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Thread: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

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    New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    Hello, all. I've been in my house 9 years, now, and the pool has had a crusty old Pentair 8000 series DE filter. The filter itself worked great, creating stunning pool water clarity. It could clear a cloudy pool in about a half a day.

    I could no longer find parts for it so I replaced it with a brand new Hayward Pro-Grid DE4820. Other than the new filter, no other changes were made to the system. The new filter, along with a new 6 position multi-port valve have been installed for 8 days, and I'm not seeing the clarity that I used to.

    The pool water is not dirty but it just doesn't have the glimmer it once had. At night, with the pool light on, there are obvious "plankton" like particles that can be seen reflecting in the light. During the day, it's obviously nowhere near as clear as it used to be.

    As per the directions, I added 6 lbs of DE powder. The pressure reading on the gauge is 8-9 lbs. Is this the best it can do?

    Is there a reason why my new Hayward can't even come close to matching my old relic?

    My old filter was about half the size of my new one but I was told by several sources to buy the largest filter you can afford, and that under-sizing was an issue, not over-sizing.

    My pool store told me from the very beginning that I needed to add 7 lbs of DE powder to my old filter every time it's serviced. It now seems strange that a filter half the size of my new one, would take MORE DE powder. 6 lbs. of DE doesn't seem like a whole lot of powder for this monster.

    Also, some say the basic rule of thumb is to add 1 lb. for every 10 SF. That would put my new filter at 4.8 lbf of DE! That doesn't sound right. Anyway, the manufacturer says 6 lbs. and that's what its got. Any answers? Thanks.
    15,000 Gal, Diamond Brite, non heated, overflowing spa, 250k BTU propane heater for spa only, 3 speed air blower, Hayward DE4820, 1 HP motor on pool, 1.5 HP motor on spa. 1.5" PVC to and from pool. Spa pump has 1.5" pressure, 2" suction.

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    What pump?
    Is there air in the pump basket?
    Six pounds is correct for that filter.
    I would expect, under most normal conditions, that the pressure would be between 14 and 18 lbs, depending on plumbing size, length, and pump size/type. A variable speed pump on low will show a lower pressure.

    It's possible the impeller is clogged, pump basket is full or another restriction exists.

    Assuming the filter was plumbed correctly, it's unlikely to be the filter's at fault.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuyNJ
    What pump?
    Is there air in the pump basket?
    Six pounds is correct for that filter.
    I would expect, under most normal conditions, that the pressure would be between 14 and 18 lbs, depending on plumbing size, length, and pump size/type. A variable speed pump on low will show a lower pressure.

    It's possible the impeller is clogged, pump basket is full or another restriction exists.

    Assuming the filter was plumbed correctly, it's unlikely to be the filter's at fault.

    Scott
    Thanks, Scott. The pump is an old 1.5 HP plumbed with 1.5" PVC. There's no air in the pump basket. I think the pump is about 18 years old. I don't know how I'd check the impeller.
    15,000 Gal, Diamond Brite, non heated, overflowing spa, 250k BTU propane heater for spa only, 3 speed air blower, Hayward DE4820, 1 HP motor on pool, 1.5 HP motor on spa. 1.5" PVC to and from pool. Spa pump has 1.5" pressure, 2" suction.

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    Turn off the pump. Remove the lid, pull out the basket. This will uncover the throat leading to the impeller. Reach in the throat deeply. Try to remove any debris. If the pump basket is cracked, replace it. That's how the debris go in there.

    What make and model is the pump. You may need to some disassembly.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    Assuming the filter was plumbed correctly, it's unlikely to be the filter's at fault.
    Scott makes a good point. Assuming your filter is hooked up and running correctly, it is far more likely to be a water balance issue than your filter.

    In short, what made the water cloudy to begin with? If you can post up a full set of test results, it is likely to point to the source. Also, let us know the city and state where you live.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    The reduced pressure in the tank tells me his flow is substantially reduced. I suspect he will find a low free chlorine level.

    Once the source of the restricted suction is found and fixed, flow will return to the normally expected levels and a couple gallons of bleach and some filter time will clear the pool fairly quickly.

    While not unheard of, an 18 year old pump is pretty rare. Please post a picture or a link to a picture.

    If you can't reach the impeller from the front, the body of the pump will need to be unbolted from the back half containing the motor and impeller.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    Scott, is it possible that the pump is just weak? It makes a metalic sound (almost like the impeller is rubbing on something) upon start-up but goes away after a couple of seconds. The pump basket is empty. Does the impeller wear out over time? I know the pump is old because the exterior of the motor is covered in rust. We've been in the house for 9 years and the house was built in 1992. The pump looked weathered when we moved in, which is why I think it may be 18 years old. I'll try and grab some pictures. I still don't understand why the previous filter worked beautifully. I don't know what the pressure was previously, the old gauge died years ago.
    15,000 Gal, Diamond Brite, non heated, overflowing spa, 250k BTU propane heater for spa only, 3 speed air blower, Hayward DE4820, 1 HP motor on pool, 1.5 HP motor on spa. 1.5" PVC to and from pool. Spa pump has 1.5" pressure, 2" suction.

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    Okay, here are some pics. The white stuff on the ground is DE powder, not snow. It's south Florida, after all.








    15,000 Gal, Diamond Brite, non heated, overflowing spa, 250k BTU propane heater for spa only, 3 speed air blower, Hayward DE4820, 1 HP motor on pool, 1.5 HP motor on spa. 1.5" PVC to and from pool. Spa pump has 1.5" pressure, 2" suction.

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    The grind you hear at startup is the bearings starting to die.

    That motor is old and near the end of it's life. The pump is a Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass or Duraglass II. It's still a possibility that the impeller is clogged. Its easy to check fortunately.

    The black cross keeps the stainless band clamp tight. The band clamp keeps the pump body and motor section together. Unscrew it and lift the motor up and back away from the pump housing. The cover over the impeller is called a diffuser. Look in the middle opening for debris.

    Impellers can and do wear out. If you remove the diffuser, you will see the impeller. If it looks worn, you'll know it. If it needs replacing, get a new seal set too. An out of balance impeller will stress the motor.

    Do you have a multimeter to check voltages? If your pump is wired for 240VAC, you may be running on 120. This may require resetting it's breaker if only a single leg of the power tripped.

    Last, you may need a new motor. It is old. If it comes to that, then a new seal set is needed. If you're not OK with electrical stuff, you can hire someone.

    If the valves on the suction side are hard to turn also, it might make sense to go for a new pump. The suction side plumbing doesn't have enough service slack to replace the pump without ankle cutting the suction side plumbing. If the valves are OK, then just the motor and seal set and maybe the impeller.

    I don't know what you electric rates are so I can't say if you would benefit from variable speed pump. I do know that with 1-1/2" plumbing, it must be restricted from being to run to it's full flow capability, but it will save money in power usage over what you have today. Today, your using about 1500 watts. Pushing the same amount of water as you normally do with this pump, as an example, a Pentair Intelliflow VS-SVRS, you could be using as little as 900 watts in spa mode, vacuuming mode, and backwashing mode, and turn it down to 300 watts for regular filtering mode. It has built in timers too. It does require 240 VAC, so if you are running at 120 now, either skip it or U/G.
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    ^^Thanks for the tips. I'm going to check the impeller the first chance I get.
    15,000 Gal, Diamond Brite, non heated, overflowing spa, 250k BTU propane heater for spa only, 3 speed air blower, Hayward DE4820, 1 HP motor on pool, 1.5 HP motor on spa. 1.5" PVC to and from pool. Spa pump has 1.5" pressure, 2" suction.

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    So, I've decided to pull the pump apart and inspect the diffuser and impeller. I'm going to order a Go-Kit but I don't know if I have a Duraglass or a duraglass ll pump. Does anyone know how to tell the difference? The labels are unreadable on the pump.The Go-Kits are definitely different.
    15,000 Gal, Diamond Brite, non heated, overflowing spa, 250k BTU propane heater for spa only, 3 speed air blower, Hayward DE4820, 1 HP motor on pool, 1.5 HP motor on spa. 1.5" PVC to and from pool. Spa pump has 1.5" pressure, 2" suction.

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    Dura-Glass doesn't have a pump basket, pot or lid, and the II model does.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    Scott, are you sure you have that right? I ended up taking my pot lid and strainer basket to my local pool store and they confirmed that it's a Duraglas pump, not a Duraglas ll. They said the Duraglas ll has a strainer basket that's about 2" longer than the Duraglas. Also, every picture I've seen of a Duraglas pump looks just like mine. Anyway, I picked up a gasket kit and I'll be disassembling the pump for inspection.
    15,000 Gal, Diamond Brite, non heated, overflowing spa, 250k BTU propane heater for spa only, 3 speed air blower, Hayward DE4820, 1 HP motor on pool, 1.5 HP motor on spa. 1.5" PVC to and from pool. Spa pump has 1.5" pressure, 2" suction.

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    I stand corrected. They are right. The 1-1/2" plumbing was forgotten by me.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    Meowcat, welcome to TFP!!

    Here is a link to a thread in Pool School's 'Further Reading' section on changing a whisperflow seal assembly. Even though you have a different brand pump and aren't , necessarily, changing the impeller - and thereby, the shaft seal assembly, the post has a bunch of info that will help you 'see' what's going on inside there (there are also a number of other posts on opening pumps - try 'seal assembly' as a search term)

    If you run into any trouble or have questions as you go to check the impeller, simply ask here and Scott, myself or any of a number of others with experience in doing this will be happy to assist

    Good luck! Please let us know how it goes
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    8-9 psi for that set up is probably about right. Does it seem like the flow is less than before you put in the new filter?

    It looks like you only have one of the 3 suction valves fully open.

    Does it look like there is DE in the pool?

    Before you start taking the pump apart, try putting it in the waste position and see if you get a full flow of water.

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    I don't understand why the DE is all over the equipment pad? It looks as if you are putting it in the hair and lint strainer?

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by renovxpt

    Before you start taking the pump apart, try putting it in the waste position and see if you get a full flow of water.
    renovxpt, welcome to TFP!!

    Are sure you don't mean 'recirc'?
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    If the issue is restricted flow from a clogged or worn out impeller, a short run on waste would answer the question and be much easier than taking the pump apart. Although looking in the skimmer or at the pressure of the returns would usually be a good enough indicator.

    IMO 8-9 psi is close to normal for that system.

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: New Hayward DE Not Filtering to Satisfaction.

    Hello waste, thank you and Happy New Year

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