Who is the Ideal Service Person?

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
44,330
Who is the Ideal Service Person?

Part of the reason this website exists is to help people take care of their own pool. And, part of the reason for the need is that it can be difficult to find good service people that we can trust to do things right for a fair price. Many people here have had a bad experience where they hired someone to do some work only to be disappointed with the results. So, they decided to do it themselves.

Ultimately, we can’t do everything ourselves. For services in general, we will all need to rely on service providers throughout our lives. We all rely on service people every day. Specifically, I’m talking about skilled trades that do things for us. This includes plumbers, painters, electricians, HVAC, doctors, nurses, dentists, carpenters, cable and internet installers, accountants, roofers, lawn services, pool services, handyman, auto mechanics, cleaning, eldercare, childcare, roofing, siding, concrete etc.

We all need to rely on experts for many things throughout our lives. But, there can be a big difference from one expert or professional to another. When we get someone good, it’s a big relief when we like them and trust them. When we get someone that does not meet our expectations, it can be very disappointing and frustrating. Having a few bad experiences can make us cynical and distrustful of all service people.

Statistically speaking, there’s a bell curve that represents the distribution of the quality of individuals. Assuming a normally distributed bell curve, there is a mean that represents the middle and everyone to the left of the mean is below average and everyone to the right of the mean is above average. This example assumes that below average means that the service will be unacceptable.

Now, is it fair to say that 50% of service professionals in any industry could be classified as unacceptable? Maybe, maybe not. But, the ranking is based on your criteria. And, why would you choose from the below average group when the ratings were based on your own criteria?

Assuming that we want to eliminate everyone below average, that immediately cuts the population in half. 34% of service people are within 1 standard deviation of the mean. 14% are 2 standard deviations from the mean and only 2% are 3 standard deviations from the mean.

So, if we can eliminate the bottom half, the remaining set of potential service people fall in to 3 categories, Good, Better, and Best. About 34% of people fall into the good category, 14% are better and only 2% are the Best.

Depending on the task and cost, you might want good, better or best. When getting someone to cut your lawn, you might be OK with good and less expensive. When getting someone to remove a brain tumor, you probably want the best. You’re probably not going to use the BOGO coupon for brain tumor removal from the local coupon mailer.

What criteria do I think make an IDEAL service person?

Integrity: They are not going to lie, cheat or steal from you. They are honest about what they can and can’t do and make every effort to do what’s right. They act as a fiduciary, which means that they put your best interest ahead of their own personal gain. They work hard to earn and keep your trust. They invest in the relationship for the long term versus trying to maximize profit on every transaction. They treat you with respect and appreciation. They are patient when you ask questions and they are careful to explain things so that you can make the best decision. If you ever have an issue with anything they have done, they make it right and give you the benefit of the doubt.

Dedication: They follow through with what they say they will do when they say they will do it. Of course things happen that are valid reasons where you can’t do something that you said would get done, but too often people cancel for lesser reasons without appreciating the impact it might have on you. Someone who’s dedicated is someone you can trust will get it done when they say it will get done regardless if they are tired, hungry, stuck in traffic or whatever.

Excellence: The best service people always do their best to do excellent work in anything they do. They really care about getting things right because they know that it matters to you and they take pride in their work. They take the time necessary to do it right and they don’t rush through a job just to get it done. They don’t take short cuts that compromise the quality of the job. They make sure that the work is safe and will last a long time.

Ability: The best service people are doing something that they are good at doing and like to do. They learn on the job and they continue to learn off the job by taking classes, reading manuals, doing research, getting certifications through training etc. They make sure that they have the proper knowledge, tools and equipment for any job they do.

Love: The best love what they do. They love the customers they work for. They love their coworkers and company. We have all encountered service people who are miserable, they don’t like their job, they don’t like dealing with customers and they don’t like the work. If you don’t like the work, customers or coworkers, you’re not going to do a good job. Only when you love the work, customers and coworkers can you really do your best work. When you care about the customer, you’re going to do the right thing for them.

So, those are just some of my ideas. I would be interested to know what anyone thinks on the subject.

How do you search for and evaluate services?

Do you use online search?

What reviews do you find helpful? Yelp, Google, Angie’s List, Home Advisor etc.?

Do you ask your friends, family or neighbors for recommendations?

What criteria do you use look for in a service person or company?

What kinds of things really annoy you and make you not want to deal with a service person or company?

Do you prefer a small independent local company or a big franchise chain?

What do you do to ensure that the service person does things right?

Do you trust people to work in your home without supervision?

I know that home services are growing exponentially and we are all relying more and more on service people to be in our homes and we can’t stand on top of them the whole time. What things can be done to verify that everything went ok?

Certain jobs like housekeeping or maid service, childcare or eldercare etc. can have people in our homes for extended periods. How much will technology play a part in helping us to keep an eye on things?

Will we have cameras everywhere or just key places or nowhere?

What services do you use or plan to use?

What services would you not use or probably not use?

How much difference does pricing make?

What services are you not using because of the cost?

What services would you use if the cost was lower?

What’s the going rate for a service you would want and what would it need to be to be an easy choice?

Thanks for any thoughts anyone wants to share.
 
James:

Interesting thread and very well laid out. Below are some of my answers to some of your concerns and questions. They may not go into detail as you would want, but I made some general comments. Hopefully others will chime in about services outside the pool industry.

So, those are just some of my ideas. I would be interested to know what anyone thinks on the subject.

How do you search for and evaluate services?

Do you use online search?

Yes, I believe most of the world now relies on online searches to gather information.

What reviews do you find helpful? Yelp, Google, Angie’s List, Home Advisor etc.?

I definitely use on line reviews as a starting point. Although, not all reviews should be viewed as 100% accurate either. Only reviews really not worth too much are food reviews - Yelp!

Do you ask your friends, family or neighbors for recommendations?

Yes, for most things that I do.

What criteria do you use look for in a service person or company?

This is a hard one.

What kinds of things really annoy you and make you not want to deal with a service person or company?

Communication, or the lack of communication. It only takes one minute to call, e-mail, or text back and follow up to an inquiry. Having to repeatedly chase a service provider is annoying.

Do you prefer a small independent local company or a big franchise chain?

Small independent local company for most minor projects, but more of a larger franchise for major projects.

What do you do to ensure that the service person does things right?

I always make sure that I am home when the service person is there, and make sure that everything is up front and there are no hidden surprises. Things do slip through the cracks once in a while.

Do you trust people to work in your home without supervision?

It is not a matter of trust, but more of a comfort point in making sure that everything is done properly.

What services do you us or plan to use?

I only use services that are beyond my knowledge and time constraints.

What services would you not use or probably not use?

Only services that do not take a lot of time and can easily be accomplished within a day or weekend.

How much difference does pricing make?

All depends on the type of project. I think most humans are price conscience, but do know that certain services will cost top dollar, without exception.

What services are you not using because of the cost?

Tree trimming and Landscape trimming. This is a task that can be done a little at a time. The average cost is around $50 per hour to hire someone in NJ.

What services would you use if the cost was lower?

This one is a little difficult to answer. Most of the services that I do on my own are out of necessity, as contractors, whether it be landscapers, or other so called professionals never show up or return phone calls. It took over 6 years to find someone to show up to my home (for a small job) of soldering copper piping (due to a leak) and replacing a one way valve near my boiler. By accident, someone locally showed up to my house and he did the job for a reasonable cost and as promised in a time frame.
 
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Ok, thanks. I would think that the three main reasons that people might avoid hiring help are trust, inconvenience and cost.

I think that there are three basic levels of trust.
1) Taking care of a loved one, like a child, parent or pet. Especially when they might not be able to communicate with you, such as an infant or someone with Alzheimer's.
2) Workers inside the home.
3) Workers outside the home.

Each requires its own level of trust in the service person's honesty and competence.

Inconvenience happens when you have to be home to monitor someone or your life is disrupted by work. For example, if you have to watch a housekeeper work for 3 hours, you're not really saving any time. Or, if you're doing a renovation, your house or a room is a mess for a week or three while workers move through your house all day every day.

Cost is certainly a factor, but I would suspect that in many cases it's probably the least of the three.
 
I’ve found that the Nextdoor App to be very effective in finding quality, user-screened pool service providers in my area. The app requires evidence that you live in the neighborhood before you can join.

I enjoy servicing my own pool, and have been maintaining pools for the better part of a decade. I’ve managed larger commercial, and smaller resi properties also. I am often too proud to admit my own DIY limitations. I must say, I’m pretty good at fixing most things—likely why my wife hasn’t left me yet (that’s a complete joke ;).

When it comes to specific code electrical help and major pool renovations I’ve used professionals, and thankfully use friends in the construction trade that I work tangentially with. My community is fantastic at sharing advise, something I struggled with while living in the Los Angeles area. Price is a concern, but often just getting a trustworthy pro on the job is worth a small premium. Quality homeownership maintenance is nothing to trifle with. Great post!
 
I have been fortunate in life to have every trade at my disposal from my father's group of friends. none of them did the college thing or if they did ended up in the trades so they built my home and have done work for me since. Everything I know if from them. Some of them have retired and are retiring so I am have been needing to find other people to fill their shoes. Luckily I have met others through them so it has been an easy transition.

So any of them I trust in my home at any time. My dad's buddies have always had access to my home. I mean they held me when I was a baby so the trust is there. The guys that I use that are my buddies same goes. Grew up with them. Got in trouble together. Had good times together. Trust is there.

The people I have hired over the years I do not know but still use and now know like my sprinkler people. They have limited access. My home is setup automation wise that I can remotely give them access to what they need to do without me there but not full access. Found them through a friend that I trust and goes for quality over price. So knew I could use them. They are perfect.

This brings me to money for service. I look for work quality. I don't care what the bill is if the work is their I say this because I learned the hard way. Built my home with my dad's guys. They were in their 60's when I built. I didn't want them up on the roof for the shingles so I hired it out. Flashing was there from my mason who is like a dad to me. He spent hours making it perfect. This company destroyed it! My roof leaked everywhere! I mean everywhere. They destroyed the roof so bad and flashing that I ended up having to reflash the whole roof with copper. all the valleys, everything. I hired them cause they were my cheapest estimate. good internet reviews. they ended up costing me an extra 20 grand in copper work plus the new matrial for shingles and I still had to send all my guys up to do the shingles. I saved nothing. Luckily I hadn't paid him much at all. I parted ways with " don't even bother showing up for any money. if u do u will be dealing with a bunch of very mad men who are very close to me." he said he was coming down. He actually showed up. He turned around and left really quick. Never heard from him again. But even with all the money I didn't pay him I was still way behind because of all the copper work I now needed.

So long story short to this day I don't care how much you charge IF you can back it up with your work. period. my wife gets mad but i always go back to the roof. she understands then. to this day when it rains i still check various spots in my house.

my fence guys I got from a friend who does work with them on various jobs. said they were nice, competitive in price, can trust them. so i ended up hiring them based on that. ended up a good decision. solid job.

so all in all everyone who works in my home have been family, friends, or from other friend's recommendations, or those i have met on jobs when i'm in the field. friends that i know think like me though. i got friends that look only at price. those that aren't detailed like me. i only listen to friends that are in the trades or those friends who have my mindset. it's sad to say I haven't met many guys on other jobs i would hire. sad to say. i see alot of dicey work out there. but i'm also on alot of jobs with guys that i already know so they work for me too.

it's worked out so far.

but oh the roof situation. . . what a nightmare. to this day i still think about it. but i was young and learning. i think i am pretty seasoned now. lol
 
James, great thread, and well thought out questions!!

I’ll give you my brief but to the point answers.

1. I find reviews from paid sites such as Angie’s List, have more value to me, as people have paid for the service.

2. Attention to detail is paramount with me. If you give me one line answers to my questions, rather then explaining the work you’re about to perform for me, buh bye.

3. Price means very little to me. You buy cheap, you get cheap. Cheap ALWAYS costs you more in the end!! Any good quality service person knows what they bring to the table to get your job done as if it where their own. And will charge accordingly.

4. Appearance. If you show up to my property to give me an estimate driving something that looks like it just rolled off the set of Mad Max, then I know what my project will look like when it’s done. Buh bye.

5. Knowledge. If through talking with a service person about a problem, I know more about the solution then they do, buh bye.

With that being said, I find that as a property owner having invested a large chunk of my money, you have to take the time to do your do diligence and educate yourself on what’s needed to complete the job. We’ve all been victims of “20/20 hindsight”, and it always boils down to laziness.

Again James, great topic, and well written. :cheers:
 
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One of the benefits of sites like TFP is that it can help inform homeowners so that they can have confidence in choosing a service if they want to or need to.

An informed homeowner can better tell who really knows what they're doing and who's who's mostly just pretending to know what they're doing.

In my opinion, good service people will always be in demand.

Incompetent service people, who trade on "secret information" or insider knowledge will be avoided.

And, of course it's always nice to be able to do the job yourself to save money and know that it's done correctly.
 
James,
A lot to think about, and it is obvious that you have put a lot of thought into this. Here are some of my thoughts not in any particular order.

I like to save money so I do what I can. I like to get a job well done so I do what I am good at. I like to have things done properly and where safety and building codes are paramount I don't do what I shouldn't try to do.

We moved recently into a house that was built in 1978 and then totally redone between 2008 and 2016. As such many maintenance issues are non-issues. We wanted to do some remodelling. We met a fellow who lives kitty corner across the back yard, who does home renovations. We wanted a new door with a opening window in it. Our guy said "No you don't. I'll just cut a hole in your door and put a window in it" So he saved $ and gained our trust. He then hooked us up with his trades.

We wanted a gas fireplace installed. Guess who didn't do the work. Researched and found a reliable gas guy. Not cheap. Good!

I wanted to paint some rooms. I did that work because most painters are quick and dirty. I am slow but I do a great job.

As for the pool. The Pool service I found is great. I do most of the work but they do help with the openings and closings.

They charge about $70/hr Canadian. A Cyclone is around $800 Can. I clean the pool. I balance the water chemistry, lower the water level.
Two men come and blow all the lines, sand filter and heat pump add antifreeze and empty bottles to the skimmer. Tape off the skimmer. All in 1 hour. I spend the rest of the day wrestling the safety cover into place. Instead of buying a cyclone I will get 11 closings for the same $ spent. So they do only what is required and I trust them.

Great post James.
 
I have talked to a few tradespeople regarding Angie's list. They pay about $20 per lead. Many of the leads appear to be fake or don't result in a sale. My neighbor used Angie's list to get someone out to repair his sprinkler system after our pool buildiers damaged heads. When I met with the sprinkler guy to offer to pay, he offered me a great deal on getting our own system in. However, it turned into a nightmare as he kept asking for more money and actually charged us twice for a filter. It brings us back to trust and integrety. The sprinkler guy had no license, insurance dispite having great reviews on angie's list. Our sprinkler system no longer works. This is my most recent example of hiring someone cheap which has cost me more in the long run. As my dad used to say, "you buy cheap and you buy twice".

I turned to facebook then for advice on who to hire for jobs. Looking at some responses, It sounds like I asked "who's freinds with a contractor"? I recently saw a post where someone was asking for a reccomendation for a pool builder. I immediately referred them to this site and advised them to learn the correct questions to ask a builder at bidding. It amazed me the other responses that were posted. One pool cleaner advised that the OP should use XYZ pool builder because "they both work hand in hand with each other". What kind of reccomendation is that? I quick search on myfloridalicense.com showed me that NEITHER of them had contractors licenses and the pool cleaner had pictures of him digging up plumbing on his FB page!

To waffle on... There's a mentality that we should get a bargain with absolutely everything. Hey, if I google search pool cleaners in my area, I can get pool service for $40 a month! That's just $10 a visit! Why wouldn't you? So many pool owners look at a pool and see if it's clear, it's good to go. I watched a pool service tech pull up outside a neighbor's pool yesterday, go in with a jug of chlorine and walk out exactly one minute later and drive off. The owner of the house lives in Indiana. The person who I was standing beside, said that they used to hire that guy and they never took more than 10 minutes cleaning their pool. They charged $50 a month. Now she pays double that and has a tech that shows up sometimes twice a week with emailed chemical results measured with a TF-100 test kit.
 

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