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Thread: recs for energy efficient pumps

  1. Back To Top    #1
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    recs for energy efficient pumps

    You might give these folks a call. They are back feeding power from the impeller and run more efficient then your standard VFD's. The best thing... pump is super quiet!

    http://www.hybridpumps.com

    Good Luck!

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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: recs for energy efficient pumps

    Quote Originally Posted by salp
    You might give these folks a call. They are back feeding power from the impeller and run more efficient then your standard VFD's. The best thing... pump is super quiet!

    http://www.hybridpumps.com
    Hmmmprh. I don't have a positive gut feeling about this company. After I read every word on their web site -- twice! -- in less than 3 minutes, I still couldn't tell you much about their product. There were no specifications, no meaningful curve diagrams, no explanations and no prices, either. They claim the hybrid pump with HFD frequency drive they sell will

    Save $1000 a year in electrical costs
    6-14 month return on investment blah blah blah blah blah
    Sophisticated Design
    Spectacular Savings
    Dramatic Energy Savings
    Reduces CO2 emissions
    Adaptable... Efficient... Green...
    Going Green and Saving Energy has Never been so Easy!


    Why, for a minute there I thought they were going to try and sell me something! There's a link to an article (I would characterize it as a 'puff piece') about the company owner that was published by a small San Diego newspaper. Evidently their market is confined to a few southern California counties: San Diego and Orange, and parts of Los Angeles and Riverside.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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  3. Back To Top    #3
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    Re: recs for energy efficient pumps

    That's why I recommended them to call! I have an X3 pump and it saved me about $75.00 a month from my previous Pentair 2HP Pump. Best thing... Is I don't even hear it!
    I can circulate my pool at 1800 rpm which draws about 1.5 amps.

    Here is the link to their brochure:

    http://www.hybridpumps.com/Pump%20Brochure.pdf

    By the way Polyvue... Last I looked The San Diego Union Tribune circulation is about 30,000 higher than your small town Sacramento Bee!

    Good luck on your decision!

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: recs for energy efficient pumps

    I'd run away from Hybrid Pumps. Smells like a scam all the way. In an article, they claim they can run a pump on .08 Amps. Absolute bull **** of the highest degree. 80mA is about what it takes to run a night light.

    They are selling a variable flow pump and controller, encouraging the use of large diameter plumbing and then using lies, half-truths and unsubstantiated claims of "special nozzles" Any company that publishes such gross exaggerations in order to sell products is one to be leary of.

    The pump looks like a Hayward TriStar (it even includes the same black threaded fittings), a good product from a reputable company with plenty of information made available.

    The TriStar:



    The copy:

    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: recs for energy efficient pumps

    Quote Originally Posted by salp
    You might give these folks a call. They are back feeding power from the impeller and run more efficient then your standard VFD's. The best thing... pump is super quiet!

    http://www.hybridpumps.com

    Good Luck!
    simicrintz mentioned the feedback from the impeller as well but I cannot seem to find anything on the web site regarding that. Can you point out where that claim is stated and/or explained? The feedback that they may be talking about could be a control feedback for speed stability and not power feedback which does not seem even possible in an induction motor. Anyway I would like to read the claim for myself.

    Also, I had contacted the company about their standalone product and they are no longer selling it because it was causing problems with the motors. VFDs can be very damaging to motor if used on standard motors. Also, the rep admitted that the VFDs were rebadged Invertek drives (they look identical) with a bit of customization. He also mentioned that the Intelliflo pump was having failure prooblems because the pump used a permant magnet which was retaining heat in the motor so they decided to use an induction motor instead for their product. From what I can tell, you could basically duplicate their product with a 3-phase Tristar pump and a Optidrive from Bardac or Anacon (also rebadged Invertek drives). But given that the drive cost is about the same as Hayward's, there is probably no reason to do that.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater, ThePoolCleaner

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: recs for energy efficient pumps

    I called Hybrid pumps and got a clarification on what they are doing. As I suspected, they are using the feeback from the current draw and back EMF of the motor to monitor when the pump has reached full speed and then continually adjusts the average voltage (PWM waveform) such that the torque reqirement is reduced and the motor efficiency is optimized. This is NOT power regeneration but simple motor efficiency adjustments to reduce current draw for a given speed while still maintaining the set RPM. Most sensorless vector VFDs do this although they claim that their algorithms are unique and a bit more optimized than standard VFDs but a side by side would be needed to actually verify performance differences. Price point seems to be similar to other variable speeds as well. So the only magic seems to be a bit of software on the drive itself.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater, ThePoolCleaner

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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: recs for energy efficient pumps

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT
    Any company that publishes such gross exaggerations in order to sell products is one to be leary of.
    That's why it caught my eye initially. The comparisons drawn between the "average" cost of running a pump to that of running their hybrid smacked of the kind of sales promotion used to justify high margins in other industries. It's not illegal (as far as I know) to exaggerate the price of your competition's product while taking liberties with the supposed cost savings accruing to those who purchase your own product, but it's wise to regard this tactic with wariness and skepticism. I have some advantage in knowing rather exactly how much it costs to supply electricity to run the pumps in my pool and I'm doubtful that any pump is going to save me "hundreds to thousands of dollars off [my] electric bill annually" unless I forget to install it!

    The other red flag for me was the revival tent enthusiasm evident in the newspaper article. There are few things as unreliable as testimonials. The gushing report of miraculously cleaner water after a fire left me cold. For all I know, this could be the product of the century... along with Oxiclean, 3-minute Abs! and those Amazing Ginzu Knives!

    Quote Originally Posted by salp
    By the way Polyvue... Last I looked The San Diego Union Tribune circulation is about 30,000 higher than your small town Sacramento Bee!
    My bad. The article is in the form of a PDF image file and has been cropped, so I identifed the source based on the website's reference to the paper: "San Diego's North County Edition of Today's Local News." I wasn't aware that this was an edition of the San Diego Union-Tribune. Further, I didn't mean to step on anybody's toes; I didn't connect the dots until this morning that both you and simicrintz are affiliated with the same company (Pool Services Technologies, Inc.) whose website lists Hybrid Pumps as a business partner. (See the link page here.)

    Even if the National Academy of Sciences announces tomorrow that they are awarding a special prize for "truly amazing" energy savings to the proprietors of the X3 Hybrid Pump, I'd still want to read the specification sheet before I purchased it.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
    __
    View of spiral galaxy in Ursa Major NGC6217 - Hubble Telescope 2009

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