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Thread: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

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    aboykin2269's Avatar
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    AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    Hello everyone. I have been a member of this forum for a long time and have found this site/forum/community very helpful and enjoyable during my time as a new pool owner. I haven't posted in a while. Actually didn't even open the pool this whole summer. We sold our house and moved out to the country. It was a horrible, terrible 6 month ordeal but we are here now. Still living out of boxes, but in our new place and loving it.
    It has been my intention the whole time to get rid of our small (18x48) temp pool and put up a permanent AGP (24x52 round) and build a nice deck around it connected to the house with french doors leading right off our master bedroom to the deck and pool.
    While i am confident about installing the pool on my own, and I have friends who are licensed contractors to help with the deck, I have been reading up on codes for our county pool inspections for electrical and bonding and all that. It seems so complicated and confusing. I am starting to think I need to hire someone to handle all of that.
    So getting to my question (finally), can I (should I) hire an electrician to install the GFCI circuit for the pool and will they be able to do the bonding and all of that for inspection purposes?
    Like I said, I can build the deck and install the pool, I'm just freaked out about all the codes and requirements. And the cost, to be honest.
    I was NOT the person that won that 1.5 Billion Mega jackpot.
    Thanks everyone!
    Ant
    16'x48" Summer Escapes Pro-Series, AG, Ultra-Frame, Intex CS15110 Sand filter/SWG, 5061 GAL, TF-100 Test Kit w/ K-1766 Salt Test and Speedstir.
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    Mod Squad Texas Splash's Avatar
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    AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    Welcome back! Well, about your main question (electrical)….. a standard electrician should have no problem installing your GFCI to the equipment pad for the pump. Trenching to the pad (as required) might be something you can do on your own if you find out in advance the minimum depth. Call before you dig. That might save you a few bucks. Or one of your contractor friends might hook you up with a great deal.

    But depending on your pool's bonding requirement, that may be another issue. Some electricians may not be completely familiar with pool-specific bonding issues, so a pool installer or specialty sub-contractor "may" be needed. You'll know when you get to that point. Just make sure to ask. What I'm going to do is modify your thread title to include electrical in it to catch some of our electrical expert eyes in TFP. That might help. Good luck!
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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    You may want to look at this thread, Bonding an above ground pool
    Also if you decide you want an electrician to do it for you, find one with pool bonding experience. Check with a local builder for some names of electricians they may have used. The process is not as complicated for an AGP as it is for an inground, but if you're going to do it you may as well do it right!

    This youtube link may also help: How to bond an above ground swimming pool - YouTube or Above Ground Pool Bonding - YouTube
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    I'm going to be the third one here to say if you are confused about bonding (don't feel bad if you are, it's confusing for a lot of folks) hire an expert. When we say an expert, as has been stated we are talking about not only a licensed electrician, you want one with pool experience.

    Bonding for a pool is an area that very few people understand, but it is very important to the safety of those in and around the water. It's sad to say, even many electricians, unless they work with pool electrical systems regularly don;t understand it. Here is a good article that explains what bondng is.

    Taking the Mystery Out of Equipotential Bonding Requirements for Swimming Pools

    Bonding for pools was added to the NEC in 1962 and has been modified and clarified through the years.

    When did the National Electrical Code require grounding/bonding for swimming pools?
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    Re: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    I think the guy in the YT video missed this part of the code... ????? How does that work? Wrapping the wire around the PVC on the skimmer isn't it.

    The pool water itself must also be bonded. An intentional bond of a minimum conductive surface area of 5800 mm2 (9 in.2) is required to be in direct contact with the pool water. This bonding can be accomplished with any of the conductive parts that are required to be bonded as described above. This could include such things as a metal pool ladder or railing where at least 9 square inches of the ladder is in contact with the water. A metal forming shell of a wet-niche luminaire can also satisfy this bonding requirement [see NEC26(C) and photo 1].

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    Re: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    +1 for the pro install (licensed, bonded, insured, pool-qualified, etc). Two phases: have him come out for a prelim assessment. Have him give you instructions for the dirty work, all that you can do (or want to do). Trenching, wire laying, whatever. He won't want to do that anyway. Then he comes back to make all the required connections. It won't cost more than it needs to that way, and you'll get it done right, and to code. If your project is to be permitted and inspected, so much the better. A second set of eyes on it to make sure it's done correctly.
    12300 gallon IG pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, IntellipH, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City/softened water.

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    Re: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    Awesome thank you!
    Ant
    16'x48" Summer Escapes Pro-Series, AG, Ultra-Frame, Intex CS15110 Sand filter/SWG, 5061 GAL, TF-100 Test Kit w/ K-1766 Salt Test and Speedstir.
    Pool School, ABC's of Water Chemistry, CYA/Chlorine Chart, Water Balance for SWG's, Pool Math.

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    Re: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    Another question:
    I spoke to an electrician and he said the pool had to have a bonding grid under the pool and out to 3' around the pool. I have never seen this, so I don't know what this looks like. Is it a mesh of wires? Is it thick at all? How does the pool sit on virgin earth if I have to fill in over the grid? Also, if there is grid out 3' around the pool, how do I handle that when I build my deck around the pool later? Will I not need footers within 3' of the edge of the pool?
    I know all of this is a safety issue and I'm all for that, but why is the whole process so difficult, confusing, and expensive? I feel like more people out there end up getting frustrated or priced out of doing this the right way, and then just skip all the permit stuff and do it themselves. Un-inspected, un-permited, un-bonded, and un-safe.
    Ant
    16'x48" Summer Escapes Pro-Series, AG, Ultra-Frame, Intex CS15110 Sand filter/SWG, 5061 GAL, TF-100 Test Kit w/ K-1766 Salt Test and Speedstir.
    Pool School, ABC's of Water Chemistry, CYA/Chlorine Chart, Water Balance for SWG's, Pool Math.

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    Re: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    Here it is required that they have a bond wire that connected to the rebar in a “halo” all the way around and then to any metal within 10 feet of the pool. They connected to our view fence, gabion (rock cage) wall, flashing on the house, and back over to the equipment pad.
    12,342 gal IG Plaster, Pentair (Quad DE 60, Intelliflow VSF, EasyTouch 8, IntelliChlor IC40, MasterTemp 400 Heater, IntelliPh, T40 Automatic Filler), Hayward DE Separation Tank, Paramount Paraskim V venturi skimmer, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit, Softened City Water for Refill, 36" sheer decent water fall, qty. 2 deck jets

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    aboykin2269's Avatar
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    Re: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    I read the County's pool inspection section on their website and it mentions the 3' grid around the perimeter but nothing about under the pool. I think I'm going to talk to one of the inspectors first, then go out for multiple bids from area electricians.
    Ant
    16'x48" Summer Escapes Pro-Series, AG, Ultra-Frame, Intex CS15110 Sand filter/SWG, 5061 GAL, TF-100 Test Kit w/ K-1766 Salt Test and Speedstir.
    Pool School, ABC's of Water Chemistry, CYA/Chlorine Chart, Water Balance for SWG's, Pool Math.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    Quote Originally Posted by aboykin2269 View Post
    I read the County's pool inspection section on their website and it mentions the 3' grid around the perimeter but nothing about under the pool. I think I'm going to talk to one of the inspectors first, then go out for multiple bids from area electricians.
    I've never heard anything about it being installed under an AGP, but I guess it can't hurt. The grid consists of a #8 bare copper wire, so not thick at all.

    While some folks do make a mesh (or bond to the rebar in a concrete patio to create a mesh, a single #8 bare copper wire in a circle/halo 3' out from the pool will suffice.
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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    It sounds like the electrician assumed the pool would be built on a concrete slab. You don't need a mesh under the pool to bond it.
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    aboykin2269's Avatar
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    Re: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    Yep. So I finally just called the County and spoke to the head building inspector. I asked him what HE needed/wanted to see so it would pass inspection. He said definitely have an electrician run the line to the equipment pad (GFIC) and then I could bond it myself. He said within 3' of the pool wall, run a #8 copper wire in a circle and bond it to metal parts in at least 3 places around the pool.
    leave the wire uncovered for inspection, then bury it under a few inches of dirt. That's all!
    Project New Pool is a go.
    It is scheduled to arrive tomorrow and I will be spending this Winter and early spring prepping the site and putting up our dream come true!
    We will be posting our build along the way in hopes it might help someone in the future.
    We really CANNOT wait!
    Ant
    16'x48" Summer Escapes Pro-Series, AG, Ultra-Frame, Intex CS15110 Sand filter/SWG, 5061 GAL, TF-100 Test Kit w/ K-1766 Salt Test and Speedstir.
    Pool School, ABC's of Water Chemistry, CYA/Chlorine Chart, Water Balance for SWG's, Pool Math.

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    Re: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    Excellent!
    12300 gallon IG pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, IntellipH, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City/softened water.

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: AGP Freak out - Electrical Question

    FUN! I would love to hear about the new house as well! Start with showing us some pics of the area the pool will be going in and sharing details about the new pool!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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