New pool owner - Need help cleaning

[Sgowitt]

Good evening all! I just bought a new home about a month ago, and am the proud owner of a new pool. I have never owned a pool before so this is all new to me! I am **** bent on maintaining this pool on my own, against the advice of everyone I know in AZ.

Its important to know that I don’t believe the previous owners took good care of this pool. The filters were caked in a half inch thick green substance when I took over, and there is a thick white calcium build up around the pool that I can’t get off.

Ive spent hundreds of dollars on chemicals and have the water as balanced as I can without draining and starting over, which I will do once the weather cools off.

In in the meantime, I am having trouble keeping it clean. The in ground pop up cleaners seem to do nothing but push the dirt around to the corners. The bottom and sides are brown until I sweep. And then an hour later they are brown again.

What is is the best solution to getting the dirt out of the bottom of the pool? Should I buy a pool vacuum since the in ground cleaners aren’t doing the trick? Is there a valve I should have on or off to maximize the cleaning ability?

The pump has multiple valves and lines - which i assume i have figured out. Before the pump, I have 2 inlet pipes which I assume are the skimmer and the drain. Then coming out of the filter I have two outlets which I assume are the cleaners and the return holes around the pool. There is also another small valve coming off of the filter that I don’t know the purpose of(it’s not the aerator sprinkler thing - that’s another valve).

Bottom line is, we love our pool and I want to keep it clean! Sorry for rambling! Please let me know if you have questions. Really looking forward to being involved in this community and learning more about pool care.

Thanks in advance!

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum! :handshake:

First step is to get a test kit.
Order a TF100 test kit
The only other real option for a test kit is a Taylor K-2006-C. Be careful comparing prices because the K-2006 comes in sizes, designated by a letter. The basic K-2006 has .75oz bottles. You need to get the K-2006-C to get the larger bottles that you want.
I also have the SpeedStir. It makes testing much easier.

When you get your test kit, post up your test results.

I suggest you read Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry and consider reviewing the entire Trouble Free Pool School book.

You may also want to get the Pool Math app.

 

[Sgowitt]

Thanks so much! Leslie’s pool supply does a full water test for free and they gave me the following info:

Ph: 8ppm
Calcium hardness: 480ppm
Cyanuric Acid: 150ppm
Phosphates: 0
Total dissolved solids: 5000ppm
Alkalinity: 90ppm
Free chlorine: 1.0

 

[mknauss]

That's great they do a 'free' test. Only thing is, we do not use those tests to provide guidance. We find that many times pool store employee’s primary goal is to sell product, not get your pool in perfect condition. As to whether that is because of improper training, lack of knowledge or just to sell products I will leave up to you. While you would think that a "professional” would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite.

To know what is going on with your pool we need accurate test results we can trust, and those don't come from a pool store. We base our pool care system on a pool owners testing and only adding what the pool needs, when it needs it.

So consider getting a proper test kit as I described in the earlier post. When you get the kit, post up your results and we can provide guidance based on them.

Take care.

 

[Sgowitt]

Ok will do. Thank you. In the meantime, is it possible to tell what all valves/pipes are on the pump and filter, based on the picture attached? I had a friend come look at it and label them however, I’m still not convinced I am operating it correctly.

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

Ive spent hundreds of dollars on chemicals and have the water as balanced as I can without draining and starting over, which I will do once the weather cools off.

I am having trouble keeping it clean. The in ground pop up cleaners seem to do nothing but push the dirt around to the corners. The bottom and sides are brown until I sweep. And then an hour later they are brown again.

Welcome to TFP Sgowitt

As mentioned, get the TF100 and learn to do your own testing. You'll spend less in chemicals which will pay for the kit since you'll be using common Bleach for a sanitizer and a few other things you can get at a big box store, Walmart and or a grocery store instead of the twenty five, thirty five dollar bottle of "try this" from the pool store. All of us have been there and now we're here because it works. It works very well as a matter of fact.
The likely reason you can't get the pool to stay clean is you have an imbalance in the chemistry and doing your own testing will help us help you. Same with that ring around your pool.

In pool school they have these recommendations:
There are five chemical levels that every pool owner needs to keep track of:
FC - Free Chlorine - A sanitizer which keeps your pool water safe and free of germs. Chlorine must be constantly replenished. (level depends on CYA)
PH - Acidity/Basicity - Needs to be kept in balance to prevent irritation and protect the pool equipment. (7.2 to 7.8)
TA - Total Alkalinity - Appropriate levels help keep the pH in balance. High levels can cause pH to rise. (60 to 120ppm, sometimes higher)
CH - Calcium Hardness - Appropriate levels help prevent plaster damage. High levels can cause calcium scaling. (220 to 350ppm, vinyl lower)
CYA - Cyanuric Acid - Protects chlorine from sunlight and determines the required FC level. (outdoors 30 to 50ppm, SWG 70 to 80ppm, indoors 0 to 20ppm)

If those readings from Leslie's are close to reality you'd need to replace about 2/3 of your water to reduce that Cyanuric Acid (CYA) down to something more reasonable like 50. If you are using pucks as a sanitizer they have chlorine and CYA. The chlorine gets used up but the CYA just keeps accumulating and at some point the chlorine can't do it's job. Back when I was being pool stored there were times when within a week my CYA would rise or fall by as much as 40 points even though I hadn't added any or drained any water. CYA is the one reading pool stores seem to have the hardest time getting repeatable accuracy.
There is a chart that shows what level of chlorine you need depending on your CYA. Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart
The chart doesn't go that high but if you had a CYA of 150 you'd need to keep the chlorine (FC) up around 13-16 ppm would be my guess. If you're at 1 ppm FC with high CYA it's just waiting to turn green.
If the pH is at 8 or above it would be nice to drop it down to 7.4-7.6

BUT, first you really do need a testing kit and trust us you'll more than get your money out of it with a sparkling clean pool.

 

[mknauss]

Sure.

The two lines going to the three way valve before the pump is the suction side. One is for the main drain and the other the skimmer. Most folks put most of the suction from the skimmer. It keeps the debris pulled off the top of the pool.

The return side appears to have two conventional ball valves, both closed, that go to some kind of water features? The three way after them appears to split to two returns.

There also appears to be a three way valve before the filter that allows you to bypass the filter? Not sure why that is there.

The suction side and return side three way valves are currently positioned to not restrict or direct flow any specific way. If you point the handle (the arrow) towards a line that line is then off. So on the suction side, I would set the valve so that the majority of the flow is coming from the skimmer.

On the return side, it is fine were it is as it is balanced to the returns. You might have to restrict the flow to those returns to make the two water features work correctly.

 

[Sgowitt]

Thank you so much! That’s very helpful. One of the blue ball valves is for a sprinkler feature. The other, we can’t figure out what it’s for. It seems to reverse/push water out of the hole under the skimmer in the pool. I assume this is where a vacuum would be connected, however, not sure why water would be pushed into pool instead of suction??

 

[mknauss]

I don't know. There are pressure side cleaners but I realized after I posted you have an infloor cleaning system. Just leave it off if it does not do anything!

Your two return lines off the three way valve I suspect direct water to either the in-floor or some regular returns. Your suction side 3 way valve is probably set as it is to pick up the dirt using the main drain. So you may have to leave that alone. You probably need to direct most if not all of your return flow to the infloor cleaners to make them work. I have no experience with those. I have a robot cleaner, simpler and far less electricity to operate than the infloor cleaner.

 

[Sgowitt]

Not a fan of the in ground cleaners thus far. Will likely buy something to pick up it’s slack.

Thanks again for your help. Really appreciate it!! I’ll order the kit and be back soon with results.

 

[Deb04]

I encourage you to get a recommended test kit too.

Think of it this way. If we could trust the Leslie test, the first thing we’d tell you to do is add chlorine, just to keep it from turning green. The next thing is to exchange at LEAST half of the water to get the CYA down (Note: since we can’t rely on a pool store test, I am NOT suggesting you do this now.) I’m sure in Aug in AZ you don’t want to do that, esp not without proof that it’s necessary. That proof would come from your own test kit.

I was reluctant to spend the money on a test kit at the beginning when I knew the pool store would do it for free. But then I read about people’s experiences, crystal clear water and low cost maintenance and I thought I’d give it a shot. I’ve never looked back and this is our 11th summer of the TFP method. I’ve saved many times over the cost of the test kit (and refills over the years) in pool chemicals. I spend about $500-600/yr on chemicals. Granted my swim season is shorter than yours and my pool is closed 6 months of the year, but other people in my area don’t even believe me when I say how little I spend.

It’s a great method and the people here are extremely helpful. They’ve gotten me through more than one perceived pool crisis.

Edit: I see you said, while I was typing, you’re going to get a test kit. Congrats!

 

[Sgowitt]

So I finally got my TF-100 test kit and did my first test on my pool. I have been depending on Leslie's up until this point(I know thats not recommended). The cost there has been killing me!

Anyways, here are my results. I know that I need to drain and refill this winter. Swimming season is over here in AZ, so I want to get comfortable with this test kit and pool ownership before I drain and get a clean slate.

FC: 1.0
PH: 8.2
TA: 420
CH: 1250
CYA: 150

The CYA tube was so low, there was not a measurement labeled on the tube. I am estimating 150. I have a floating chlorine tab holder and have been shocking every couple of weeks. Also added Muriatic Acid a couple of times.

Any advice to get these levels under control are super appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[JamesW]

You're at high risk for scaling. I would begin to work down the TA as quickly as possible. Keep the pH at about 7.2 as much as possible.

Put your numbers in PoolMath to calculate the CSI.

Also, even though you don't have a salt system, I recommend that you get a K-1766 salt test kit and check the salinity.

The TDS reading at 5,000 ppm seems odd for a non salt pool.

What are the readings for the fill water?

 

[kadavis]

You might have Venturi type skimmer. With the valve open water will come out the back of skimmer at the bottom and shoots a strong stream across skimmer and out into pool. Also the return side three-way valve is in a 50/50 position which might not enable the infloor cleaning valve with enough pressure to be effective.

 

[Sgowitt]

Thanks so much. I just use the muriatic acid to bring down the TA right?

Not sure on the fill water. Just test from the house to find out I assume?

 

[mknauss]

Test the CH, TA, and pH of your water you use to fill the pool.

I would suggest drain and refill rather than mess with that water. Start fresh.

 

[Sgowitt]

Test the CH, TA, and pH of your water you use to fill the pool.

I would suggest drain and refill rather than mess with that water. Start fresh.

Thanks so much for the help! I tested my fill water - CH is 225, TA is 140, PH is 7.8. While it is drained - any other maintenance i should do? I'd like to do it on my own if possible. Also, any tips on removing the white line around the top of pool? I bought a chemical from the pool store and a pumas stone - it wont come off. Wondering if a pressure washer might do the trick while its drained?

 

[mknauss]

You have Colorado river water.

To remove the waterline buildup, if significant, is to hire a service for kieserite blasting. But that should have been done prior to draining.

You can try diluting muriatic acid 4 parts water to one part water. But you should have water in the pool to just under the scale build up so that the MA does not etch the plaster.

 

[Sgowitt]

Are there any DIY or how tos for draining the pool? Looked around and couldn’t find one....

 

[mknauss]

In Arizona, you have little chance of the pool popping out of the ground. You do have the chance of plaster damage. Any time you remove the water from a pool plaster can pop off, crack, etc.

Why are you draining?

You can exchange some water without draining.

If you place a low volume sub pump in the deep end and pull water from there while adding water in the shallow end (through a skimmer or into a bucket on a step so you lessen the water disturbance) you can do a fairly efficient exchange. That is assuming the water you are filling with is the same temperature or warmer than your pool water. If your fill water is much cooler than your pool water, then switch it. Add the water to the deep end (hose on bottom) and pull water from the top step.

The location of the pump and fill hose may change if you have salt water, high calcium, etc.
In my pool, with saltwater and high calcium when I drain, I put the pump in the deep end and hose in shallow end. The water in the pool weighs more per unit volume than the fill water from the hose.

Be sure to balance the water out and water in so the pool level stays the same. Also be sure your pool pump is disabled during this process. Once started do not stop until you have exchanged the amount of water you wish.