Wiring of pump and intermatic Timer.

[zippdroid]

I am not an electrician and I do not plan to do any work myself, but I had an electrician come by yesterday and was not pleased with his work or explanation of anything. I know all of this work should be done by a licensed electrician, I'm just hoping to understand my equipment and connections better.


Pictures are below, but here is my understanding. Please correct me where I am wrong.


Picture 1: 5 electrical boxes. The 2 on the left are my biggest question. Next is the timer, the breaker box, and the transformer for the light.
Picture 2 and 3: Close ups of the 1st two boxes.
Picture 4: The wiring of my Pool timer which powers the pump and will power the heater. 4 wires from the left. 2 red and 2 black. Black is going to Screw 1 and 3, Load 1 and Load 2. 1 Red is going to Screw 4. 1 Red is capped with the White Neutral Wire From the pool pump. From the bottom has 3 wires. White/Neutral (already mentioned), Ground, and Black which goes to Screw 2 or Line 1. The right side has 3 wires coming from the breaker box. Ground, white and black. The white and black go to the Load Screws 1 and 3.
Picture 5: Breaker. The left hole matches the wires above. The right hole is all for the transformer. The bottom hole is the new heater wires (Kind of ignore as it's incorrectly installed and what i'm hoping to hire someone to fix), and the back whole is Black, Red, and White going to the input above the switches and the top right Neutral area.
Photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/YcFgwmL3MRdf2oun8
My questions: 1. Is the Pool timer being powered by both the breaker box and the boxes on the left and both wires are needed to complete the circuit? Cutting the Pump breaker will still kill all the power?

1. Both red wires coming from the left of the timer are Neutral wires? Why is one capped with the white and 1 screwed into the last screw? It seems like the one screwed to nothing should be capped, either separately or bunched with the other Neutrals.
   
2. The pump and the timer are 120 or 240 compatible. It seems like the timer is 240 ready but only pushing out 120 to the pump. Will this cause any harm?
   
3. I need to have a fireman's switch installed to the timer and the heater. Can I leave the Neutral from the heater and the ground from the heater in the breaker box and just push the Purple to the firemans switch on the timer, or should all 3 wires move over to the timer? I have some more Fireman switch questions, but I'll leave it as this for now.

 

[ajw22]

I don't understand the Florida Power Energy Management system to answer your first question.

120V for the pump is okay as long as your pump motor is set for 120V. At 120V it will pull twice as many amps. 240V power requries less amps.

The fireman switch is not connected to the 120V AC power. You need to add this to your timer for the Firemans switch - 156T4042A - Intermatic

 

[zippdroid]

Thank you a ton for the response. I order the Firemans switch yesterday and hoping to have a better understanding of it before it gets here for someone to install. To connect it, I will be connecting one end to Load screw 1, and the other end to the Power(purple/black) wire for the heater correct?

I'm still kind of confused how this switch works since I don't have it in hand. If I connect it like I mention above, and manually turn the timer off, it will also turn off the heater but keep the pump running? Logically it seems like the Fireman switch should be connected to the pump for this to happen.

 

[ajw22]

Thank you a ton for the response. I order the Firemans switch yesterday and hoping to have a better understanding of it before it gets here for someone to install. To connect it, I will be connecting one end to Load screw 1, and the other end to the Power(purple/black) wire for the heater correct?

I'm still kind of confused how this switch works since I don't have it in hand. If I connect it like I mention above, and manually turn the timer off, it will also turn off the heater but keep the pump running? Logically it seems like the Fireman switch should be connected to the pump for this to happen.

What model heater do you have?

The firemans switch is low voltage. You need to pull separate 2 wires in a separate conduit from the timer to the heater. There is a jumper plug in the heater for the fireman's switch. You remove the jumper plug and connect the two wires to it. You connect the other end of the two wires to the microswitch that you install in the timer.

When the timer turns on it also closes the microswitch which allows the heater to run. I think it is 20 minutes before the set time to turn off the pump power the timer opens the microswitch which allows cold water to cool the heater until the pump turns off.

 

[JamesW]

The fireman's switch does not connect to load power. Both wires connect to the fireman's switch at the heater.

The heater will have two terminals connected by a jumper.

You remove the jumper and connect one wire to one terminal and the other wire to the other terminal.

The fireman's switch does not cut power to the heater. The fireman's switch cuts a low voltage signal that tell the heater to turn on or off.

Open equals off and closed means turn on.

The fireman's switch is triggered by the timer mechanism about 15 minutes before the timer turns the pump off.

 

[zippdroid]

What model heater do you have? -- Pentair Mastertemp 250.

I got it and now everything is making sense. Not seeing the inside of the heater or the jumper plug is the piece I have been missing.

I am still a little confusing how this works on the manual level. Right now if I got outside and manually flip the timer to off it instantly shuts off. The heater will be used only for a Spa which I will need to manually change valves and manually turn the timer on when I'm ready. When I install the jumper switch and manually flip the timer to on, everything will turn on, but it will no longer turn everything off right away?

 

[JamesW]

If you flip the timer switch to off, the pump and heater will turn off right away.

If the timer is rotating, it turns the little switch off about 15 minutes before it turns the pump off.

If you're going to turn the pump off manually, it's preferable that you turn the heater off about 5 to 10 minutes before turning the pump off.

 

[zippdroid]

"If you're going to turn the pump off manually, it's preferable that you turn the heater off about 5 to 10 minutes before turning the pump off." That is how it will work 99% of the time as the heater is really just here for the spa. I don't plan on using propane to heat my pool, and if I do it would probably be 1 day out of the year. With that being said, does it still make sense for me to install it to the timer which will turn the unit off and on every day even though I will only be using it a few times a week and it will never be at the same time the pump goes on now?

Currently it's set to it's own breaker and is not connected to the pump or timer at all. If I know that the pump needs to turn on manually before setting the Spa temp and I know that the heater needs to turn off a few minutes before the pump goes off, is there any benefit to connecting it to the timer with the Fireman switch?

 

[JamesW]

If the timer will turn the pump off with the heater running, then the switch makes sense.

If the pump won't turn the pump off with the heater running, then the switch won't help.

 

[Qwijib0]

I
1. Is the Pool timer being powered by both the breaker box and the boxes on the left and both wires are needed to complete the circuit? Cutting the Pump breaker will still kill all the power?

1. Both red wires coming from the left of the timer are Neutral wires? Why is one capped with the white and 1 screwed into the last screw? It seems like the one screwed to nothing should be capped, either separately or bunched with the other Neutrals.
2. The pump and the timer are 120 or 240 compatible. It seems like the timer is 240 ready but only pushing out 120 to the pump. Will this cause any harm?

The energy management box is for the power company to cut power to heavy loads when the grid is stressed. Generally you receive some sort of financial incentive on your bill for letting them do this. The white lead from your pump gets power via the red wire from the energy management box so that the power company can remotely trigger the relay in the box to the far left.

You are currently wired for 240v. The white wire is coming from a two-pole breaker and is the wrong color.