Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31

Thread: Spa plaster flaking

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Palm Springs, CA
    Posts
    24

    Spa plaster flaking

    Last summer a well-meaning friend acid-washed our spa; the plaster on it (and the adjacent pool) are both about 6 or 7 years old. He did not dilute the acid; just poured it right over the plaster and hosed it off rather quickly afterwards.

    A few weeks later the plaster started flaking for about 2-3 months then seemed to stop for a while, then last night some more flakes occurred. It seems to happen or at least get worse when the spa heater is on. Attached is a photo I took this morning. You can see a couple of good-sized plaster chips; the yellowish ones seem to come from the heater (having been "baked" on one side?), and I'm not sure where the smaller pieces are from. Any suggestions?

    And if it is indeed ruined and needs replastering, what is the expected cost for a 5' x 7' inground spa in Southern California?

    Pool water test results:
    FAC 3
    TAC 3
    pH 7.5
    TA 100
    CH 300
    CYA 50
    Salt 2700

    Thanks and Happy New Year!

    John
    Attached Images Attached Images
    18k gallon in ground plaster with attached spa
    Pentair CCP 320 cartridge filter
    Goldline Aqua Rite SWG
    IntelliFlo VS pump
    Teledyne Laars ESC heater
    Hayward Pool Vac Ultra cleaner w/ skimmer Vac Plate and inline leaf basket
    Palm Springs, CA

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Guest

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    Bummer I never recommend an acid wash, and especially never at 100% acid Just a rule of thumb, but a normal acid wash takes roughly 3 years off of the life expectancy of plaster, which only has a 10 year life expectancy anyway! Now you see why I never recommend acid washes!

    Not much you can do at this point, and the heater isn't what did it. It's hard to say from the pic, but you might be seeing some calcium flakes from your salt cell as well; is it plumbed ahead of the spa bypass?

    Here's one other concern: Since you are in Palm Desert, you have to watch when you drain your pool/spa, as the high temps will help to delaminate the plaster. If the pool looks good still, I would try and suck it up in the spa until you need to replaster everything (I am assuming you have a pool and spa). If you have just a spa, it is time to replaster now

    Moral of the story (in a big, loud voice): Don't ever acid wash a plaster pool/spa!

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Palm Springs, CA
    Posts
    24

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    Thank you for your response. The pool has already been drained by 65% (per the online Pool Calculator here) and refilled to bring the CH down to 300. I also wanted to do it during the cool weather as you've mentioned. The salt cell is plumbed after the filter and heater and is clean.

    About how much would you expect the replastering of the spa to cost?
    18k gallon in ground plaster with attached spa
    Pentair CCP 320 cartridge filter
    Goldline Aqua Rite SWG
    IntelliFlo VS pump
    Teledyne Laars ESC heater
    Hayward Pool Vac Ultra cleaner w/ skimmer Vac Plate and inline leaf basket
    Palm Springs, CA

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Guest

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    Quote Originally Posted by josta
    Thank you for your response.

    About how much would you expect the replastering of the spa to cost?
    You are welcome!

    To plaster the spa alone would run close to $2,000.00 (for white plaster). If you did the spa at the same time as the pool, the cost to add the spa to the job would be about $800.00. It pays to wait and have it all done at the same time!

    PM me if you want (I may be able to help as I am in your area) to talk and I will see if I can point you in the right direction!

  5. Back To Top    #5
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    9,910

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    Leslie's carries a plaster patch product that could be used to patch the areas until you are ready to do the whole pool.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater, ThePoolCleaner

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Palm Springs, CA
    Posts
    24

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    Thanks for the replies; not sure if I was real clear on that but the flakes occur only when the spa heater is on. When it's off, no flaking occurs. Could the hot water cause the spa plaster to flake more?
    18k gallon in ground plaster with attached spa
    Pentair CCP 320 cartridge filter
    Goldline Aqua Rite SWG
    IntelliFlo VS pump
    Teledyne Laars ESC heater
    Hayward Pool Vac Ultra cleaner w/ skimmer Vac Plate and inline leaf basket
    Palm Springs, CA

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Central NJ
    Posts
    3,192

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    If there is no visible damage to the spa, then the flakes are from the heater and salt cell.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Palm Springs, CA
    Posts
    24

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    Thanks, Scott. The salt cell is clean, so how do I handle the flakes from the heater?
    18k gallon in ground plaster with attached spa
    Pentair CCP 320 cartridge filter
    Goldline Aqua Rite SWG
    IntelliFlo VS pump
    Teledyne Laars ESC heater
    Hayward Pool Vac Ultra cleaner w/ skimmer Vac Plate and inline leaf basket
    Palm Springs, CA

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Palm Springs, CA
    Posts
    24

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    Did some more research online; the flakes coming out of the heater is more common than I thought. I learned to first try using Scaletec, and run it through the jacuzzi (bypassing the pool) for a few days and that should loosen the calcium flakes in the heater.

    (To test if it is indeed calcium flakes, drop some flakes in a capful of acid. If it bubbles away, then it's calcium.)

    And, the article continues, if the Scaletec does not work, then lower the pH (in just the jacuzzi) to 6.0, zero out the chlorine, and run it a few days until the flakes stop coming out. Then drain and refill the jacuzzi.

    That kind of makes sense.....anybody want to comment or warn me?

    JOHN
    18k gallon in ground plaster with attached spa
    Pentair CCP 320 cartridge filter
    Goldline Aqua Rite SWG
    IntelliFlo VS pump
    Teledyne Laars ESC heater
    Hayward Pool Vac Ultra cleaner w/ skimmer Vac Plate and inline leaf basket
    Palm Springs, CA

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Palm Springs, CA
    Posts
    24

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    Ok, what I did I added a double dose of Scaletec to the jacuzzi alone, and circulated it (jacuzzi only) for three days. Drained the jacuzzi, cleaned the filter and SWG but still have the white flakes floating around in there.

    Someone suggested the next step I should try is to first zero out the chlorine, drop the pH to 6.0, and repeat the above step. I also wonder if I should have the pool heater manifold manually cleaned out...any suggestions?
    18k gallon in ground plaster with attached spa
    Pentair CCP 320 cartridge filter
    Goldline Aqua Rite SWG
    IntelliFlo VS pump
    Teledyne Laars ESC heater
    Hayward Pool Vac Ultra cleaner w/ skimmer Vac Plate and inline leaf basket
    Palm Springs, CA

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Central NJ
    Posts
    3,192

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    1) How old is the heater?

    2) How high and for how long was the calcium level too high?

    If the heater is only a few years old, your plan may be best. If the heater is like 10 or so, then it might not be worth the money and could open an expensive can of worms.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Palm Springs, CA
    Posts
    24

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    The CH was at 390 before I partially drained and refilled the pool, and the heater is about 10 years old but has not been used much. I'm not sure how long the CH was at this level, perhaps several months to a year?

    I did not have this problem until my friend acid-washed our jacuzzi with its 7-year old plaster. And now the flakes come out whether or not the heater is on.
    18k gallon in ground plaster with attached spa
    Pentair CCP 320 cartridge filter
    Goldline Aqua Rite SWG
    IntelliFlo VS pump
    Teledyne Laars ESC heater
    Hayward Pool Vac Ultra cleaner w/ skimmer Vac Plate and inline leaf basket
    Palm Springs, CA

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Guest

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    How "old" was your water when you had the acid wash done, and why did you decide to acid wash? How did you check you Calcium Hardness level?

    The hardness level you are posting seems kinda low to me for your area. I know how hard our water is so I question that figure a bit!

    If the flakes are in the heater, it really doesn't matter if you isolate the spa or not. The water runs through the heater any time the pump is running, so those flakes are in the pool or the spa, depending on where you are returning the water. Good chance that your pool cleaner is getting the material in the pool and you are just seeing it in the spa because there is nothing in there to pick it up.

    Calcium Hardness causes damage to more than people think. It attaches to pump shafts, heat exchangers, salt cells, waterline areas, etc. It makes it difficult for chemicals to work when the water gets too hard. I see people every day that have 10 year old plus water and they can't figure out why they can't keep their pool clean or why they can't control their algae! We just happen to live in a part of the country that has extremely hard water, and with the drought conditions and lower water levels in the Colorado River we are drawing more from the "bottom" of the river, and the concentrations are greater.

    Good luck!

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Palm Springs, CA
    Posts
    24

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    Good morning, Bruce

    The water was about 5 years old, and we had the jacuzzi (only) acid-washed due to stains on it. I had Leslie's check the CH.

    Let me PM you....

    JOHN
    18k gallon in ground plaster with attached spa
    Pentair CCP 320 cartridge filter
    Goldline Aqua Rite SWG
    IntelliFlo VS pump
    Teledyne Laars ESC heater
    Hayward Pool Vac Ultra cleaner w/ skimmer Vac Plate and inline leaf basket
    Palm Springs, CA

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Palm Springs, CA
    Posts
    24

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    How can I tell if the flakes floating around are scale or bits of plaster; will it bubble when put in acid if it's plaster?
    18k gallon in ground plaster with attached spa
    Pentair CCP 320 cartridge filter
    Goldline Aqua Rite SWG
    IntelliFlo VS pump
    Teledyne Laars ESC heater
    Hayward Pool Vac Ultra cleaner w/ skimmer Vac Plate and inline leaf basket
    Palm Springs, CA

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Central NJ
    Posts
    3,192

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    If the flakes were plaster, you see the missing sections, especially for the larger ones.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  17. Back To Top    #17

    In the Industry
    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    28,398

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    will it bubble when put in acid if it's plaster?
    Yes, but so will the scale.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Central Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,677

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    Quote Originally Posted by simicrintz

    I see people every day that have 10 year old plus water and they can't figure out why they can't keep their pool clean or why they can't control their algae! !
    Can you explain why "old" water causes algea to get out of control? I was under the impression that out of control algea is caused by lack of chlorine.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Central NJ
    Posts
    3,192

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    I have never heard that one before.

    Pool water is either properly balanced or it isn't. Properly balanced water is highly unlikely to get out of control algae or other biological contaminations. Balancing is more than just chlorine levels. Please read the subsections in Swimming Pool Care and you will gain a much better understanding of your pools needs and why it needs the things that it needs.

    A pool's surfaces still needs care, in addition to the water balancing. Regular vacuuming and brushing, emptying baskets, adequate filter cycles all contribute to a clean and healthy pool.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Guest

    Re: Spa plaster flaking

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    Quote Originally Posted by simicrintz

    I see people every day that have 10 year old plus water and they can't figure out why they can't keep their pool clean or why they can't control their algae! !
    Can you explain why "old" water causes algea to get out of control? I was under the impression that out of control algea is caused by lack of chlorine.

    Old water, in this area, gets extremely high levels of calcium, and it is impossible to keep chlorine levels and water balance in a hard water pool. The sanitizer cannot get "through" the hardness well enough to assimilate in to the water efficiently. This is why pool water is suggested to remain in a 200-400 ppm range for calcium hardness.

    Water that has 1,000+ ppm water is just too "old" and hard and needs to be drained (or treated). Way too hard to control algae and maintain proper levels of sanitizer in that hard of water.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •