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Thread: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

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    Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    Hello everyone. Happy New Year.

    I have an Intermatic Digital Timer (1353 ME) that has worked fine for the last year. I purchased an Intermatic actuator and Valve/Pump switch (model P4243ME). I am having a bear of a time getting this to work.

    Basic problem is that the timer CANNOT turn the Valve/Pump switch on and off. The valve/pump switch is always turned on whether I turn the circuit on or off at the time. I can turn to actuator clockwise/counter clockwise manually with the white button on the front of the valve/pump switch.

    I have been on the phone with Intermatic for a few hours and they want me to call back Monday and speak with an engineer. This is very frustrating and I am starting to feel stupid for not purchasing a more expensive Pentair product that work better.

    Anyone have experience with this???
    35,000 gal pool, Pebble-Tec, Pentair VF pump, DE filter, Aqua Rite SWG, Pentair Minimax Heater in Southern California

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    Guest

    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    Can you post a wiring diagram of your connections for both?

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    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    What is the valve actuator supposed to be controlling?

    Scott

    PS I don't like the Intermatic web site. The layout is not very user friendly. The manual for the original poster's products, when printed is so small, I could not read it. When I viewed it with a pdf viewer, I had to go to 200% and rotate it repeatedly.
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    In terms of a wiring diagram, I can't figure out how to paste the image onto this reply. Briefly, I have 220 volts coming into the timer compartment, attached to terminals 1 and 2 of the Intermatic timer, P1353ME.

    Short story: I have the valve/pump switch mechanism, model P4243ME wired EXACTLY as the manual states and I have confirmed this with Intermatic technical support.

    Long story: The valve/pump switch mechanism, model P4243ME has connections to its transformer using the red and black wires, which I have connected to terminals 1 and 2, respectively. The master switch station of the P4243ME has black/white wires, one of which is attached to terminal 1 (thus connected to the red wire), and the other black/white wire is attached to the load side of circuit 1, which is terminal 4. I have a jumper from terminal 2 to terminal 3.

    The actuator is connected to the P4243ME, and it is intended to sit on top of a typical Jandy 3 way valve. Problem is that the timer will not turn off/on the P4243ME. It always stays on. It cannot properly control the actuator.

    Anyone have any experience with this???
    35,000 gal pool, Pebble-Tec, Pentair VF pump, DE filter, Aqua Rite SWG, Pentair Minimax Heater in Southern California

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    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    Sounds like you need this manual:

    http://www.poolandspacontrols.com/~/med ... 3RCT3.ashx

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Guest

    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    I agree with Scott, that manual should do the trick!

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    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    First thank you for posting the link to this manual. This basically explains how to use the three components together (the time, the valve/pump switch and the actuator). I purchased all three of these individually and had to invest a lot of time learning how to connect these.

    Having said that, there is only half a page (the bottom of page 38) that discusses simply controllong an actuator with the timer. Thus does not help all that much.

    Hopefully I can get an engineer at Intermatic on Monday who can help.
    35,000 gal pool, Pebble-Tec, Pentair VF pump, DE filter, Aqua Rite SWG, Pentair Minimax Heater in Southern California

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    tsunami's Avatar
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    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    Quote Originally Posted by sjsoldo
    The actuator is connected to the P4243ME, and it is intended to sit on top of a typical Jandy 3 way valve. Problem is that the timer will not turn off/on the P4243ME. It always stays on. It cannot properly control the actuator.

    Anyone have any experience with this???
    I don't have any experience with this, but I take it that you haven't actually mounted it to the 3 way valve. Maybe that's the missing piece to the puzzle. Maybe it needs to be mounted to work properly?
    40 X 26 Free Form Pool with attached 9 X 7 Spa raised 18" with 8 Jets and Spillover, and an Art Rock Waterfall/Grotto with accent rocks, 26,000 gallons
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    Pebble Tec Tropical Breeze Tsunami's Pool Build

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    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    No has nothing to do with it. The actuator should turn when the timer tells it to, whether or not it is actually connected to a valve. Is not that smart...
    35,000 gal pool, Pebble-Tec, Pentair VF pump, DE filter, Aqua Rite SWG, Pentair Minimax Heater in Southern California

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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    Quote Originally Posted by sjsoldo
    No has nothing to do with it. The actuator should turn when the timer tells it to, whether or not it is actually connected to a valve. Is not that smart...
    It seems you may not get an answer to your well-articulated question before you speak with Intermatic again. Sorry I can't be of any help on this subject but please do post back when you have devised a solution so that current and future members reading this thread who have the same or similar problem can benefit. Your frustration can at least be turned into someone else's Aha! moment.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    Let's hope so...this is killing me...I've spent so much time trying to make this work...feel like an idiot...
    35,000 gal pool, Pebble-Tec, Pentair VF pump, DE filter, Aqua Rite SWG, Pentair Minimax Heater in Southern California

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    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    Having read the manual, I don't think you can set the valve actuators to trip via the timer. It seems that Intermatic intended them for use with their remote (wired or wireless) which requires a manual intervention, i.e. pushing the button on the remote or on the timer in the control panel, only for the purpose of switching to spa or back to pool mode.

    Their tech writer, engineering, and product marketing manager were not on the same page in so far as to how suction side and non-booster powered pressure side cleaners work or pool plumbing for that matter, as the diagrams they use in multi-pump scenarios are very flawed.

    The bottom line is that I don't believe that this combination of product will work for you. I hope I am wrong.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    There are several hints in the manual that it is possible to get the timer to switch one of the actuators, but they never seem to explain exactly what to do to make that happen. My reading of the manual suggests that you use one of the relays in the timer to switch between pool and spa mode as if it was a simple toggle switch wired to the sensor input, as described on page 38. Of course, doing that "uses up" the pool/spa mode distinction, since the wired remote feature is designed to toggle between pool and spa mode, so this is useless if you want to use the system as a pool/spa mode switcher at the same time. The part that gets confusing is that there are two sensor inputs and they never really explain which is which or exactly how they work.

    Can you confirm that you are able to get the actuator to move when pressing the membrane switch directly on the controller as described in the actuator setup section?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    First, thank all of you for reading the manual for me. Really nice of you.

    Yes, pressing the membrane swtich on the face of the unit will turn the actuator in the reverse direction it went with the last movement.

    You are correct in that the manual does not explicitly explain how to set this up, but I did call Intermatic prior to the purchase and they made it clear that it would work for this.

    If I learn how to remedy this, I'll post it to this thread. I had hoped that some other poor soul went through this agonizing process and was able to find a solution.
    35,000 gal pool, Pebble-Tec, Pentair VF pump, DE filter, Aqua Rite SWG, Pentair Minimax Heater in Southern California

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    New2Me's Avatar
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    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    The master switch station of the P4243ME has black/white wires, one of which is attached to terminal 1 (thus connected to the red wire), and the other black/white wire is attached to the load side of circuit 1, which is terminal 4. I have a jumper from terminal 2 to terminal 3.
    The actuator works, so you got that right! Per note 4 for the P4243ME, it looks to me like you need to break the power feed(red and black, white unused for 220) to the transformer to turn it off as a Remote Master Switch. The instructions should probably say "Ignore Note 1" as the first line of Note 4. The way you have it, it stays HOT all of the time. The timer should interrupt the red lead through the Blk/Whts.
    Good Luck and Best Wishes!
    22 x 40 IG vinyl lined, 23,570 gal.
    1 hp. Pac-Fab Challenger pump 300# sand filter
    Intex 8110 SWG, Hayward CL220 offline feeder
    Hayward 250K Btu gas heater
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  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    Your suggestion is intruiging. Let me give it a try in the morning...
    35,000 gal pool, Pebble-Tec, Pentair VF pump, DE filter, Aqua Rite SWG, Pentair Minimax Heater in Southern California

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    Tried this. Did not work. With this configuaration, swtiching the circuit on and off with the timer will turn on the 4243ME on and off, but will not reverse the actuator when it switches on and off. It looks like constant power has to be going to the unit and the black/white wires need to be interuppted to reverse the direction of the actuator from its last roatation.

    I'm currently on hold with Intermatic.
    35,000 gal pool, Pebble-Tec, Pentair VF pump, DE filter, Aqua Rite SWG, Pentair Minimax Heater in Southern California

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    New2Me's Avatar
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    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    Did they tell you to check and make sure that jumper J1 is on pins 1-2? Hope it was something simple like that!
    Good Luck, and Best Wishes!
    22 x 40 IG vinyl lined, 23,570 gal.
    1 hp. Pac-Fab Challenger pump 300# sand filter
    Intex 8110 SWG, Hayward CL220 offline feeder
    Hayward 250K Btu gas heater
    Aquabots

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    Jumpers are in the right position.

    They think my timer may be the issue but I am not sure why. They may send me another one, and I will try that. If I ever get a solution I will post it...
    35,000 gal pool, Pebble-Tec, Pentair VF pump, DE filter, Aqua Rite SWG, Pentair Minimax Heater in Southern California

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    New2Me's Avatar
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    Re: Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

    I was wondering if you have gotten any help from Intermatic yet. I was looking back over your posts, and I keep getting myself confused about the connections.
    You had a stand alone P1353ME timer that controlled your pump fine.
    You are adding a P4243ME Valve/Pump switch mechanism, that you want to change the valve position using the SAME circuit as the pump?
    1.You have two power wires coming to your equipment(Black-120vL1, Red-120vL2.)
    2. The P1353ME timer has Black and Red wires on terminals #1(L1) and #2(L2), which also go to the Black and Red transformer connections of the P4243ME. There is a red(L2) jumper wire from P1353ME terminal #2 to P1353ME terminal #3(line). P1353ME Terminal #4(load) is connected to your pump red wire(L2). The pump black wire (L1) is connected to P1353ME terminal #1.
    The timer turns the pump on and off correctly?

    3. The P4243ME controls the valve with the front panel membrane switch, changing valve position and illuminating the indicator light?

    4. One of the Blk/Wht sensor wires of the P4243ME is connected to P1353ME terminal #1(L1), and the other is connected to P1353ME terminal #4(load), just like the pump.

    The P1353ME still controls the pump on and off, but does not change the valve(s)/indicator lights?

    Can you wire the P4243ME to Circuit #2 of P1353ME (jumper wire from terminal #2(L2) to terminal #5, P4243ME Blk/wht's to terminals #1(L1) and #6) to see if the parallel connection of the pump motor is a problem?

    If P4243ME Jumper J1 is not missing, but is placed on pins 1-2 it should work, or P4243ME is defective.
    There is nothing wrong with P1353ME if it opens and closes circuits.
    Good Luck, and Best Wishes!
    22 x 40 IG vinyl lined, 23,570 gal.
    1 hp. Pac-Fab Challenger pump 300# sand filter
    Intex 8110 SWG, Hayward CL220 offline feeder
    Hayward 250K Btu gas heater
    Aquabots

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