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Thread: Advice from the board

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    Advice from the board

    Our contract states that the pool will be completed in 90 days. We will be at 90 days the day after thanksgiving. At the 90 day mark we will have just finished Shotcrete, plumbing and the wood support will be in place for our poured in place concrete coping. We have documented 12 working days of "downtime" days where nobody was working on our pool. We have also have several "1/2 days" an hour or two of work. They do not work on Sat. or Sun.

    We still need drains, masonry work, tile, ledgerstone, banding, decking, electric, pool equip. the rebuilding of a wall, sprinkers, lighting and pebble to be installed.

    We had 1 day of rain and lost a day as we hit water.

    I want to be fair and reasonable with our PB as he is doing a quality, but slow job building our pool.

    How should I address this and what should I expect? Should I start docking him from the ballon payment at the end of the build?

    Love to hear both side consumer and people in the industry. Thanks!
    18,900 Stonescapes Tahoe Blue xtra black, 8 jet Spa, Pentair inteliflo VS , Pentair FNS 60 DE, Inteliclor40, Pentair 400,000 Mastertemp heater, 3 spillovers powered by a Pentair 1 HP whisperflo pump, The pool Cleaner, 2 Intellibright color changing lights and 400 sq ft. of Heliocol roof mounted solar.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Brentr's Avatar
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    Re: Advice from the board

    Do not pay anymore money. What are the payment schedules? Unfortunately we had a great PB that only required 1k up front in order to pull permits. Most of the rest of the money was given to him a couple of weeks after we were swimming, of course we had our pool completed in 21 days however the contract stated 30days. I guess we were fortunate.
    5,775 gal, IG free form, Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish, 2 swim out benches, Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues, StaRite Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter replaced with Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15, Polaris 360, Pentair 300w Light upgraded to Pentair IntelliBrite (OMG what a huge difference) , Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers, solar cover, TF-100 test kit, Pentair Deck Jet, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer (Makes testing a breeze), Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Margarita Concoction Machine,
    Pics of our Spool ( Social Pool) being built Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

  3. Back To Top    #3
    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: Advice from the board

    Here's the consumer side, as I see it.

    Unless schedule is of higher importance to you than cost or scope (completed features, quality of materials and installation) I would urge you to exercise the most flexibility in this area. You will drive yourself crazy with frustration if you dwell on this. During my build two years ago I was often so angry I could spit -- and this emotional stress occasionally leaked out in the form of e-mails and phone calls (to a secretary, of course--real construction folks don't return calls) that were yet more exasperating and, in total, were not effective in moving up the completion date even one day.

    I wasn't as fortunate as Brent. The builder stipulated a completion deadline of 4 weeks, with a 2 week extension (if necessary due to unforeseen and extraordinary circumstances beyond their control....) Ha! Every day the unforeseen was seen. We were able to swim in just under 4 months after permit approval. I certainly know a little of what you're feeling, as do many others. If it makes you feel any better, start a diary and detail every time a sub doesn't show up or a pipe goes in wrong and the outrageous indifference evidenced by the general contractor and his/her cronies.... you get the picture. It won't help your build as much as being on site with questions and design plans firmly in hand.

    Not many customers actually end up in litigation; most items are eventually redressed by the contractor, after a thousand or so phone calls. Even if you're feeling angry, don't show it. You'll get better results if you're cool, cool, cool... and determined.

    Good luck to you. I'm sure you'll find lots of sympathy and some good advice from the members here. Hang in there!
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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  4. Back To Top    #4
    Brentr's Avatar
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    Re: Advice from the board

    Polyvue makes a great point. If your PB is a great person you might be able to talk him into some upgrades or freebees. Perhaps a SWG thrown in or upgrades in lighting. This might calm down some of your fustration. I was very anxious and wanted things done to a T, however all turned out for the better. We always just had another drink and looked forward to the day we would be swimming.
    5,775 gal, IG free form, Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish, 2 swim out benches, Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues, StaRite Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter replaced with Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15, Polaris 360, Pentair 300w Light upgraded to Pentair IntelliBrite (OMG what a huge difference) , Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers, solar cover, TF-100 test kit, Pentair Deck Jet, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer (Makes testing a breeze), Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Margarita Concoction Machine,
    Pics of our Spool ( Social Pool) being built Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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    Re: Advice from the board

    Whether it's the weekend project or our work for which we get paid, how many of us have things always go as planned?

    If your PB is doing a good job and you are happy with the quality of the work and you have an open line of communication with him, you can change all that very quickly by bringing pressure on him to hurry up or badgering him for something you haven't paid for.

    If you can get good work and good communication right to the end, you will be ahead of a high percentage of people who have pools built.

    (BTW, the stupid contractor took 2 1/2 years for our pool.......he was just so charming the wife never complained)
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Advice from the board

    You have received good advice... I would add that since the season is over and you are not in a hurry to get swimming (unless you live in Australia) and if the builder is doing good work, I would not rock the boat. Sometimes with a slower process, you end up with a better end product, than if you try to rush things along!

    8000 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, 12" sand filter (don't have the specs on the pump), TF100 test kit
    Handy Links: PoolMath, TF-100 Test Kit, Pool School, CYA-Chlorine Chart
    "Shock" is a process, not a product!

  7. Back To Top    #7

    In the Industry

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    Re: Advice from the board

    Wow most of you guys have to wait a long time. Most of the builders here get their builds done in 1-2 weeks, permits and all included. About 99.9% in 1 week. One of the builder's motto's is "We dig Monday, you swim on Sunday".

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    Re: Advice from the board

    Thank you so much for your advice. Let me add a little more detail.

    Our PBer only subs out the steel, shotcrete and pebble. No other subs. His small crew does everything else.

    When researching builders his references all said the same thing that he has trouble with meeting deadlines but builds a beautiful and high quality pool. We loved his work and his prices are very good for things that the others charged a great deal more for like poured in place coping, banding, masonry work etc.

    He also had the best payment schedule of all the builders. 14 payments with a decent chunk at the end.

    When we met I discussed this with him and asked for a worst case time frame to be included in the contract. He agreed and put the 90 days on the contract.

    I agree wtih both sides of what everyone has said-

    We are not in swim season- so don't push it

    He is a nice guy that doesnt communicate well as his guys just kind of show up or do not show up, but I like the guy.

    I guess I am hung up on the fact that his worst case scenario has come and gone but we seem so far from finishing. Why have the deadline in the contract.
    18,900 Stonescapes Tahoe Blue xtra black, 8 jet Spa, Pentair inteliflo VS , Pentair FNS 60 DE, Inteliclor40, Pentair 400,000 Mastertemp heater, 3 spillovers powered by a Pentair 1 HP whisperflo pump, The pool Cleaner, 2 Intellibright color changing lights and 400 sq ft. of Heliocol roof mounted solar.

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Brentr's Avatar
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    Re: Advice from the board

    Don't worry, you will be quite surprised what can get done in a couple of weeks provided you have great weather. Hang in there and you will be relaxing soon.
    5,775 gal, IG free form, Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish, 2 swim out benches, Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues, StaRite Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter replaced with Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15, Polaris 360, Pentair 300w Light upgraded to Pentair IntelliBrite (OMG what a huge difference) , Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers, solar cover, TF-100 test kit, Pentair Deck Jet, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer (Makes testing a breeze), Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Margarita Concoction Machine,
    Pics of our Spool ( Social Pool) being built Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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    frankthailand's Avatar
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    Re: Advice from the board

    (BTW, the stupid contractor took 2 1/2 years for our pool.......he was just so charming the wife never complained) [/quote]

    Modest as well i see.

    Happy swims Frank
    Hello all from the land of smiles. Thailand. 5mx9mx1.5 63000L 16300 gall, pebbletex,
    pentair 1hp whisperflow, tagelus TA60 SF, swg monarch esc24 {a bit small for the tropics} 3 returns, 1 skimmer, 2 astral 100watt lights. Planned and built by me
    an AUSSIE expat living thailand for 18 years.

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Lershac's Avatar
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    Re: Advice from the board

    What exact penalties are enumerated in the contract if he exceeds the 90 days? If there aren't any specific penalties like "$XXX deducted from final payment", or " something like that... the only thing you are entitled to is to exit the contract as he is not living up to it.

    If you accept without comment his exceeding the contract deadline you accept defacto that its ok. You should notify him, in writing, that he is breaking the contract and you will allow him to continue to work under the other terms of the contract, but reserve the right to exercise your exit from the contract at a later date if you continue to be dissatisfied with his progress. Then rationally talk to him, and tell him you are just protecting your rights, but so far you are otherwise pleased with his work. Be pleasant about it even.

    If things go farther downhill you want to be able to cut him off and get him unentangled from you.

    Just protect your rights under the contract, or you risk losing them.
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: Advice from the board

    We are a month in on our pool build and we love our contractor. We understand that things out of their control happen. It is not swim season so we are not worried about the time frame. What is more important is the quality of work they do and we were told our project from start to finish will take 4 months or more. This is including landscaping front and back.

    My sister in Texas was shocked that we did not have our pool built in a week. It has taken a week for plumbing including working through the weekend and they are not slacking. I'm actually glad it is moving at this pace so I can have more time to change things as they progress and learn from this site. We have already added another pump from the recommendation of one of the members on this site and a few days ago I asked them to add another fiber optic light in the grotto.

    If they are doing a great job I would suggest just to hang in there. You will be swimming before you know it
    Carlsbad, CA, 45x23.5, 27,000 gallon free form pool being installed now, 870 sq ft,18" raised spa w wide vanishing edge, grotto, sun shelf, 6 ft deep end, 3.5 shallow, pentair variable speed pump, 2 pentair whisperflow pumps, pentair minmax 400 BTU heater, easy touch pentair control panel, 4 LED Intellibrite lights, 2 in the pool 1 in grotto and 1 in the spa

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Advice from the board

    Thanks to all for the advice.

    update-

    Per advice from this board we took a deep breath and expressed our concerns to the pool builder. He told us he screwed up on his time frame and said he was sorry. We asked for a new schedule. The one he gave us we can live with. Thanks to everyone for your advice!
    18,900 Stonescapes Tahoe Blue xtra black, 8 jet Spa, Pentair inteliflo VS , Pentair FNS 60 DE, Inteliclor40, Pentair 400,000 Mastertemp heater, 3 spillovers powered by a Pentair 1 HP whisperflo pump, The pool Cleaner, 2 Intellibright color changing lights and 400 sq ft. of Heliocol roof mounted solar.

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Brentr's Avatar
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    Re: Advice from the board

    Good luck, post pics of your pool in progress. It sounds like a great pool.
    5,775 gal, IG free form, Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish, 2 swim out benches, Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues, StaRite Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter replaced with Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15, Polaris 360, Pentair 300w Light upgraded to Pentair IntelliBrite (OMG what a huge difference) , Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers, solar cover, TF-100 test kit, Pentair Deck Jet, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer (Makes testing a breeze), Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Margarita Concoction Machine,
    Pics of our Spool ( Social Pool) being built Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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