new plaster streaked - is this how it is with plaster

engrav

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Jul 4, 2012
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Whidbey Island, WA
Hi
So am having the old pool re-plastered. We like the guys, we like the color, we like the startup procedure. But...
The plaster is quite streaked. See pics attached.

I am aware that plaster is not paint, is an imperfect media, but...
Is this much streaking "normal"?
Thank you.
 

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Hi

Have now found many posts on TFP of similar issues. But no clear statement of "cause" if there is a "cause". Maybe this is how plaster is.

Does anyone have pics of new, dark blue plaster without streaks?

Thanks
 
Yes, others have had similar problems. No, it's not normal (or in my opinion, acceptable). There are many possible causes, most avoidable (too much CaCl2 in the plaster mix, improper trowelling, improper filling, etc), some unavoidable (wether related, etc). I'd discuss with the pool builder/plaster as I would be extremely unhappy with that finish.
 
No expert here, but I would consider that a defect in material and/or workmanship (probably both). And I would expect that to be redone under warranty. And I would demand a different, better crew perform the work.

Plaster does mottle over time. Mine is already, and it's just over a year old. So you have to expect and accept that. But you have to really look for it to see it, and it mostly shows up under certain lighting conditions. That's not what's going on in your pool.

A word of caution: if he's like most PBs, he'll first try to convince you to let him acid wash your pool. And acid washing is a legitimate part of new installations of aggregate-type pool surface (like pebble). But if it's plaster, or pebble that has already had its initial acid wash, then I wouldn't permit this solution. Not without a very significant reduction is price. Acid washing works by removing plaster and taking offending stains with it. If you allow an acid wash, you're going to end up with less plaster than you started with, paid for. Great quickie solution for the PB/plasterer, because they can drive away and forget about your pool. But years from now, when your finish is aging and it's no longer under warranty, you're going to miss that missing plaster! Why should you pay later, with years, or even months, of longevity, for their mistake.
 
This is completely normal when first filled its call modeling as long as your start up company does a proper job balancing your chems i'd recommend doing a "Hot start up" it will come out fine

I'll be very happy for the OP if I'm proven wrong.

engrav, let me see if I can get one of our experts to have a look...
 
If dark color plaster has definitive white streaks after being filled with water, then that is not a good plaster job.
It is also not a good idea to do any kind of acid treatment (or "hot" startup) to remove the white discoloration. That will only serve to shorten the life-span of the plaster finish by many years by severely etching the plaster. AND... the whitish streaks will most likely develop and return again after the acid treatment is performed.

See this post for a similar issue with your plaster finish.
White Spotting of New Plaster Pools
 
If dark color plaster has definitive white streaks after being filled with water, then that is not a good plaster job.
It is also not a good idea to do any kind of acid treatment (or "hot" startup) to remove the white discoloration. That will only serve to shorten the life-span of the plaster finish by many years by severely etching the plaster. AND... the whitish streaks will most likely develop and return again after the acid treatment is performed.
See this post for a similar issue with your plaster finish.
White Spotting of New Plaster Pools

Thank you
Is interesting
But I don't really have "spotting:" I have streaks and the company person doing the daily startup chores calls them "trowel marks" or "cream marks".
And
This situation was evident in pic #2, midway through the fill, before water reached the affected plaster, not days/weeks/months later.
And
What is a "hot startup"? This company is doing the Orenda startup which is all the usual stuff but calcium before alkalinity before pH before chlorine.

Values today on postfill day #8 were
company values temp 47 FC 0 pH 8 CH 290 TA 130 CYA 0 LSI .29 (just in the green which is "good" with the Orenda app) CSI.39
my values temp 47 FC 0 pH 7.8 CH 330 TA 180 CYA 0 LSI also .29 CSI .37

Also emailing with a responsive fellow at the NPC (National Plasterers Council) who said it is too early to know if you have discoloration. Sort of implies I should have a martini and chill. Or maybe have a swim and chill, and at water temp 47 degrees I would have a chill.:D


Thank you.
 
Your water balance is good.

A hot start up is an acid treatment (adding several gallons of muriatic acid), making the water very aggressive for a few days.
The Orenda startup is a preferred way to balance new pool water.

White streaking and spotting are similar to each other and are caused by improper troweling issues. It is mostly a matter of severity, timing, and techniques.
Picture #1 looks normal to me, but #2 and #3 do not.

There is no rush on this issue, and I agree that waiting a few weeks to see what happens with the plaster color is appropriate before any decisions are made.
Has there been any change or improvement to the white streaking after 8 days?
 
Good morning and thank you

Nice morning out here to think about streaks (pic below). Clear and crisp.

Pic #1 normal but #2 and #3 not normal?
Since streaks were present before water hit the affected plaster in pic #2, then I wonder if the cold ambient temps out here played a role. Temps were low 34 high 48 during plaster and fill. And pool gets no sun in mid-November.

Improvement after 8 days?
Today is post fill day 9 so then too early to know.

IMG_1690.jpg
 

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Yes, freezing temps can cause plaster damage and discoloration. But it does have to actually freeze the water within the plaster coat to be detrimental.

thanks

well was low 34 so close but no cigar
of course there is wind chill, but maybe not much wind chill 4 or 5' below ground level

so I guess just hang out and see what happens
 
Hi
Now 32 days post fill. Essentially nothing as changed. CSi/LSI 0 to .3. Lotsa brushing. Again these issues were not present in the plaster when it was first applied, only after final troweling and before any fill.

DSC_5923.jpg

DSC_5926.jpg

DSC_5925.jpg
 
I can't say how normal it is, but the pics in my build thread in posts 55 and 56 look practically identical to yours. My plaster was Portland cement, marble dust and Diamond Bright (Onyx - black). So what you would call tinted or colored plaster.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/53452-Pool-Build-Baltimore?p=489200&viewfull=1#post489200

I'd say the effect has faded over time and was probably similar to yours at the 30 day stage. Again, that doesn't make it right, but I also liked the look and embraced it as "varied" and natural looking, especially when not staring at it.
 
I can't say how normal it is, but the pics in my build thread in posts 55 and 56 look practically identical to yours.

Thank you.
Is true, they are similar.
And I have assembled 15 pics from the web of outcomes quite similar to yours so it must be rather "normal". To be embraced.
But
I think yours is more globular, more fuzzy, more random (see my pic 3 in post 1 which is quite "streaky").

And
I am just brushing balancing and waiting but
am also studying up.

I have two queries
1) what was the ambient temperature during your plaster and fill? looks warm guys in T-shirts
why do I ask? temp at picture 1 post 1 was 52 degrees, temp at pic 2 post 1 was 33 degrees
and so am wondering if cold ambient temps were involved

and for any all
2) when does normal mottling appear?
during plastering
during fill
during startup
all of there above

Thanks again
 
1) what was the ambient temperature during your plaster and fill? looks warm guys in T-shirts
why do I ask? temp at picture 1 post 1 was 52 degrees, temp at pic 2 post 1 was 33 degrees
and so am wondering if cold ambient temps were involved

High of 83 and low of 63 and no rain. Weather details courtesy of my brother’s Davis weather system.
 
The 3rd picture in post #13 looks awful. Terrible. Ugly. If that was my plaster, I’d demand a re-do. Just one recently re-plastered guy’s humble opinion.
 
The 3rd picture in post #13 looks awful. Terrible. Ugly. If that was my plaster, I’d demand a re-do. Just one recently re-plastered guy’s humble opinion.
Hi
Might do that but trying to avoid this sequence
I say it is unattractive
he say that is normal mottling
repeat over and over
and re-plaster is no small task
so am waiting watching balancing brushing gathering info

is clear there is such a thing as normal mottling
has gathered many web pics of same to determine is this different

still would like to know when does normal mottling appear?
and
is no heater/tent with temp of 33 before complete fill a violation of standard practice?

thanks all
 
I think there is a need to recognize that there are two main types of "mottling."
One is "gray" mottling of white plaster. See my link on gray mottling.
Then there is "white" mottling, or white streaking and spotting of colored pigmented plaster, which is what has happened to this pool.
There is also "extreme" white streaking and spotting of "white" plaster which is essentially the same as to what occurs to colored plaster pools.
See my link above in post #7 for this pool's problem.

Both types of mottling (white mottling or streaking, and gray mottling) can develop and appear immediately, or become visible and increase significantly for months afterwards. Normal and minor mottling (of both white and colored plaster) usually appears immediately, but can and may slowly fade over time.
However, the abnormal white or gray mottling that is due from poor workmanship generally increases and becomes worse over time. I believe that the whitish streaks of this pool will continue to get worse, or better (more visible) if one likes this kind of mottling.

The standard regarding temperature is that the ambient temperature is to be above 40 degrees F and the temperature of the substrate should be above 32 degrees F.

But the bottom line is that the white streaking means that the plaster surface (in those areas) has been compromised and is slowly deteriorating. There is color loss and material loss.

Based on the photos and my understanding, I suspect that because the temperature was cold, that too much calcium chloride was added to the plaster mix to accelerate the hardening process. But that would have to be determined by analysis. Further, it also appears that the plaster walls were troweled using excessive amounts of water added while troweling late in the process. That is what causes a weakness of the plaster surface to develop and turn whitish.
 

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