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Thread: Intermatic T104

  1. Back To Top    #21

    Re: Intermatic T104

    There is only one 240 volt breaker. It's 50 amps, so that might be a heat pump or hot tub?

    The subpanel was probably installed by the old homeowner with no permit.

    The pumps don't look like they are properly bonded. I don't see any bond wires.

    I would recommend that you get an electrician to check everything because there are multiple unsafe conditions.
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  2. Back To Top    #22


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    Re: Intermatic T104

    You have two pumps on your pool pad. A black pump and a blue pump. How are each of them powered?
    -Allen
    IG 20x50 35,000 gal Cayman Lagoon Hydrazoo plaster w/ spa & waterfall, Pentair Intellichlor SWG, Pentair Mastertemp 400BTU Nat Gas Heater, Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE Filter, Polaris 380 cleaner, Meyco solid winter cover, TF100 Test Kit, Built in 2000 & replastered in 2017

  3. Back To Top    #23

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    Re: Intermatic T104

    Is this panel on an outbuilding, not physically connected to the main house? If so, and if it was installed longer than I think 10 years ago, the 3-wire feed and bonded neutral/ground would have been code compliant at the time and still legal. If more recent, current code would have 4 big wires coming from the main panel and the neutral/ground separated (and if it's a subpanel in the same building the code back then would have too).

    Which specific handle cut the power to the pump -- the 2nd from the left that has a red wire coming from it (the leftmost double breaker, the right handle of that breaker)? And which handle cuts power to the other red wire -- I'm guessing the rightmost handle of the rightmost double breaker just from the wire color shade?

    That's definitely wrong for a 240V setup, as both of the red wires come from the same leg of the incoming feed (and even if they weren't, 240V breaker handles must be tied together). Properly supplying 240V would require a tandem breaker like this (just an example, need one that's listed for the specific panel): https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...20CP/100186179. The middle two handles and terminals would supply the pump, and the outer two would be independent 120V circuits so there'd still be enough circuits.

    However, changing breakers like this is beyond my DIY comfort level especially for a pool area, and doing so legally might require permits and worst case whatever's needed to get a 4th wire from the main panel if has to be updated to new code. An electrician would be a must to do anything further there.

    Since it does appear to be a 20 Amp circuit with 12 gauge wire, the simplest answer is to just get the T101 timer as you mentioned and make the whole pump setup 120V. From the wiring diagram at https://www.intermatic.com/-/media/i...nstructions-EN, you'd wire it as such:

    Ground: Same as current timer
    Terminal A (neutral): Connected to the silver and white wires (neutral coming in, and neutral going to the pump). You can put both wires under the same screw.
    Terminal 1 (line): Connected to one of the inbound red wires that's connected to the current timer. Cap the other inbound red wire with a wire nut, and turn off/mark the corresponding breaker in the panel.
    Terminal 2 (load): Connected to the blue wire going to the pump

    Editing to add -- I agree with others that having an electrician that has worked with pools come take a look would be a wise and safe thing to do.
    21000gal IG plaster, Sacramento CA area (late 1950s/early 60s)
    Filter: Cartridge, Pentair CCP420 (2014)
    Main pump: Pentair IntelliFlo VS (2015)
    Boost pump: 3/4hp (2011), Polaris 280 cleaner (unknown age)

  4. Back To Top    #24


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    Re: Intermatic T104

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    There is only one 240 volt breaker. It's 50 amps, so that might be a heat pump or hot tub?
    Not that I think it matters but that 240V breaker looks to be 60 amps, not 50 amps.

    2018-12-05_1257.jpg
    -Allen
    IG 20x50 35,000 gal Cayman Lagoon Hydrazoo plaster w/ spa & waterfall, Pentair Intellichlor SWG, Pentair Mastertemp 400BTU Nat Gas Heater, Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE Filter, Polaris 380 cleaner, Meyco solid winter cover, TF100 Test Kit, Built in 2000 & replastered in 2017

  5. Back To Top    #25

    Re: Intermatic T104

    Quote Originally Posted by ajw22 View Post
    Not that I think it matters but that 240V breaker looks to be 60 amps, not 50 amps.

    2018-12-05_1257.jpg
    Ok, I can see 60 now. That's a lot of power. Definitely need to know what that goes to.

    In any case, I think that it's time for an electrician to check this out.

    In my opinion, the original work was done by someone who did not know what they were doing.
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  6. Back To Top    #26


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    Re: Intermatic T104

    Quote Originally Posted by jmastron View Post
    I

    That's definitely wrong for a 240V setup, as both of the red wires come from the same leg of the incoming feed (and even if they weren't, 240V breaker handles must be tied together). Properly supplying 240V would require a tandem breaker like this (just an example, need one that's listed for the specific panel): https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...20CP/100186179. The middle two handles and terminals would supply the pump, and the outer two would be independent 120V circuits so there'd still be enough circuits.

    However, changing breakers like this is beyond my DIY comfort level especially for a pool area, and doing so legally might require permits and worst case whatever's needed to get a 4th wire from the main panel if has to be updated to new code. An electrician would be a must to do anything further there.
    I didn't know about that type of quad CB. I hang out here to learn things like this.

    The OP already has 140 amps of breakers in that panel. I would want to know what the feed breaker and wiring to that panel is. Putting a quad in that raises the capacity of the panel to 160 Amps would not be wise until all the loads and the feed capacity is known. It is likely that most of those 20 amp circuits don't carry anywhere near 20 amps. Another reason to get an electricians review of that setup.
    -Allen
    IG 20x50 35,000 gal Cayman Lagoon Hydrazoo plaster w/ spa & waterfall, Pentair Intellichlor SWG, Pentair Mastertemp 400BTU Nat Gas Heater, Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE Filter, Polaris 380 cleaner, Meyco solid winter cover, TF100 Test Kit, Built in 2000 & replastered in 2017

  7. Back To Top    #27

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    Re: Intermatic T104

    Blue pump is the well pump for the sprinklers .
    15000 gal, IG - plaster
    Filter: Pentair cc150 cartridge
    Pump: Hayward Super pump 1HP c48k2n143b1

  8. Back To Top    #28

    Re: Intermatic T104

    Do you know what the 60 amp breaker goes to?
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  9. Back To Top    #29

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    Re: Intermatic T104

    Not really . Let me see if I can trace it somehow tomorrow just from curiosity .
    15000 gal, IG - plaster
    Filter: Pentair cc150 cartridge
    Pump: Hayward Super pump 1HP c48k2n143b1

  10. Back To Top    #30

    Re: Intermatic T104

    Just to emphasize, you really need to get this checked by an electrician.

    I don't think that anything is grounded or bonded, which makes it very dangerous.

    I suspect that the previous homeowner probably did a lot of work on the house with no permits or professional help.

    I suspect that you are going to find a lot of unpermitted work that was not done correctly and it's going to cause you a lot of problems.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the pool was done without a permit.
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  11. Back To Top    #31

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    Re: Intermatic T104

    I connected the timer at 120v and now is working fine. Though I will bring an electrician as discussed to check on everything. Thanks
    15000 gal, IG - plaster
    Filter: Pentair cc150 cartridge
    Pump: Hayward Super pump 1HP c48k2n143b1

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