New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

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After re-reading the original post, I think its probable that the lack of clarity or "plankton" is DE that didn't get trapped in the grids.

A couple of questions.
!. Which suction lines are open, closed and almost closed.
2. How are you putting in the DE
 
Thank you all for the very warm welcome. It is much appreciated. I'll try to answer as many questions as I can.
The "plankton" like debris that I was seeing in the water was more than likely, DE residual from my old filter. The grids in my old filter were cracked and letting the powder into the pool/spa. I tried vacuuming the DE off the bottom but it just went through the filter and back into the pool. After I installed my new filter, I vacuumed all of the DE from the pool/spa, then brushed the pool surface. Brushing turned the pool pretty cloudy but I thought the filter would clear things up. The pool got as clear as it was going to get 8 days later. I think my continuous brushing may have contributed to the water not looking as clear as it used to be. I haven't brushed the pool in 3 days, now, and it looks much better, but, not like it used to.
The flow into and out of the filter doesn't appear to have changed but my old filter didn't have a gauge, so it's hard to tell. The return fittings in the pool feel about the same as they did? I always felt they were a bit weak, anyway.
The 3 inlet valves are as follows:

Main drain, closed.
Wall vacuum, open.
Skimmer, part way open. (I adjust the skimmer valve to set the proper suction for my Navigator) If all three were open, or even two, I would not have enough suction for the Navigator.
As a test, I will open all three valves and check the pressure again.
To my knowledge, the motor is 1.5 HP The pool has 4 returns. 2 in the pool, 2 in the spa.


The reason there is DE on the pad is because after the installation of the new filter, there was a tiny water leak at he high side of the pump, at the pump. The only way to repair it was to cut open the PVC to the filter (you can see the repair collar in the photos) and reseal the threads at the pump. While the PVC was cut, I opened the air bleed valve and water, and a whole lot of DE was spent from the open pipe. I add DE very slowly, through the skimmer.
Oh, BTW, the gauge is reading a steady 6 lbs, not 8 or 9 like I had thought. I keep hearing that 18-20 would be normal.
 
18-20 would be in the normal range if you had a heater. After you open the skimmer and drain valves you will probably be around 10psi +-2 and the pump will most likely run quieter. With the valves in the current position the pump is not getting enough water.

I suggest you open the drain valve and brush the pool a couple of times and you will see the clarity that you saw in the past with the old filter. Hope this helps.
 
Thanks, renovxpt, but there's 2 reasons why I don't open the main drain. First, the Navigator gets stuck on it when it's open. (yes, it has a diffuser over it) And, second, there's not enough suction when the drain is open to run the Navigator. In fact, in order for the Navigator to get the proper suction, the main drain has to remain closed and the skimmer has to remain partially closed, sending almost all of the pumps suction power to the Navigator. That's why I'm thinking the impeller is clogged or other internal issues. I would think that 1 1/2 HP would be ample to run all three valves wide open. 18 years old and I doubt its ever been opened. Who knows what kind of junk could have been sucked in there from Hurricane Wilma. Maybe my old filter worked well with low flow. On a second note, my Navigator is plumbed to the wall port, not the skimmer.
 
Hair and lint strainers are designed to remove particles that could potentially be trapped in the impeller. This usually only occurs when there is a crack in the strainer or it was not put in the pump properly. It is very unlikely that debris from Wilma would still be there. However in theory cavitation could wear out an impeller from the heat generated on the surface of the vanes. IMO there is nothing wrong with your impeller and you will know this when you open the other valves.

If you decide to open up the pump be prepared to replace the oring because it will most likely increase in size...... If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
Meowcat, did you recoat the grids after loosing the DE onto the pad, once the leak was fixed?

If not, you may have undercoated grids :( - which could result in cloudy water.

Please see this thread (again from Further Reading in Pool School - IMO, the guy who wrote the post is an absolute genius :p :oops: :wink: )
 
renovxpt, You've been more than helpful, thank you. I already bought the gaskets and a pump seal kit, so I'll be prepared when I disassemble it. I'm curious, more than anything. I'd like the filter to work as my old one did. Question: Don't you feel that my pump is a bit weak, in that, it doesn't even have enough power to operate a skimmer and an automatic pool cleaner at the same time? I mean, my skimmer is only half way open because the pump doesn't have enough power to operate both. Plus, the low gauge reading. Aren't these signs of poor circulation? I understand what you are saying about the strainer basket in the pump. I've pulled debris out of it several times. I've not noticed any damage to the basket. Perhaps the impeller is worn, I don't know. It is a very old pump.
 

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Meowcat,
The pump is going to pull water from the source that offers the least resistance or friction loss. The skimmer line is probably much shorter and maybe a larger diameter than the cleaner line thereby allowing it to be an easier path for flow. When you partially close the skimmer line, you are in effect increasing the friction loss and making the cleaner line the easier path.

It is fairly typical to close or partially close other suction ports to create enough suction to operate a manual vacuum which basically is what you are doing to operate the navigator. When the navigator is not in operation it would be best to open those valves to increase the overall flow and effeciency of the circulation system.

In other words, I think your pump is operating as it should the way the valves are set.
 
I would like to give everyone an update on my filtering situation. I now have exactly 6 lbs of DE powder in my filter. It turned out to be just shy of 10 scoops from my DE scooper, far more than I originally had. It's been filtering for 5 days with the proper DE amount. I'm still nowhere near the clarity that I had with my old filter. My old filter was filtering better when it was broken. At night, I can still see unacceptable amounts of micro debris reflected in the pool light. During the day, well....unacceptable. My old filter made the water look like gin. In short, it used to be stunning. I don't want to blame the filter, as I think I may have a major flow problem. At this point, my pump has barely enough power to run my navigator, which means that 95% of the water being pulled from the pool is through the tiny opening in the pool cleaner. I keep my main drain closed and my skimmer is now almost closed completely. When I adjust the pool/spa inlets so that the spa overflows the pool properly, there's barely any discharge from the pool inlets. The pump is definitely weak. With all 3 valves open, I get 10 psi at the filter. To keep my pool cleaner working properly, the valves are adjusted in such a way that I'm getting only 4-5 psi. at the filter. I know the pool water should turn over once every 4-8 hours, is that correct? Although I haven't tested it, I doubt the pump is turning the water over once in 3 or 4 days! I haven't pulled the pump apart yet. It is making a noise on start-up but it goes away after a couple of minutes. I'll be pulling it apart this Sunday. Any ideas what I might find? How do I check the three inlets to the pump for a clog? In a way, I'm kind of hoping that I find my impeller completely worn down to a nub or completely clogged. Easy fix. The big question remains. Why did my old, broken filter, work so much better than my brand new DE4820 at twice the size?
 
Just an educated guess, but I think you will find the pool is heavily over-dosed with CYA, rendering the chlorine ineffective. That leads to all sorts of potential water issues over which your filter has no control.

You certainly need to get the mechanical parts of your pool in working order, but water clarity is far more often a problem with chemistry than it is the filter.

The sooner you get the test results, the sooner you will be able to figure out exactly what problems exist.

If you have an interest, you should consider doing your own testing and water balance. (Probably 90% of the folks on this forum do) It's the easiest way to learn and understand your pool.
 
Okay, I pulled my pool pump apart today. Here are the results.

1. The impeller was not clogged or worn, but the diffuser O ring was practically folded in half. I took the motor to the pool store to see if they could replace the bearings. Nope! the motor was shot. Bought a new motor (1 HP, BTW) Replaced the pump seals, diffuser O ring, seal plate O ring, and pot cover and volute O rings.

2. Water balance results. Not good!! Here they are.

Hardness-175
Total calcium-0
Free chlorine-0
P.H.-7.5
Alkalinity- 60
Stabilizer- 0

I called my pool guy right away to ask about the discrepancy in my chemicals. I gave him the numbers and he said that would be impossible. Here's where it gets interesting. He asks me when I put water in the pool last. I told him I just added 4 inches to it yesterday. He says "wow, 4 inches, why'd you wait so long?" I said I've been adding 2-3 inches to the pool every 4-5 days. He pretty much freaked :shock: when I told him this. He says "listen, I cannot keep you water balanced if you're constantly adding water to it, it's impossible. You need to find and fix your leak or you'll continue to have this issue." He's a very nice guy and he offered to come out and see if he could find the leak for me.

Anyway, the new motor and pump work great, Quiet as He**! I wanted to give everyone an update.
Happy trails.
 

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