How to deal with the Rain?

[cmcnitt]

We have been getting a lot of rain lately in Atlanta, GA. It seems to rain heavy every afternoon for the last 2 weeks. I have been shocking the pool like crazy lately trying to get the FC back up to a normal level. I am new to pool management and I feel like I am wasting a lot of chemicals.

I have shocked my 20000gal vinyl pool 3 times in the last week using Leslie's Chlor Bright (32 oz of shock) and also have four 3"chlorine tabs floating around. My FC always falls back down to .5ppm within 1-2 days

Current readings:
FC=.5
TC=.5
pH=7.2
Alk=140
Cya measured at pool store 1 mo ago=65
Pool appears very cloudy and has been for about 2-3 weeks.

Every time I shock the pool, the water turns a greenish color and fades about 24 hours later. I have also been battling some sort of a metal stain. I have had to do the ascorbic acid and metal free treatment twice this summer already. The stain disappears almost immediately but returns about a month later. The pool store sold me on the expensive Jack's Blue Magic to prevent the stain from coming back but it has not worked.

I used to trust my guy at the pool store but after finding your site I'm learning that I was getting ripped off the whole time. My pool has never looked so terrible. Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Thank you

 

[JasonLion]

Shocking your pool requires bringing it up to the correct FC level and holding it at that FC level until all of the algae is dead, normally measured by the elimination of all CC and having the FC level hold steady overnight. Then you need to be careful not to allow the FC level to fall below the min level for your CYA level. The shock FC level and the min FC level are based on your current CYA reading, see Ben's Best Guess chart, there is a link in my signature. 32 oz of Chlor Bright will only raise your FC by about 10, which isn't enough to get to shock levels with CYA of 65.

If you have been shocking with Chlor Bright you will have been increasing your CYA level. 65 is acceptable but already fairly high. Your current reading will be higher because of all the Chlor Bright, probably by something around 30 ppm higher (assuming 96 oz of Chlor Bright) and then higher still because of the trichlor in the tabs. You will be much better off if your CYA level doesn't go above 90. I recommend that you switch to bleach as a chlorine source to avoid adding any more CYA and that you get your CYA level tested again to see how high you have gone.

If you have metals in your water you will need to use a sequesterant. Jack's Magic products are great products and will work if you use them correctly. There are other products on the market that do the same thing, some are a little less expensive though few have as good a reputation as Jack's Stuff. You need to use enough for the level of metals in your pool and use regular maintinace doses to maintain the correct level. Unfortunatly, dealing with algae and metal stains at the same time is problematic. Once the stains are removed it should be possible to keep them off with appropriate levels of sequesterant.

 

[cmcnitt]

Thank you for the information. I have a few additional questions:

-Is there a good testing kit on the market for metals? I had my water tested 2 months ago and they found .4ppm Copper and 0 ppm Iron. When I had it retested at the same store 3 weeks ago the copper was 0. I thought you can't get rid of the metal, you could only sequester it.

-What kind and how much liquid bleach/chlorine should I use and do you add it in slowly or just dump it all in at once?

-Is there an alternative form of metal sequesterant that is effective but not as expensive as Jack's? And if so how will I know how much to use based on the results of the metal test? The bottles generally just tell you to add a certain amount per size of the pool but is that enough to combat a high metal count?

Thank you again for your help.

 

[NWMNMom]

Use the bleach calc links in the stickies for the correct amount to use.

As far as the metal sequesterants go, there IS a lot of difference in price out there. Even the stuff you buy at Menards or Walmart is much cheaper and does exactly the same thing. I bought mine at Menards (Metal Myte) for $9 for the large bottle but I believe WM carries the HTH Brand for around the same price. Kmart even carries it. Thank you to all those BigBox places carrying the softside pools these days, chemicals are cheaper at some of those places. Watch for their end of season clearances when you can get some, like the metal sequesterants, for as little as $1 per bottle! No expiration on that!

 

[JasonLion]

You can calculate quantities of bleach using my Pool Calculator, see the link in my signature. You want to use unscented (sometimes called original scent) bleach. Look for the percentage bleach on the label, higher is more effective. Ultra bleach is usually 6%, which is good, but some discount brands can be as low as 2.75%, which is usually not such a good deal. Bleach can be added by pouring it slowly into the skimmer or in front of a return. Take your time, a full jug should take more than a minute to pour.

The Taylor metal test kits are quite good. The low range copper kit is fairly inexpensive but only goes up to 1 ppm. The full range copper and the iron tests cost a little more. Metals can "disappear" when they have deposited as stains on your pool. In very rare cases they will clump into particules large enough to be caught by the filter. Metals held in solution by a sequesterant will still test as present.

The usual directions for sequsterants are generally for up to 1 ppm of metals. Higher levels of metals may require more. I use Jack's products, perhaps someone else can suggest some alternatives that might be cheaper.

0.4 ppm of copper is marginal for staining, particuarly on vinyl. There is at least a possibility that your stains are from something else. Though if you have used the ascorbic acid treatment sucessfully that does tend to confirm metals.

 

[cmcnitt]

So according to the pool calculator, if I want to shock the pool with 6% bleach, I would need 809 oz. This is a assuming I have a stabilizer level of 60-90, beginning FC of .5 and want to shock it to 20ppm (20,000 gal pool). That seems like a lot of bleach but maybe that's what needs to be done.

 

[JasonLion]

You seem to be doing all the calculations correctly. Carrying bleach home is probably the one disavantage of the BBB method of pool care. In some states you can get 10% or 12% bleach (often called liquid chlorine or liquid shock) from the pool stores, which is half the volume for a given effectiveness, but in other states they are not allowed, or not willing, to sell it.

When you buy bleach you should get more than you think you will need and store it somewhere comparatively cool and dark. That will save you extra trips to the store later.

 

[cmcnitt]

Thanks for the information. One more question. Assuming i get the FC back to a normal level and maintain it there, on average, how often will I have to shock it with this much chlorine? And should I add smaller maintenance doses every few days to avoid the higher quantity shocking?

 

[rimshaker]

So according to the pool calculator, if I want to shock the pool with 6% bleach, I would need 809 oz. This is a assuming I have a stabilizer level of 60-90, beginning FC of .5 and want to shock it to 20ppm (20,000 gal pool). That seems like a lot of bleach but maybe that's what needs to be done.

That's not so bad. Walmart has ultra bleach in 174oz bottles under the "Great Value" brand name at about $2.24 each. 809oz is 4.65 bottles, so just use 5 bottles for good measure and a little extra "kick."

 

[JasonLion]

Once the pool gets under control you shouldn't have to shock hardly at all. Most years I shock once in the spring when I open the pool. The trick is to keep the free chlorine level high enough based on the recommendations in Ben's best guess chart, see the link in my signature, and your current CYA level. This can be tricky when there is lots of rain but if you can anticipate the rain and bring your FC level up in advance you can normally keep things under control and not need to shock.

 

[cmcnitt]

Just an update:

Went to the Leslie's pool store to get my water tested one last time before shocking and everything was pretty close to what I had written the other day. But what I thought was weird was that the Cyanuric Acid level was only 50ppm (inside their "normal" range). He told me shock it with their chlor bright product and I would be set.

I didn't believe that Cya level so I bought some test strips and it was sky high (at least 150 ppm). Is their motivation to report the Cya level so low so that I keep using their Chlor Bright product? Are there any major problems with a Cya level so high besides having to use more bleach?

I recalculated how much bleach to add using your pool calculator and have added 6 bottles (174 oz Ultra Bleach from Walmart). We'll see what happens.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[duraleigh]

Don't trust the test strips. If Leslie's used them too, it's a good example of how far off they can be. Find a store that uses a turbidity test for CYA and trust that.

 

[cmcnitt]

Update

Good Morning...
I have been using the bleach method for chlorinating my pool for the last 2 weeks and the pool is looking a lot better. Cloudiness is gone, stain is fading, water nice and blue. My only concern is that I have not been able to get the FC level to stabilize. Every 2-3 days I add more bleach (182 oz of 6%) but it falls back to 0 FC within 24 hours. I shocked it 2 weeks ago with 6 bottles of 174oz 6% bleach and got the FC to 3ppm for a few days but have not been able to keep it there. Do I need to shock it again? How often does you typically add more bleach to your pool to keep it at and acceptable level (i.e. every other day, once a week, etc). I'm just curious what the average person does.

Current readings:
20000 Gallon Vinyl Pool
Hardness: 200
TC: 0
FC: 0
pH: 7.2 (but dropping)
Alk: 130
Stab: 130

 

[JasonLion]

You need to add bleach daily, preferably in the evening. To shock the pool with CYA (stabalizer) of 130 you would need to bring the FC level up to 30. With CYA of 130 the regular day to day level of FC should be 10 to 15.

Having a CYA level that high makes it very difficult to keep the pool clean and safe. I recommend replacing water to at least get you CYA down below 100, and preferably down to 60-80.

 

[Poseidon]

Re: Update

Good Morning...
I have been using the bleach method for chlorinating my pool for the last 2 weeks and the pool is looking a lot better. Cloudiness is gone, stain is fading, water nice and blue. My only concern is that I have not been able to get the FC level to stabilize. Every 2-3 days I add more bleach (182 oz of 6%) but it falls back to 0 FC within 24 hours. I shocked it 2 weeks ago with 6 bottles of 174oz 6% bleach and got the FC to 3ppm for a few days but have not been able to keep it there. Do I need to shock it again? How often does you typically add more bleach to your pool to keep it at and acceptable level (i.e. every other day, once a week, etc). I'm just curious what the average person does.

Current readings:
20000 Gallon Vinyl Pool
Hardness: 200
TC: 0
FC: 0
pH: 7.2 (but dropping)
Alk: 130
Stab: 130

All pools consume some chlorine every day. Just to give you an example, my pool uses about 2.5 ppm per day, (depending on weather and other factors) with stsbilizer (cya) at about 20 (test only goes down to 30). Sunlight (UV rays) algae, organics, and bathers all contribute to chlorine consumption. Regardless of your method of chlorination, the chlorine will need to be replenished daily. 182 oz of 6% liquid chlorine in your 20,000 gallon pool is about 4.25 ppm FC. If your pool uses that much per day, something other than sun is consuming it, considering your cya level.

 

[Rangerman]

Carrying bleach home is probably the one disavantage of the BBB method of pool care.
When you buy bleach you should get more than you think you will need and store it somewhere comparatively cool and dark. That will save you extra trips to the store later.

I have 34 bottles of bleach in my pool barn, as of this morning anyway!! Found a good buy . . . :-D :-D :-D

 

[Guest]

Just an update:

Went to the Leslie's pool store to get my water tested one last time before shocking and everything was pretty close to what I had written the other day. But what I thought was weird was that the Cyanuric Acid level was only 50ppm (inside their "normal" range). He told me shock it with their chlor bright product and I would be set.

I didn't believe that Cya level so I bought some test strips and it was sky high (at least 150 ppm). Is their motivation to report the Cya level so low so that I keep using their Chlor Bright product? Are there any major problems with a Cya level so high besides having to use more bleach?

I recalculated how much bleach to add using your pool calculator and have added 6 bottles (174 oz Ultra Bleach from Walmart). We'll see what happens.

Thanks for all the advice.

Chlorbrite is dichlor. It will add .9 ppm CYA for every 1 ppm FC! Continued use of it will cause your CYA levels to rise quickly.
Test strips are NOT accurate in testing CYA, don't trust them for that test. Get yourself a good test kit and test your own water! You will save yourself a lot of headaches and save money by not buying unnecessary chemicals!

The biggest problem with a high CYA pool (besides the fact that high CYA can damage plaster pools) is that testing the water becomes problematic since you need to maintain very high FC levels for normal chlorination and even higher levels for shocking. This means you will need a test kit that uses the FAS-DPd method of chlorine testing such as the TF testkit www.tftestkits.com or a Taylor K-2006

IMHO, the TF testkit is a better value for the money. Both use Taylor reagents.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Carrying bleach home is probably the one disavantage of the BBB method of pool care.
When you buy bleach you should get more than you think you will need and store it somewhere comparatively cool and dark. That will save you extra trips to the store later.

I have 34 bottles of bleach in my pool barn, as of this morning anyway!! Found a good buy . . . :-D :-D :-D

HOW did you get them home?!?

Have some of that good POP (pool owner patience) it took me about 2 weeks after switching to BBB to figure out how to get the CL at the right level and hold it. Just keep adding enough to get the right level and add it each day....until whatever it is that is consuming your CL goes bye bye...FYI I had a 110 reading for CYA and after 2 partial drains/refills, it is easier to keep the CL at a stable 5pmm. Good luck.

 

[Casey]

I add about a 1/2 gallon every other day depending on weather and bather laods.

I'm due to be stocked this weekend on bleach so tomorrow I'll be calling every Tom, Dave and Harry for the best prices. :lol:

 

[Rangerman]

Carrying bleach home is probably the one disavantage of the BBB method of pool care.

I have 34 bottles of bleach in my pool barn, as of this morning anyway!! Found a good buy . . . :-D :-D :-D

HOW did you get them home?!?

Just rolled 'em out to the SUV in the shopping cart and loaded it up.
Lady in front of me said, "you must be the cleanest guy in town!" I replied, "it sure helps the pool". She had a stunned/blank look on her face. I knew I should just leave it at that.