Help with spa jets

[velazed]

When I redirect the pump to and from the spa only, leaving the pool out of the loop, the jets will not blow with much force, and will not aerate(bubles). (They use to0

Should be a problem of all valves not turned properly. or a defective valve.

Thanks

[polyvue]

When I redirect the pump to and from the spa only, leaving the pool out of the loop, the jets will not blow with much force, and will not aerate(bubles). (They use to0

Should be a problem of all valves not turned properly. or a defective valve.

Welcome to the forum, velazed

Does your system use a separate pump for the jets? Or is there just one pump for circulation and jets? You could try resetting the valves (back to pool mode and then back to spa) to be sure they're turned all the way... and make sure the pump filter basket is emptied. It may help to know what kind of equipment you have (type of filter - sand? DE? cartridge? and pump model), and how long it's been since the jets operated normally. Did this happen suddenly or has it taken many weeks/months to get to this point? If you haven't backwashed or cleaned your filter in a while, consider doing that and check the pressure gauge to see if it's where it should be.

[waste]

Welcome to TFP!!

Polyvue gave a good answer

I know you want to be told exactly how to fix the problem... but, unfortunately, we need more info to be able to give a definitive answer.

Please stick with us, our #1 concern is helping folks

[velazed]

polyvue & waste,

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate.
I bought my house with the pool almost one year ago, so I am new in these stuff please be patient with me.
Pool approximate gallons; 12,116, Filter size: 150 sqft (cartridge), Pump size 1.5 hp (Pentair), No. of jets (spa) = 4, No. of drains (spa) = 2, No. of return (spa) = 1, No blower
Just one pump for circulation and jets
I already reset the valves (back to pool mode and then back to spa) - no changes
I removed the pump filter and when I tried again I saw water coming out of the outside tube (this tube is in (?) shape-overflow pipe). - This was related to the fact that I put jets cover with 1/2" holes and the pressure was too much.
It happen suddenly, I the olny thing different was that I bought a solar heater for the pool but the jets have the same pressure no matter if I isolate the pool pump system from the solar heater.
Thanks

[lborne]

Your solar heater could be hooked up wrong. Are you sure it can be isolated? Can you send us photos of your equipment pad and valves. If that is the only thing different, then that is the first place to check.

I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but are you sure the spa nozzles are open? My kids were in the spa once and turned all the nozzles off. If nothing has changed since you had good flow, it is very unlikely a blockage. If you are getting good flow from the pool returns, then you can assume it is not a clogged filter cartridge.

If you have a spanner wrench you can remove one or more of the nozzles. You should also try different valve positions to give more information - such as suction from the pool and return to the spa only.

The other thing it could be is a broken return line, but you would notice the spa draining quickly.

[velazed]

Thanks Iborne,

The solar heater was the first thing I checked. I called the heater company and they charged me $80 dollar to tell me in 10 min that it is nothing wrong with the heater. (the solar heater system was 4 months old when that happen)

I will send photos of my equipment tomorrow.

At the beggining, I don't have nozzles on the spa jets. Somebody told me to buy a nozzles with 1/2" open to increase the preassure but nothing major happen. Preassure increased a little but no bubbles.

Also, I can get good flow from the pool and spa returns.

Thanks

[lborne]

Just to clarify....

At first you had no nozzles, but were getting good flow and bubbles. Then you added the 1/2" opening nozzles and not much changed - you still got good flow and bubbles. Then at some point the flow slowed down and no bubbles - correct?

Also - at some you suspected the heater since you called them back out to check. Could be some debris from the solar heater installation got caught in the check valve. Typically on a raised spa there is a check valve to keep the water from going back into the pool. It would most likely be after the pump and filter in the spa return line out by the equipment pad. Once we get photos and see what kind it is, we can tell you how to check it.

[velazed]

lborne

At first I had no nozzles, but were getting good flow and bubbles (that was before I installed the solar heater). After the solar heater installation, the next time I tried to use only the spa, the flow slowed down and no bubbles. The solar company went to my house and according to them the problem is not the solar heater.

Asking questions in pinch a penny, they told me to add nozzles to try to increase the pressure. When I added the 1/2" opening nozzles, not much changed - I got a better flow but without bubbles.

I will send you photos.

Thanks

Ed

[lborne]

OK. I think I understand now. The nozzles will not help if the GPMs are not there. Go ahead and take them out for now while you troubleshoot because your only known situation of good flow was without them.

Do you normally have some flow diverted to the spa so that it waterfalls into the pool? And did you ever notice a difference in the waterfall at some point?

[spishex]

Ed,

Some pictures of your equipment, the returns, and the "outside tube" that you mentioned seeing water coming out of would be very helpful, especially the equipment. It sounds like your issue is somewhere in the plumbing between the pool/spa return valve (possibly the valve itself) and the "T" where the plumbing splits at the spa. The check valve Polyvue mentioned is a definite candidate. Is there anything else in the plumbing between the spa and the return valve?

[PoolGuyNJ]

What is the pressure in the filter in both pool mode and spa mode.

I suspect the cartridge is dirty.

Scott

[spishex]

He posted this earlier:

I removed the pump filter and when I tried again I saw water coming out of the outside tube (this tube is in (?) shape-overflow pipe). - This was related to the fact that I put jets cover with 1/2" holes and the pressure was too much.

Which sounds to me like water coming out of the venturi controls up top, but not quite clear.

Ed: If you remove the 1/2" nozzles and the filter does your water flow to the spa improve?

[velazed]

Thanks everybody for trying to help me.

I included 3 photos of my pool pump system. First one (pool picture 001) is the overall system. The second one (pool picture) is the section going from the pool to the pump and the third one (pool picture 005) is the section coming from the solar heater to the pool.

The main problem is that when I isolate the spa from the rest of the pool, the jets will not blow with much force, and will not aerate(bubles). When I isolate the pump from the solar heater is no difference. When I remove the filter and isolate the spa form the pool and the solar heater, the pressure on the jets increased a little but no aeration (bubble) happen.

I hope this help you guys.

Thanks

Ed

[spishex]

So the return valve you're moving is the one circled in green? Where does the line with the check valve (circled in yellow) go? Is it a separate return in the spa? If you dedicate all the water to the pool returns (closing off the valve that separates "spa return" and "fountain") do you get better flow to the pool than you're getting to the spa?

[attachment=0:168yuhyl]ed spa.JPG[/attachment:168yuhyl]

[lborne]

Thanks for the pics... the only thing I don't like is the check valve they used after the filter. I prefer the type that you have on the spa return line. I'm not sure, but the type that I see in the pic does look like it could restrict flow somewhat.

Someone else asked and it is a good question - what is the pressure readings when in "normal" mode as shown vs when you are in "spa only" mode?

I'm thinking because you've removed the filter cartridge and because you get good flow in normal settings, we can eliminate the filter as the cause.

In normal mode have you found the fountains or waterfall from the spa has changed at all?

Since it is highly unliked a line is clogged or a valve has gotten blocked (but you can easily check the valves by taking them apart), I'm going to put all the blame on that check valve. Did the solar guys add that, or was it always there?

Oh - and what the heck is going on underground after the filter? Looks like if water is diverted to the solar, then where does it return? There must be a T underground and possibly another check valve for the solar somewhere so that when it is off you are not pressurizing the panels.

[velazed]

Spishex,

The valve in yellow circle is a Large Jandy Check Valve going to the spa return.
I belive that this valve prevent the spa to loose water when the pump is not working.

lborne,

The pressure reading when in normal mode is less (between 5 and 7) that the pressure in spa only mode.
In normal mode I found that the fountains pressure dropped when the solar spa is on and the water travel the hole distance (pump + solar).

Yes, there is a T underground with another check valve similar to the check valve after the filter cartridge.

What cause the bubble (aeration) on the spa jets???

Thanks
Ed

[lborne]

I'm sticking to my theory that the two check valves (one right after the filter and one below ground) are the culprits. I think they have lowered the flow too much. If you consider you noticed this only after they were added, and the very low probability of a bad valve or clogged pipe, then that would be my conclusion. What does everyone else think?

The pressure difference you are getting is about what I get too when I switch from pool/spa return to spa jets.

The bubbles come from the venturi effect. Somewhere near the spa is a pipe above ground that is letting in air. I've seen the pipe just outside the spa area in the yard and you can usually hear the air being sucked in if you are close. My spa has two pipe that are cut flush with the deck and with two screw caps that you can turn to adjust how much air to let in - like you may have seen in bathtub spas. Anyway, you won't get the aeration if the flow is too slow, so once you get the jets flowing again, it should come back.

You can try closing two or three of the spa jets and that would increase the flow to the remaining one which should be enough to pull in some air.

[waste]

Just a quick test for the spa suction: see what happens if you only turn the return valve (the one circled in green).

You aren't generating the venturi action to add the bubbles, I'm not sure if it's because of low flow or a missing sealing ring in the one, or more, of the nozzles.

We'll be here to help

[velazed]

lborne,

I have two pipes like you, but with a "hanger" shape cap at the end (?). I don't have screw caps.

Question;

If the length of those pipes are modified, this could affect the "venturi effect" or is only related to the flow pressure?

Thanks

[lborne]

Your pipes have the hanger shape thing at the end to keep debris from getting in, wasps from building nests, etc.

The length of those pipes will not affect the venturi significantly, if at all. You could remove the caps at the ends to check for clogs and just for a test, let the pipes have no restrictions.

It could be possible that the venturi air lines are clogged and that without the bubbles the flow "seems" less when in reality it is the same.