.P. SILENT AIR BLOWER, BOOSTER PUMP FOR 4’ SPILLWAY, LED LIGHT, AND BENCH WITH STEP. $ 7,175.00 ADD $ 285.00 FOR ELECTRICAL HOOK-UP.


FOR SPA COVER ADD $ 265.00

ELEVATE SPA 18”. INCLUDES TILE FACING $ 2,095.00

96 Sq. Ft. COZY CORNER $ 2,200.00 ADD $ 480.00 FOR COVER.

No opinion on the spa work. Personally, i didnt want a spill over spa. In northern climes you cant use it after you close the pool in october and there are a lot of ties in late fall or early spring a spa would be nice, but cant use it. I prefer a free standing, not connected to the pool.

All this is my opinion of course

 

[DBfan187]

A lot of prices builders quote all depend on how many sub-contractors they use. They have to mark up the cost on top of the sub's cost to make anything. Usually the less subs, the lower the cost. At least here it is.

 

[bk406]

Usually the less subs, the lower the cost. At least here it is.

Same as it is here. Like i said, 65k for a gunite pool with heater, SWG, and all the stuff he has listed, probably not a bad price for the northeast. His deck and fence are high. You would do better to find your own contractor for that. Only little thing i saw that REALLY stood out was the backfill and final grade was on you. That should be included in that 42,000.

 

[PoolGuyNJ]

What, me have some ideas or comments? Well, maybe a couple.

Mind if I ask what company? I suspect I know but there are a couple of changes to this quote from the normal M.O. but given that it is the beginning of the season here, changes happen.

Two returns, I prefer 4. Two at each end. The return fittings just restrict flow.

I'm not a big Hayward fan.

450 Sq Ft filter? I know of 2. One locks you in to buying replacements only from them. Single source is not a desirable thing, IMHO.

Are there provisions for high water or rock or unsuitable soil at excavation?

What is the pay schedule?

Item 21 says Anti-Entrapment Device. What device?

What is the base finish? Diamond Brite? Plain plaster? Hydrazzo?

Merlin's solid cover weighs a lot. Storage will be a challenge. Loop-Loc's Ultra-Loc II will weigh 1/3 less. 200 lb cover vs 130 lb cover. The cover price quoted is in fact ridiculous unless you plan on having a dry laid travertine deck that requires core drilling. I didn't see that in the quote.

Blue stone gets very hot in the summer. Some flake with our weather.

Items 18 and 19 are required for construction. While a deposit may be required, the returned materials should get you your deposit back.

#5 doesn't specify what size rebar.

How thick is the beam? floor? walls?

Specify that trimmings and rebound will be removed and not reused.

I didn't see clean up listed.

Grading and back filling is normally included. Did you request it not be included like a landscaper or construction company owner might?

3M has discontinued Color Quartz. There is still a lot in the pipe line however.

Lose the Ozone and Mineralizer.

Compare fencing. I agree that shopping is a good idea. There may be quality issues and patterns the PB has available that others don't. That may go the other way to.

The sun shelf's umbrella holder, please put it on the deck and not in the pool. Winter can freeze the water that deep. Ice expands when it forms and in the sleeve, that wouldn't be good. On the deck, any rain can drain out the bottom. If this doesn't extend far enough, then a canter levered umbrella might be more suitable.

Big spill way. Are you looking for a sheering over flow? How about a pitched spill where the water spills over stacked and pitched stone? By not requiring the sheering, the volume of water needed for the effect is reduced. Another idea is make a negative edge in the spa. With the pool as a the catch basin, the added pump will create a very cool effect when you're in it. Down side is trying to keep the spa hot.

If you keep the spa at pool height, a 15-18" spill will save on the need for the additional pump and associated electrical. It's a lot easier to care for too when it isn't raised and easier to cover too in winter.

Automation with a spa side control is useful. Usually, they have a 125 Amp capable sub panel built in. An indoor controller and/or full function remote is nice.

30 amps won't be enough for the lights, pool pump. heater, blower, pressure side sweep booster. Add in landscape lights and it's totally lacking.

Scott

 

[bk406]

30 amps won't be enough for the lights, pool pump. heater, blower, pressure side sweep booster. Add in landscape lights and it's totally lacking.

Scott

Totally missed this. Yes, 30 amps is wimpy. 100 amp sub panel for a pool is what i would go with. Landscape lights use 120 volt outlet you can pull off the panel. Landscape lights are really cool. Low voltage lights only need a 120 volt circuit. You can run a LOT of 20 watt lights off one circuit. At any rate, 100 amps is .

 

[Lershac]

Good lord! 30 amp panel and hookup for $$$ that seems high... but I do my own electrical. I upgraded to 400A service in my home for a little less than that, with new 400A panel and meter pan, and a 40 foot run of 4-0 to my old main panel.

 

[bk406]

Electrical work in the northeast is pretty high. But, that quote is pretty typical for a subpanel and equipment hookup.

Can you say: Union

 

[DBfan187]

Usually the less subs, the lower the cost. At least here it is.

Same as it is here. Like i said, 65k for a gunite pool with heater, SWG, and all the stuff he has listed, probably not a bad price for the northeast. His deck and fence are high. You would do better to find your own contractor for that. Only little thing i saw that REALLY stood out was the backfill and final grade was on you. That should be included in that 42,000.

$42K, even $65K here in south GA is VERY expensive! Most of the pools here with that stuff start around $17,995

 

[bk406]

They do more pool build volume in the south is my guess. Northeast corridor is expensive to boot.

Still, pool equipment and materials cant be that much different. Concrete still runs 80-100 bucks a yard, i guess. I dont see how anybody actually makes any money down there. Paver jobs for 6 bucks a foot, gunite pools for less than 20k. Must be some mighty cheap labor! I could break even, maybe, at 12 bucks a foot for a paver deck, MAYBE.

 

[Heckpools]

welcome to NJ

Scott, how do you fit all that in that little head of yours????? My gosh brotha lol

 

[Brentr]

They do more pool build volume in the south is my guess. Northeast corridor is expensive to boot.

Still, pool equipment and materials cant be that much different. Concrete still runs 80-100 bucks a yard, i guess. I dont see how anybody actually makes any money down there. Paver jobs for 6 bucks a foot, gunite pools for less than 20k. Must be some mighty cheap labor! I could break even, maybe, at 12 bucks a foot for a paver deck, MAYBE.

I love living in Florida :-D We paid $2.75 per sq ft I wonder what our pool would cost to build in the Northeast

 

[bk406]

2.75 a foot?

My guess is the guy didnt have any insurance, neither workers comp, liability, no health insurance for his guys, and they were not strictly legal. No way he made money. You could not buy the materials for that money, much less do the install. Good pavers are 3 bucks a foot wholesale. Any less, they are seconds and over runs, period.

How much is concrete down there?

 

[Brentr]

I am not sure but I got the whole pool built with pavers and equipment for 22k. We could have gotten any size pool for about the same price as there was a minimum charge just to get the concrete trucks. I added the heat pump after for $3100. I had the pool cage added at the same time per recommendations of the PB for $6500 which I contracted separately. We were swimming in 21 days :-D , could have been 17 days but the screen man was backed up. Our PB is a reputable builder, builds a lot of commercial pools and hotel pools has his 2 sons working for him and they are licensed land surveyors, and plumbers, small family owned business for 25yrs. Our PB comes to all of our major parties. He also sends potential customers to look at our pool. Look at our pool build in the signature

 

[DBfan187]

2.75 a foot?

My guess is the guy didnt have any insurance, neither workers comp, liability, no health insurance for his guys, and they were not strictly legal. No way he made money. You could not buy the materials for that money, much less do the install. Good pavers are 3 bucks a foot wholesale. Any less, they are seconds and over runs, period.

How much is concrete down there?

All of the builders here have those credentials and do quality work. The cost of living down here is waaaaayyyyy cheaper than in the north and in California. Pools are pretty cheap here as well and with the way the construction industry is slow right now business is hurting and these guys will do whatever they can to get business.

If you come here to build pools and start quoting people $30K+ for a pool with the basics you're not going to get any business, period.

 

[bk406]

Maybe. But im telling you, he made no money. Your pavers are at least $1.50 a foot, bare minimum. Accounting for cuts,etc, ~2000 sq ft of materials, thats 3 k for brick. For 1800 sq feet, you neeed ~22 yards of processed gravel for a base and ~22 yards of sand. Thats going to run, at least here, close to 700 bucks. Now your up to almost 4 grand for materials. At 2.75 a sq foot, thats $4950 for the job. Subtract the materials and he's left with maybe $1000-1100. Even at 10 bucks an hour, which is slave labor, at 60 man hours, which is generous to get a job like that done and do the cuts correctly, that $600 for labor. Now your left with ~$500 to pay insurance and then make a profit.


These numbers are REALLY rough, but i just wnat you to see what things really cost and how out of whack this is compared to the real world and what kind of deal you got

 

[bk406]

The cost of living down here is waaaaayyyyy cheaper .

That may be, but how much is do you pay a basic laborer per hour? You cant even sniff out a decent guy here or less that 15 bucks and hour. most want 20.

And, having worked in the midwest, prices for this kind of stuff are not that much different than they are here. Friend of mine just had a gunite pool installed last fall in oklahoma city. 25,000 gallons and all the bells and whistles with a paver deck and stone coping, spillover spa, etc. He paid a little over 50k.

 

[PoolGuyNJ]

Hmm, 800 sq ft at 4" thick, thats about a $2225 bill.

Assuming :

10 yard redimix truck cost $500
4 man crew for the pour/broom finish in 4 hr @ $15/hr burdened cost plus supervisor @ $30/hr is another $360
2 men to form and lay rebar in 3 hrs $90
Rebar, lifts, flex forming edge, gravel bed, $600

Doable but other costs such as tools, transportation, etc.. not included. I guess in the larger picture with the added profits of the other stages, a company can continue to operate.

Burdened cost includes workmans comp and liability insurances.

The numbers are just numbers and have no real basis other than a basic idea for cheap labor and goods and purchases in volume helping to lower costs.

Swimming in 21 days? Thats a lot of work done to a shell before it's cured. Plaster too.

Scott

 

[New2Me]

If you've ever installed/removed/stored a cover (Loopslop, or other) you will envy the guy that turns the key on his automatic cover and opens it to a clean pool each time you want to swim, and then closes it when done, no leaves, less cleaning, less chemicals and more enjoyment! If you do it BEFORE the pool is built, you can keep the tracks out of sight-out of mind, and it is not that much more expensive (in terms of pool dollars.)

 

[Brentr]

Maybe. But im telling you, he made no money. Your pavers are at least $1.50 a foot, bare minimum. Accounting for cuts,etc, ~2000 sq ft of materials, thats 3 k for brick. For 1800 sq feet, you need ~22 yards of processed gravel for a base and ~22 yards of sand. Thats going to run, at least here, close to 700 bucks. Now your up to almost 4 grand for materials. At 2.75 a sq foot, thats $4950 for the job. Subtract the materials and he's left with maybe $1000-1100. Even at 10 bucks an hour, which is slave labor, at 60 man hours, which is generous to get a job like that done and do the cuts correctly, that $600 for labor. Now your left with ~$500 to pay insurance and then make a profit.


These numbers are REALLY rough, but i just want you to see what things really cost and how out of whack this is compared to the real world and what kind of deal you got

I remember the paver guy just measuring sq footage. He just had his guys come out her to do the work. The pavers are new pavers because they had to make them specially for us as they did not have them in stock and only made them on certain dates of the month.

Hmm, 800 sq ft at 4" thick, thats about a $2225 bill.

Assuming :

10 yard redimix truck cost $500
4 man crew for the pour/broom finish in 4 hr @ $15/hr burdened cost plus supervisor @ $30/hr is another $360
2 men to form and lay rebar in 3 hrs $90
Reba, lifts, flex forming edge, gravel bed, $600

Doable but other costs such as tools, transportation, etc.. not included. I guess in the larger picture with the added profits of the other stages, a company can continue to operate.

Burdened cost includes workmans comp and liability insurances.

The numbers are just numbers and have no real basis other than a basic idea for cheap labor and goods and purchases in volume helping to lower costs.

Swimming in 21 days? Thats a lot of work done to a shell before it's cured. Plaster too.

Scott

Scott I respect what you are saying. I remember seeing 2 concrete trucks coming when they were doing the pool shell. My notes says 14yds of 5000psi concrete. The footer for the pool cage was poured from another concrete truck on another day as this is special concrete and I believe it took 11yds. There was 30 bags of antigua used for the pool plaster.
I would like to correct the price of the pavers as I looked back at my notes. All the pavers inside the screened area was negiotated at $5.00 per sq ft (approx. 1100 sq ft) All the pavers outside the pool cage was negioted at $2.75 per sq ft. (approx. 650 sq ft)