AquaTrol not generating, salt level is at 0
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Meadow
0
What you are looking for in particular is any signs of burn mark or cold solder on the solder side of K1 and K2 relay. Focus on the solder pads inside the red box as shown in the picture. Your mainboard has another relay labeled as K3 for the timer and is irrelevant in this case.
If you would like to take this route, Safety must come first! Turn off the incoming AC power to the SWCG. Make sure to take pictures before you disconnect the wires so you can connect them all back in the right place. Loosen the two 5/16" hex screws at the bottom of the board, slide the mainboard upwards and pull it out towards you.
Get the salinity checked. If it's much higher than the box was reading, then it's almost definitely a bad cell.
Meadow
0
But there isn't a salinity reading in both polarities! At this time, Melanie can take the salt cell out for testing or inspect the mainboard, her call.
They already checked and say the cell is clean.
Pulling the board might not be something everyone wants to do.
If the salinity tests at over 3,800 ppm, I think that the cell is definitely bad.
Pulling the board might not be something everyone wants to do.
If the salinity tests at over 3,800 ppm, I think that the cell is definitely bad.
Meadow
0
The OP's controller is not receiving feedback from the salt cell and therefore, no salinity reading from the box to begin with. Because, either the cell itself went bad or there is a possibility that the relay solder had turned cold as we've seen over and over.
I am getting very confused on which cell i should get for my in-ground pool.
Most of the Hayward Aquatrol GLX-CEll-5, T-5 cell's that i have found for sale are for above ground pools. Am i using the correct Cell for my pool? Or does this Above ground Cell work for In-ground pools as well? Right now I have the GLX-CELL-5 Cell connected to my pool.
Please help.
Melanie
Well my board is reading 0 Salinity, lol! but i am going to get a tester and test my water.
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I live in a small town, there is no pool place close to take the Cell to for testing. I have to buy all my parts online because we don't have anywhere to get them here unfortunately.
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What you are looking for in particular is any signs of burn mark or cold solder on the solder side of K1 and K2 relay. Focus on the solder pads inside the red box as shown in the picture. Your mainboard has another relay labeled as K3 for the timer and is irrelevant in this case.
If you would like to take this route, Safety must come first! Turn off the incoming AC power to the SWCG. Make sure to take pictures before you disconnect the wires so you can connect them all back in the right place. Loosen the two 5/16" hex screws at the bottom of the board, slide the mainboard upwards and pull it out towards you.
I understand what you mean when you say look for burn marks, but what do you mean when you say to look for cold solder? What exactly is cold solder?
Meadow
0
Now I know why you haven't done so. But that's fine, looks like a new cell is in order anyway as I mentioned in post#2. And as James mentioned earlier, your Aquatrol can only take a T-5 cell.I live in a small town, there is no pool place close to take the Cell to for testing. I have to buy all my parts online because we don't have anywhere to get them here unfortunately.
My bad! I always assumed I am communicating with our Field techs.
Cold Solder joint is an electrical soldering joint where the joining metal or the solder has not been heated enough to form a proper joint. It often results in cracks in soldered joint over the period.
Can you spot a cold solder joint from the below example?
Now I know why you haven't done so. But that's fine, looks like a new cell is in order anyway as I mentioned in post#2. And as James mentioned earlier, your Aquatrol can only take a T-5 cell.
My bad! I always assumed I am communicating with our Field techs.
Cold Solder joint is an electrical soldering joint where the joining metal or the solder has not been heated enough to form a proper joint. It often results in cracks in soldered joint over the period.
Can you spot a cold solder joint from the below example?
No, I am not sure I could spot a cold solder joint. i really still don't understand that. lol!
also, I am getting very confused on which cell i should get for my in-ground pool.
Most of the Hayward Aquatrol GLX-CEll-5, T-5 cell's that i have found for sale are for above ground pools. Am i using the correct Cell for my pool? Or does this Above ground Cell work for In-ground pools as well? Right now I have the GLX-CELL-5 Cell connected to my pool. If i need a T-5 cell, which one is for in-ground pools?
There's no difference for in-ground vs above ground cells. You just need a basic Hayward T-5 cell.
GLX-CELL-5 not a GLX-CELL-5-W.
W means warranty cell, which has a 1 year warranty vs a 3 year warranty.
Regarding pulling the board, I typically only recommend pulling the board to look for burn marks for Prologic, AquaLogic or AquaPlus.
For Aquarite, it's usually the thermistor that goes bad and that's usually evident in the voltage readings or by looking at the thermistor.
For some reason, the solder fails at the legs of the relays on Prologic but not Aquarite.
As much as possible, I try to avoid having people take things apart unless it seems necessary.
Also, I usually don't recommend taking the cell to be tested at a pool store. The system provides enough information to evaluate the cell.
The box calculates the salinity from the performance of the cell. If the box reading for instant salinity is accurate in both polarities, the cell is good. Store testing does not provide any better information.
GLX-CELL-5 not a GLX-CELL-5-W.
W means warranty cell, which has a 1 year warranty vs a 3 year warranty.
Regarding pulling the board, I typically only recommend pulling the board to look for burn marks for Prologic, AquaLogic or AquaPlus.
For Aquarite, it's usually the thermistor that goes bad and that's usually evident in the voltage readings or by looking at the thermistor.
For some reason, the solder fails at the legs of the relays on Prologic but not Aquarite.
As much as possible, I try to avoid having people take things apart unless it seems necessary.
Also, I usually don't recommend taking the cell to be tested at a pool store. The system provides enough information to evaluate the cell.
The box calculates the salinity from the performance of the cell. If the box reading for instant salinity is accurate in both polarities, the cell is good. Store testing does not provide any better information.
Ok thanks for letting me know it doesn't matter about in ground or above ground. the GLX-CELL-5 is what is on there now. I have an Aquatrol board. You read my numbers and saw where it was registering 0 on my salt level, and suggested that my Cell went bad. so i am going to get a new Cell. Initially, i just wanted to know whether i needed to buy a new Cell or a new Circuit Board because i wasn't sure which one went bad. As far as the K-1766 salt test kit, i have to order it online, and that will take a few days to get and i really don't want to wait that long before replacing the Cell. I would like to resolve this as quickly as possible. as it is, the Cell will take a few days to get as well.
Ok, I'm 99% sure that it's a bad cell. It could be the board, but I don't think so.
You can pull it if you want to be sure.
If you can run a water sample to a pool store, that would tell us a lot.
Some places also test cells, so that's an option if you want to take the cell for testing and a water sample for salinity.
You can pull it if you want to be sure.
If you can run a water sample to a pool store, that would tell us a lot.
Some places also test cells, so that's an option if you want to take the cell for testing and a water sample for salinity.
Ok, thanks a lot for all your help.
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I don't have a pool store here. i am in a small town. but i am going to just get a new Cell since you are that sure. I do have a water tester here for chlorine, PH, and Alkalinity. but no salt test kit.
The current depends on the salinity and water temperature. Hayward has determined the amp draw based on salinity and water temperature for each cell.
So, if you know the current (amps) and water temperature, you can calculate salinity.
I'm not saying that the glx-pcb-rite can't have a solder failure. However, I can't recall ever seeing any.
So, if you know the current (amps) and water temperature, you can calculate salinity.
I'm not saying that the glx-pcb-rite can't have a solder failure. However, I can't recall ever seeing any.
How would i find out the (amps)? and once i found out that and temp., how would i calculate the salinity?
You don’t calculate the salinity. The box does that. You should use the K-1766 test kit to test the actual salinity and compare it to the box reading. When the cell and box are working correctly, the box and test will be in good agreement. If the cell begins to underperform, the box salinity will be lower than actual.
For example, if the test is reading 3,000 actual salinity and the box agrees, the cell is working at 100%.
However, if the test shows 3,000 and the box says 2,700, then the cell is underperforming by about 10% or producing at 90% of rated output.
Any salt test or box reading can be + or – up to 400 ppm. So, two different tests can be up to 800 ppm apart and still be within the test accuracy/precision.
The key is to test the salinity when the cell is new and compare it to the box. The difference should remain consistent until the cell begins to fail. They might be exactly the same, but they will probably be a few hundred apart.
For the first few years, the test and box should track along pretty well. When the cell begins to fail, the box will begin to go lower and lower than the test. If one does not realize that the box is reading too low, they usually add salt to make the box read correctly. As the cell fails more and more, the actual salinity keeps rising as salt is added to make the box happy.
Typically, the actual salinity gets to about 4,000 to 6,000 ppm before the cell fails completely.
I think that this is the most likely scenario in this case.
When the new cell is installed, the box will read the salinity correctly, and the high salt/amps light will come on and the water will need to be diluted to get the salinity down to a good level.
Other notes: The Hayward T-Cell uses 13 plates (blades). The 2 white wires go to the center plate and one black wire goes to each outer plate. This makes the box and cell work like a battery charger where the water between the plates is the batteries. Assuming 24 volts DC and 6 amps, it’s like there are 2 sets of (6) 4volt batteries in series being charged with the sets in parallel. The total amps are 6 amps x 6 cells or 3 amps x 12 cells (36 amps either way).
Amps are the measure of the flow of electrons. The amperage is directly proportional to the chlorine production and directly proportional to the salinity. On one side of a plate, a chloride ion loses an electron to become a chlorine radical and then combines with another chlorine radical to create chlorine gas. So, one electron, one chlorine radical produced.
Hayward is somewhat unique in calculating salinity. Many other major brands use a conductivity meter (AquaPure, AutoPilot, IntelliChlor). It’s basically the same type of test, the more electrons flowing, the more salt in the water.
A conductivity meter is sensitive to all charged ions, whereas the Hayward is sensitive to mainly the chloride ion. Since most of the TDS is salt, the readings should be in good agreement. The K-1766 is also sensitive mainly to chloride, so it should be in good agreement with the Hayward box as long as the cell is performing at 100%.
0…………Average salt level
89.....…Water temperature
30.1….…Voltage DC
0.00….…Amps
96p…….Percentage output
-0……….Instant salinity
AL-6..…Box type (AquaTrol with flow switch).
1.47…..Software revision.
Here is an example of a pool salinity conductivity meter. The good ones use temperature compensation.
PoolMeter™
Here is a chart that shows how conductivity varies with salinity.
Standard Solutions and Buffers
The Hayward uses a similar type of chart when calculating the salinity from the amperage and water temperature.
For example, if the test is reading 3,000 actual salinity and the box agrees, the cell is working at 100%.
However, if the test shows 3,000 and the box says 2,700, then the cell is underperforming by about 10% or producing at 90% of rated output.
Any salt test or box reading can be + or – up to 400 ppm. So, two different tests can be up to 800 ppm apart and still be within the test accuracy/precision.
The key is to test the salinity when the cell is new and compare it to the box. The difference should remain consistent until the cell begins to fail. They might be exactly the same, but they will probably be a few hundred apart.
For the first few years, the test and box should track along pretty well. When the cell begins to fail, the box will begin to go lower and lower than the test. If one does not realize that the box is reading too low, they usually add salt to make the box read correctly. As the cell fails more and more, the actual salinity keeps rising as salt is added to make the box happy.
Typically, the actual salinity gets to about 4,000 to 6,000 ppm before the cell fails completely.
I think that this is the most likely scenario in this case.
When the new cell is installed, the box will read the salinity correctly, and the high salt/amps light will come on and the water will need to be diluted to get the salinity down to a good level.
Other notes: The Hayward T-Cell uses 13 plates (blades). The 2 white wires go to the center plate and one black wire goes to each outer plate. This makes the box and cell work like a battery charger where the water between the plates is the batteries. Assuming 24 volts DC and 6 amps, it’s like there are 2 sets of (6) 4volt batteries in series being charged with the sets in parallel. The total amps are 6 amps x 6 cells or 3 amps x 12 cells (36 amps either way).
Amps are the measure of the flow of electrons. The amperage is directly proportional to the chlorine production and directly proportional to the salinity. On one side of a plate, a chloride ion loses an electron to become a chlorine radical and then combines with another chlorine radical to create chlorine gas. So, one electron, one chlorine radical produced.
Hayward is somewhat unique in calculating salinity. Many other major brands use a conductivity meter (AquaPure, AutoPilot, IntelliChlor). It’s basically the same type of test, the more electrons flowing, the more salt in the water.
A conductivity meter is sensitive to all charged ions, whereas the Hayward is sensitive to mainly the chloride ion. Since most of the TDS is salt, the readings should be in good agreement. The K-1766 is also sensitive mainly to chloride, so it should be in good agreement with the Hayward box as long as the cell is performing at 100%.
0…………Average salt level
89.....…Water temperature
30.1….…Voltage DC
0.00….…Amps
96p…….Percentage output
-0……….Instant salinity
AL-6..…Box type (AquaTrol with flow switch).
1.47…..Software revision.
Here is an example of a pool salinity conductivity meter. The good ones use temperature compensation.
PoolMeter™
Here is a chart that shows how conductivity varies with salinity.
Standard Solutions and Buffers
The Hayward uses a similar type of chart when calculating the salinity from the amperage and water temperature.
ok, thanks, i had misunderstood your statement, lol. thanks for the information. and i will get one of those test kits, i will order it online. its a good thing to have on hand.
Ok, last question, should i change that AL-6 reading to 5? being its a Tcell5 i am using?
thanks for your help!