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Thread: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

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    About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    Hey all!

    Hoping to get your opinions on the proposed equipment before i sign the contract for our pool build. They will also be installing a waterfall.

    We are located in Toronto, Canada and will be having a fiberglass 'Key West' Viking Pool (approx 7000 gal) installed in Spring.

    The builder says we would not need to have the pool binded as there is no metal/stairs being used. Is this true? Any thoughts on this?

    The pool builder has put the following equipment together. I tried to keep all equipment to Pentair to keep automation working nicely together based on recommendations in this forum
    Pump: Pentair VS 3.00HP Intelliflo
    Computer: Pentair EasyTouch 4
    Salt Cell: Pentair Intellichlor
    Pool Heater: Pentair Mastertemp 250000 BTU gas heater (he initially quoted a Ray Pak 266000BTU heater for the same price)
    Screenlogic: Screenlogic 2
    Cartridge Filter: Pentair Clean and Clear Plus
    Lights: Pentair Globrites (he initially quoted FiberStar 12V LED Colorsmart bulbs). I requested Pentair lights to keep all equipment Pentair, but Globrites are apparently for shallow water and shelves. Builder says they will be fine in my pool as it is a relatively small one. Also, he says that the FiberStar lights that he quoted are much easier to replace than the Globrites. I asked him about Pentair Intellibrite 5G lights, but he seemed to downtalk them a little bit. I've read somewhere that we would need to have the pool binded if we use these ones. Any thoughts on light selection?

    For backfill he wil be using 'hpb'.

    Any suggestions/thoughts would be definitely appreciated.

    Thanks!!!

    Tom

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    Switch back to the RayPak heater. It will still work with the automation and is more recommended by members of the forum.
    What size SWG?
    What size filter?

    You still need bonding of all the surrounding ground/decking and the water ... and any metal within 5 feet of the water.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    Ontario's electrical safety code guidelines for pool/spa installations - Pool Spa Marketing

    Rule 68-058 establishes requirements for an equipotential bonding plane for the metal parts of a pool and associated metal parts of non-electrical equipment and non-current carrying metal parts of electrical equipment with a copper bonding conductor that is

    a minimum No.6 AWG for permanently installed pools, or as per Table 16 for all other pools
    bonded at a minimum of four connection points around the perimeter of pool reinforcing steel (for non-conductive encapsulated steel, alternate means of eliminating voltage gradients must be made) bonded to at least one location for continuous bolted or welded together metal panel pools a separate bonding conductor from metal sheaths and raceways, run from the panel board to a junction box with a minimum No.6 AWG or installed and mechanically protected in the same manner as the circuit conductors

    Guide to the Canadian Electrical Code, Part I — Instalment 34
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    Re: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    Thank you both for the responses! Not sure of the filter and SWG sizes; the links are what i got from the PB:/ But i will email him back and ask.

    As well, would the bonding requirement change as the pool is fibreglass? The electrical code speaks of 'pool reinforcing steel' which i imagine is in reference to steel/liner pools?

    Thoughts?

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    Re: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    Pentair has new led's worth looking into, I just intalled globrites had no idea there were new ones.
    Microbrites: MicroBriteâ„¢ Color and White LED Lights - Pentair
    And there's a new automation intellicenter (didn't know either) : IntelliCenter™ Control System for Pool and Spa — Pool and Spa Controllers & Automation — Pentair - Pentair

    Just tell the contractor they must bond it costs them prob like $40 LOL
    Pricing out 34x17 w/ 7x7 raise spa (inner dimmensions), will finalize quote and get going asap.

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    Re: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    Check with an electrician about the local electrical code.

    Even if you're not required to bond, you should do so anyway for safety.
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    Well, any of the SWG cells should be plenty big for your pool, even the smallest IC20

    You filter size should be at least 100 sqft based on your pool size. But, that pump is VERY big and could easily overpower the filter if it is too small.
    If you go this route, make sure the maximum / prime speed of the Intelliflo is dialed way down.

    And yes you should bond. I believe it was a fiberglass pool that had a thread about people being shocked in the pool because it was not properly bonded (in addition to another problem that was introducing current, SWG maybe?).
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    Tom,

    Makes sure your Easytouch (ET) is NOT a lite version ET.. The ET you want will have a load center for all of your circuit breakers, as well as a built in power supply for your salt cell.

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    Jim beat me to it. I curse my ET "Lite" regularly!! PL4 and PSL4 are the dreaded model numbers.

    +1 for bonding. It's cheap, it'll be safer.
    12300 gallon IG pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, IntellipH, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City/softened water.

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    Re: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    Thank you all for your thoughts and feedback.

    I have asked the PB to confirm we are not using the Lite ET, and to confirm SWG and filter sizes.

    He said he wanted to go with a larger pump because it would be operating the pool and waterfall. Given that we will not always be operating both at once, should i ask what the cost difference would be for 2 smaller pumps?

    As well, any thoughts on the lights? I've been so torn and stuck on this decision as it is so hard to change after the fact

    Thanks again all!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    The pump will integrate will into your automation. If you are going to run the waterfall and pool jets at the same time, then it needs to be sized for that. The cost difference in the grand scheme of things is probably not significant. Just be sure the filter is size large enough for the highest flow rates that might be required
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    Hey all, I asked the PB questions that came for your guys questions/feedback. He responded with:
    The salt generator would be an IC20
    The size of the filter would be an SD60
    I am not sure why or what you would bond to as bonding of a pool is done to steel and would be done by the electrician.
    The Easy touch is not the Lite Version. It is the other version that has the subpanel built into it.

    Any thoughts on the filter or SWG size, or his comment suggesting bonding is not needed for fiberglass pools?

    Also, any comments/suggestions on the lights?

    TIA!

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    Re: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    I'm just learning about bonding, but I believe you'd want to bond the water, any metal within 5' of your pool, in or out of the water, including ladders, lights, etc, and any concrete decking surrounding the pool: solid, paver, even dirt or grass. And then that connects to the pad and all its components.

    Bonding is a science and needs to be performed by someone that knows how to do it, and inspected by someone that knows what it's supposed to look like.
    12300 gallon IG pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, IntellipH, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City/softened water.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

    First post said cartridge filter. The sd60 is a sand filter. Which do you want?

    SWG size should be fine.

    Bonding is extremely important. This alone would make me reconsider the builder.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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