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Thread: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

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    HardTrance9's Avatar
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    Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Hi, in the pool labeled as GM on my signature, I noticed a couple of weeks ago that after doing some backwashing and cleaning the sand filter and after the floor where the water was running got dry, there was some sand in place kind of redish. Pictures below.

    It this normal to happen? Could it mean anything special? I didn't notice this before, or maybe I never paid much attention to this. Maybe it is normal?

    Thanks!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    In charge of some SWG and Bleach pools... still a newbie..

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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    The filter could be overfilled. Generally, about 2/3 of the way up is all the sand that is needed....check that.

    If it's not overfilled, the center tube could be damaged or installed incorrectly.

    If not that, the laterals at the bottom of tyhe filter could have holes in them.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    The filter could be overfilled. Generally, about 2/3 of the way up is all the sand that is needed....check that.

    If it's not overfilled, the center tube could be damaged or installed incorrectly.

    If not that, the laterals at the bottom of tyhe filter could have holes in them.
    Thanks Dave. Will check what you suggest. Will do it in a couple of days.
    In charge of some SWG and Bleach pools... still a newbie..

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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    If the sand is coming through on backwash you're ok. There's nothing to stop sand from escaping during backwash but it's own weight. If it's coming through on rinse then you have a problem because it's bypassing the laterals. You'd probably notice a buildup of sand under one or more of your returns if this was the case.

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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    HT9,

    I overlooked that you were backwashing....sorry. Spishex's reply is the one you should listen to......I should've read more carefully.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Hi all,

    No problem. Thanks for the advice. Then I guess less worries.

    Though, we have another issue more less related to the filter (or maybe nothing to do with the filter?):

    - A couple of weeks ago we used to vacuum the GM pool normally. This pool always had a "pressure" problem and the jets have never had a lot of circulating power.

    - Before a couple of days ago, when vacuuming, suddenly the vacuum aspiration power went down to zero and the vacuuming had to be interrupted, do a backwash and then again start vacuuming. Even if the pump was running, for some reason we lost circulating power when vacuuming. Had to do like two backwashings those days in order to have enough circulating power.

    - Just a couple of days ago, we stopped doing the backwashing and the vacuum process seems to be ok now, but the jet pressure is to little. We will do the backwash every month aprox. as the pool is very clean and not being used for now.

    Any ideas on why this could have happen?

    Any ideas on what could be done to improve the circulating power? I got some comments in that past that the sand filter could be to small for the pool size. The pump seems to be ok, but can't tell if it's the correct one? How to improve the circulating pressure?

    I know this has not a simple answer, but little by little I might be able to solve it with your help.

    Thanks again,
    In charge of some SWG and Bleach pools... still a newbie..

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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Any ideas on why this could have happen?

    Any ideas on what could be done to improve the circulating power? I got some comments in that past that the sand filter could be to small for the pool size. The pump seems to be ok, but can't tell if it's the correct one? How to improve the circulating pressure?
    I don't want to simply guess at an answer but a little more information might be helpful. What size/brand/model are the pump and filter?

    You said the jets have never had a lot of circulating power... assume you mean the flow of water from the returns? or are these jets of the type usually found in spas (adding air)? or deck jets?

    Was the pool particularly dirty when the vacuuming is done? Do you plug the vacuum hose into the skimmer port or a dedicated suction line?
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Check the circulation with the filter set on 'recirculate'. That will take the filter out of the equation and let you know whether or not it's the issue. If that doesn't improve things you're looking at something plumbing or pump related. Perhaps an air leak or a clogged impeller?

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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Quote Originally Posted by spishex
    Check the circulation with the filter set on 'recirculate'. That will take the filter out of the equation and let you know whether or not it's the issue. If that doesn't improve things you're looking at something plumbing or pump related. Perhaps an air leak or a clogged impeller?
    I'm sure Tim meant to add that if on 'recirc', the jet pressure is good, you're looking at a filter issue, and a sand replacement may well be in order
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Thanks so much for your answers.

    I will get the technical details on the equip. and will check on the recirculate test you have suggested. Will get back to you guys afterwars.
    In charge of some SWG and Bleach pools... still a newbie..

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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Quote Originally Posted by spishex
    Check the circulation with the filter set on 'recirculate'. That will take the filter out of the equation and let you know whether or not it's the issue. If that doesn't improve things you're looking at something plumbing or pump related. Perhaps an air leak or a clogged impeller?
    I tested with the recirculation and the flow improved on all the "jets" except one which increased just very little.

    I have never used the recirculation before. Sorry for this very basic questions, but what is good for? I guess it can't be used while vacuuming the pool?

    Thanks
    In charge of some SWG and Bleach pools... still a newbie..

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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Quote Originally Posted by polyvue
    I don't want to simply guess at an answer but a little more information might be helpful. What size/brand/model are the pump and filter?

    You said the jets have never had a lot of circulating power... assume you mean the flow of water from the returns? or are these jets of the type usually found in spas (adding air)? or deck jets?

    Was the pool particularly dirty when the vacuuming is done? Do you plug the vacuum hose into the skimmer port or a dedicated suction line?
    Sorry for the confusion. Yes, I meant the flow of water from the returns (the white holes or "jet" type around the pool what have flow, no the spa).

    The pool is not particulary dirsty when vacuuming.

    The hose gets plugged to the skimmer port.

    This are the specs:

    Cell system
    -----------

    CircuPool Salt System
    RJ-30

    Pump
    ----

    STA-Rite
    JWPA5FL-A
    1.5 HP

    Filter
    ------
    Interwater
    Modelo 190TS

    Thanks!
    In charge of some SWG and Bleach pools... still a newbie..

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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Quote Originally Posted by HardTrance9
    Pump
    ----

    STA-Rite
    JWPA5FL-A
    1.5 HP

    Filter
    ------
    Interwater
    Modelo 190TS
    I'd better let the plumbing experts tell you if the filter is too small for the pump on this system... but I like the new word you coined: "dirsty" Combination of "dusty" and "dirty" I think... do you mind if I use it?

    Pool terminology still sometimes confuses me but I usually use the term "returns" for the outlets where water (not combined with air) is flowing from the pump/filter back to the pool. But since the typical eyeball fittings on these returns tend to concentrate flow it must OK to speak of them as "jets" -- it fits the definition just as well as deck jets that arc water high over the pool.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Quote Originally Posted by HardTrance9
    Quote Originally Posted by spishex
    Check the circulation with the filter set on 'recirculate'. That will take the filter out of the equation and let you know whether or not it's the issue. If that doesn't improve things you're looking at something plumbing or pump related. Perhaps an air leak or a clogged impeller?
    I tested with the recirculation and the flow improved on all the "jets" except one which increased just very little.

    I have never used the recirculation before. Sorry for this very basic questions, but what is good for? I guess it can't be used while vacuuming the pool?

    Thanks
    Recirc is used if you need to be working on the filter while still wanting to keep the water in the pool 'recirculating'

    It's also used to help diagnose filter cloggage (if that's even a word ) Sounds like this filter may need a sand change

    Sounds like the one jet that still doesn't have good flow may have something obstructing the eyeball or line - try poking a screwdriver into the jet, with the system on, and see if you feel something

    I sincerely hope that you can fix the problem soon! As always, if you need more help/ info from us, simply ask
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Great, many thanks Polyvue and Waste!

    I will ask. First will try to check on what you suggested. Will get the manual on how to "service" the sand filter. Have never done it before. Is it very difficult to do? Somewhere I recall reading about the sand "size" and that yo must use the correct sand type.

    Polyvue, well you got me on that one: "dirsty" Not planned by me (but by my fingers). Ok with the jets/returns.
    In charge of some SWG and Bleach pools... still a newbie..

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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Reading the manual is always a good place to start. See the following link plus a quote from Pool School, also:

    my-sand-is-channeled-how-to-fix-it-t7626.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Some pool filter guru
    Sand is by far the easiest to maintain but its filtering ability is the lowest - down to about 30 microns. This can be particularly evident if your pool is lighted at night. Filter aids such as DE powder or cellulose fiber, however, can help improve sand's filtering ability. The filtering is done by the sharp edges of the sand granules which trap the dirt between them. As the water flows over the sand these edges get 'polished' and rounded off and the filtering ability is lessened over time. New sand filters better than old sand! Ask any aquarist who has ever used a sand filter! (I'm talking mechanical filtering here, not biological which is not applicable to pools.) Pools are no different. In fact some of the filters are identical! For example, Pentair makes sand filters for large aquariums and ponds as well as pools. Funny thing is they are exactly the same! Cleaning a sand filter is easy - when the pressure reaches a certain level (see owners manual) simply backwash the filter to remove the trapped dirt and debris. Back-washing is about a 10 minute process. The constant back-washing will tend to throw your water balance off but this can be useful if you use trichlor or cal hypo. Sand does occasionally need a more thorough cleaning than back-washing alone can do. Perhaps once a year, I recommend opening up the filter, sticking a garden hose in the sand and turning it on. Let the water flush out all the crud that has collected in the sand until the overflow is clean. You might have to CAREFULLY break up the sand with something like a broom handle if it is clumped together! (I said CAREFULLY so you don't damage the laterals!) If there is evidence of scale buildup then an acidic sand cleaner might be in order!
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    You wanted to know about sand replacement. I just reread this(while doing my annual review of posts) It covers the replacement but not how to get the sand out in the first place (I KNOW I saw one on that the other day and will find it if you need me to)

    Polyvue - I can name that poster by the opening sentence , but I won't because the articles were anonymous and the info is good, regardless who wrote it (no, it wasn't me)
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Sand comming out of the Sand Filter?

    Great info. guys!

    Many thanks!! Will do (plan) the hosing on that filter and check on the return...
    In charge of some SWG and Bleach pools... still a newbie..

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