Help with spa jets
- Thread starter velazed
- Start date
PoolGuyNJ,
I will post a pic of the spa in pool mode.
waste;
If I only turn the return valve (the one circled in green), the water on the spa return to the pool and enter only thru the spa jet. Still no bubbles
lborne;
When I isolated the pool from the solar heater, I think that the system is using only one of the check valves (one right after the filter). Unless the one below ground is not working properly and allow water to pass.
Based on everybody helps, I can concluded that the possibles causes are;
1) Low flow pressure going to the spa jet due to:
a. two check valves (one right after the filter and one below ground) - they lowered the flow too much??
b. a clogged filter cartridge- I will double check by removing the filter again.
c. air lines are clogged (no bubbles)
d. a defective jandy valve restristing the flow to the spa jets. (the return valve - the one circled in green)
If anybody have any other possible cause, let me know.
Again, I really appreciate your help.
Thanks
Ed
I will post a pic of the spa in pool mode.
waste;
If I only turn the return valve (the one circled in green), the water on the spa return to the pool and enter only thru the spa jet. Still no bubbles
lborne;
When I isolated the pool from the solar heater, I think that the system is using only one of the check valves (one right after the filter). Unless the one below ground is not working properly and allow water to pass.
Based on everybody helps, I can concluded that the possibles causes are;
1) Low flow pressure going to the spa jet due to:
a. two check valves (one right after the filter and one below ground) - they lowered the flow too much??
b. a clogged filter cartridge- I will double check by removing the filter again.
c. air lines are clogged (no bubbles)
d. a defective jandy valve restristing the flow to the spa jets. (the return valve - the one circled in green)
If anybody have any other possible cause, let me know.
Again, I really appreciate your help.
Thanks
Ed
velazed said:
Good summary. I think you can easily get caught up chasing too many things and end up making mistakes - like cutting lines and replumbing. Have you removed the jets? Since you only installed them AFTER you noticed the reduced flow, just get them out of the equation for now.
a. This is the only thing that has changed from when you had good flow to low flow. But I'd check out any other possibilities that are easy to check first. Can you get the specs on that check valve from the solar installers and see what the flow rating is for it? If after everything else, you still have a problem, then you could bypass the check valve. The only question I had was that if this check valve is slowing down the flow, then it would in regular mode too and you would have noticed decreased waterfall or deck jets.
b. You already tried that.
c. Very easy to try. Loss of air = loss of bubbles = perception of low flow.
d. Doubtful, but again, easy to check.
e. Broken Pipes - you'd already know.
f. Other valves on pressure side leaking flow - Easy to tell - if you are in Spa mode and water is coming from any other ports, then you are loosing flow through a valve.
One other test you can do is to drain the spa down to the seat and then time how long it takes to fill it back up and calculate the flow rate. If it is 60-70 then there are no problems. If it is 20, then you know it is a restriction.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,895
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
a, b & d would show up as an increase in filter pressure from normal. I think lborne asked this question several times but what is the filter pressure in pool mode vs spa mode. In spa mode, it should be higher due to the nozzles although 1/2" nozzles won't add that much pressure. If the pressure drops in spa mode, then it could be a suction side problem. Besides the filter pressure:
What size/length (spa to pad) pipe is on the suction and return side?
What size/length (spa to pad) pipe is on the suction and return side?
mas985 said:
Yes, but does the OP know what their "normal" pressure was?
mas985 said:
What is your thinking mas985? None of this has changed since the problem started. If this were a new pool and he never had good flow, I'd understand. From the pics it looks like 2 inch pipe at least.
ED - is that a swing check valve or spring? It should be a swing type, but a lot of solar installers use spring type. If it is spring, then that just increases the likelyhood that it is causing your problem.
lborne,
I found that it is a spring check valve (2").
Which one should be the problem?
The one after the filter housing or the one in ground comming from the solar heater?
How this spring valve can create an slow flow?
If I isolated the pool from the solar heater the only check valve involved is the one after the filter cartridge.
Thanks
I found that it is a spring check valve (2").
Which one should be the problem?
The one after the filter housing or the one in ground comming from the solar heater?
How this spring valve can create an slow flow?
If I isolated the pool from the solar heater the only check valve involved is the one after the filter cartridge.
Thanks
- May 3, 2007
- 16,895
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Often times, just knowing the filter pressure is enough to point to the problem. However, knowing something about the existing plumbing can also determine what is the normal operating pressure range. So it would be helpful to know the run lengths and filter pressure for spa and pool modes.
Also, spring check valves have a lot of head loss compared to the swing type. But again, the filter pressure would show that.
Also, spring check valves have a lot of head loss compared to the swing type. But again, the filter pressure would show that.
Spring check valves restrict flow a lot more than swing check vavles. My favorite check valve for pool use is the one you have in the spa return. It is clear so you can see it, swing type, and you can change the spring and flapper without having to remove the body - so no cutting and glueing.
Since I can't see what is underground, I can only assume it is done correctly. If the solar is on, then the flow goes through both check valves. If the solar is off, it will only go through the one that is visible. The visible check valve is so that water can't flow backwards through your filter. The one underground should prevent water from going into the solar panel when the valve to the solar is shut off.
I can't think of an easy way to bypass it to test my theory.
Since I can't see what is underground, I can only assume it is done correctly. If the solar is on, then the flow goes through both check valves. If the solar is off, it will only go through the one that is visible. The visible check valve is so that water can't flow backwards through your filter. The one underground should prevent water from going into the solar panel when the valve to the solar is shut off.
I can't think of an easy way to bypass it to test my theory.
mas985 said:
Thanks for the explanation. I agree with you. Its looking good that the check valve is to blame.
ED - what have you tried so far from all the suggestions you've gotten?
Thanks lborne and mas985,
I will try all the suggedtions this weekend.
I will let you know (saturday or sunday) the normal operating pressure range, the run lengths and filter pressure for spa and pool modes.
Ed
I will try all the suggedtions this weekend.
I will let you know (saturday or sunday) the normal operating pressure range, the run lengths and filter pressure for spa and pool modes.
Ed
Hi Guys,
I took some numbers and I like to share with you;
Normal Operating Pressure Range;
A) Without Filter;
1) Solar Heater (SH) OFF & Pool mode only: 16 psi.
2) SH ON & Pool node only: 24 psi
3)SH OFF & only SPA mode: 28 psi.
4)SH ON & only SPA mode: 30 psi.
B) With Filter;
1) Solar Heater (SH) OFF & Pool mode only: 12 psi.
2) SH ON & Pool mode only: 19 psi
3) SH OFF & only SPA mode: 24 psi.
4) SH ON & only SPA mode: 25 psi.
Run lengths: see picture attached.
Attached you will find a picture of my Spa with 2 pipes above ground(one of them is suppose to letting in air-venturi air lines).
During the spa mode only & without filter, I noticed that when I blocked 2 of the 4 jets in the spa, I saw water comming out from the right pipe. When I removed the hanger shape cap form the one I saw water comming out, I noticed water about 3 feet below.
Thanks again guys!!!!!!![attachment=0:24hbt3gj]Pool2.jpg[/attachment:24hbt3gj][attachment=1:24hbt3gj]spa2.jpg[/attachment:24hbt3gj][attachment=2:24hbt3gj]spa.jpg[/attachment:24hbt3gj]
I took some numbers and I like to share with you;
Normal Operating Pressure Range;
A) Without Filter;
1) Solar Heater (SH) OFF & Pool mode only: 16 psi.
2) SH ON & Pool node only: 24 psi
3)SH OFF & only SPA mode: 28 psi.
4)SH ON & only SPA mode: 30 psi.
B) With Filter;
1) Solar Heater (SH) OFF & Pool mode only: 12 psi.
2) SH ON & Pool mode only: 19 psi
3) SH OFF & only SPA mode: 24 psi.
4) SH ON & only SPA mode: 25 psi.
Run lengths: see picture attached.
Attached you will find a picture of my Spa with 2 pipes above ground(one of them is suppose to letting in air-venturi air lines).
During the spa mode only & without filter, I noticed that when I blocked 2 of the 4 jets in the spa, I saw water comming out from the right pipe. When I removed the hanger shape cap form the one I saw water comming out, I noticed water about 3 feet below.
Thanks again guys!!!!!!![attachment=0:24hbt3gj]Pool2.jpg[/attachment:24hbt3gj][attachment=1:24hbt3gj]spa2.jpg[/attachment:24hbt3gj][attachment=2:24hbt3gj]spa.jpg[/attachment:24hbt3gj]
Attachments
- May 3, 2007
- 16,895
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
When you say without filter, are you just removing the cartridge? The pressure gauge is plumbed before the filter media so when removing the cartridge, the pressure should decrease and not increase. That could indicate that the filter was installed backwards so you might want to double check the port labels. Or perhaps A is B and B is A?
Part of the problem is that you have about 80' of 2" pipe to and from the spa and even if everything was working perfectly, you would not get much pressure out of the spa jets.
Also, if you cover a jet, you can expect water to backup into the venturi pipe. That is not unusual.
Part of the problem is that you have about 80' of 2" pipe to and from the spa and even if everything was working perfectly, you would not get much pressure out of the spa jets.
Also, if you cover a jet, you can expect water to backup into the venturi pipe. That is not unusual.
Mark,
Thanks again,
Yes, without filter mean removing the cartridge.
I will double check my numbers tomorrow and I will let you know.
When you said "That could indicate that the filter was installed backwards so you might want to double check the port labels. Or perhaps A is B and B is A?" What that mean? I don't have too much pool knowledge (1 year).
Do you mean the filter housing or the filter cartridge?
Ed
Thanks again,
Yes, without filter mean removing the cartridge.
I will double check my numbers tomorrow and I will let you know.
When you said "That could indicate that the filter was installed backwards so you might want to double check the port labels. Or perhaps A is B and B is A?" What that mean? I don't have too much pool knowledge (1 year).
Do you mean the filter housing or the filter cartridge?
Ed
Mark,
I almost forgot. In the past I put the pump in spa mode only and I can get pressure with bubbles (aeration)
Regards,
Ed
I almost forgot. In the past I put the pump in spa mode only and I can get pressure with bubbles (aeration)
Regards,
Ed
- May 3, 2007
- 16,895
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
velazed said:
I meant the housing. The input and output ports may be swapped but it could also be explained if the numbers were swapped when you wrote them down. Without cartridge should have lower pressure than with cartridge.
Mark,
Sorry for ask, can you explain what the "The input and output ports" mean?
Thanks
ed
Sorry for ask, can you explain what the "The input and output ports" mean?
Thanks
ed
- May 3, 2007
- 16,895
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
There are two pipe ports on the filter near the bottom. The pump is plumbed into the filter port labeled "Inlet" and the exit of the filter should be labeled "Outlet" which should be plumbed into the solar valve.
I re-checked the pool, spa, solar heater preassures and these are the results;
Normal Operating Pressure Range;
A) Without Filter Cartridge;
1) Solar Heater (SH) OFF & Pool mode only: 12 psi.
2) SH ON & Pool node only: 19 psi
3)SH OFF & only SPA mode: 24 psi.
4)SH ON & only SPA mode: 25 psi.
B) With Filter cartridge;
1) Solar Heater (SH) OFF & Pool mode only: 12 psi.
2) SH ON & Pool mode only: 19 psi
3) SH OFF & only SPA mode: 24 psi.
4) SH ON & only SPA mode: 25 psi.
I hope this help you guys.
Thanks
ed
Normal Operating Pressure Range;
A) Without Filter Cartridge;
1) Solar Heater (SH) OFF & Pool mode only: 12 psi.
2) SH ON & Pool node only: 19 psi
3)SH OFF & only SPA mode: 24 psi.
4)SH ON & only SPA mode: 25 psi.
B) With Filter cartridge;
1) Solar Heater (SH) OFF & Pool mode only: 12 psi.
2) SH ON & Pool mode only: 19 psi
3) SH OFF & only SPA mode: 24 psi.
4) SH ON & only SPA mode: 25 psi.
I hope this help you guys.
Thanks
ed
Drain the spa, remove the directional fittings. Look inside the jets. Each jet should have a hex shaped nozzle. If it's not there, the jets won't aspirate. If the nozzles are too small or clogged, the excess flow with back up out the air intakes.
I suspect that there is some pvc shavings clogging things in there. The hex shaped nozzles are threaded. Use a nut driver or socket with an extention to remove them. Then use a shop vac to blow air down the air intakes.
Scott
I suspect that there is some pvc shavings clogging things in there. The hex shaped nozzles are threaded. Use a nut driver or socket with an extention to remove them. Then use a shop vac to blow air down the air intakes.
Scott
Scott,
Thanks
I have a question for you.
In the picture attached of one of my 4 jets, that is a directional fittings or a hex shaped nozzle? How far inside the jet is the hex shaped nozzle?. Can you send me a picture of the hex shaped nozzle so I can have a better idea when I look?
Thanks
ed[attachment=0:3cflsww2]jet.jpg[/attachment:3cflsww2]
Thanks
I have a question for you.
In the picture attached of one of my 4 jets, that is a directional fittings or a hex shaped nozzle? How far inside the jet is the hex shaped nozzle?. Can you send me a picture of the hex shaped nozzle so I can have a better idea when I look?
Thanks
ed[attachment=0:3cflsww2]jet.jpg[/attachment:3cflsww2]
