Ugly green pool - how much Chlorine to add? (pics included)

[Guest]

Amazingly, not all pools are installed with automatic fills. Perhaps I'm lazy, but I can't imagine not having one.

Not to hijack the thread, but just have to put my .02 in on auto fills: I hate them!!! I refuse to install them!! Glorified toilet bowl floats that stick and waste water, and most folks don't even know they are running!!! By the way, I hate them!!

Soap box folded up and put away. Back to our regularly scheduled programming......

Bruce

 

[polyvue]

Amazingly, not all pools are installed with automatic fills. Perhaps I'm lazy, but I can't imagine not having one.

Not to hijack the thread, but just have to put my .02 in on auto fills: I hate them!!! I refuse to install them!! Glorified toilet bowl floats that stick and waste water, and most folks don't even know they are running!!! By the way, I hate them!!

Bruce -
Well, if this is an example of your attitude, I shall decline to discuss their obvious merits. s'pose you don't much care for salt water chlorine generators either? where does this end? why not get rid of centrifugal pumps (they waste electricity, create noise and eventually break)... just stir the pool water for 5 hours daily with a big stick! My daughter thinks me a Luddite for not wanting to be tethered to a cell phone 24/7. Geesh.
_____________________________________________________________

HardTrance9 -
How does the MS pool look these days? Is the water any clearer after the drain/refill?
Last test results posted on November 2: CYA = 100 ppm and pH = 8.2
Keeping the Free Chlorine up?

I'm beginning to feel like these pools are my kids, so can only imagine what you feel.

 

[HardTrance9]

HardTrance9 -
How does the MS pool look these days? Is the water any clearer after the drain/refill?
Last test results posted on November 2: CYA = 100 ppm and pH = 8.2
Keeping the Free Chlorine up?

I'm beginning to feel like these pools are my kids, so can only imagine what you feel.

Hi there!

My pleasure if you fill these as if they are like your kids hehe..

Ok, so today we are preparing everything to shock the pool.. (MS on my signature)

Today's results after emptying 50% of the pool and refill with fresh water:

FC: 0 (before 6.0)
CC: 0 (before 1.0)
pH: 8.2 (before the same)
TA: 170 (before 150)
CH: 250 (before 400)
CYA: 40 (before 100)

So I as read, first is to lower the pH.

Pump is running (already did the backwash for 1 minute and cleaned the filter for 30 secs. ... lots of green water came out, until it was cristal clear...). Also the pressure was before 9 PSI and after this, it went up to 15 PSI.

We bought Muriatic Acid from Alen, but here they don't have in the label the % of this acid... today is a Holiday here, so no one I can reach...

So we added 1.2 liters of MA considering the effects if it's 15.7% or 31.45% aprox. Will test in 10 more minutes (20 min. already passed).

After the pH is lowered between 7.0 and 7.4, we have two options:

We have Cloralex from Alden (green bottle, sodium hipclorite, 900 ml each) and we have lots of Trichlor powder..

Reading the Chlorine/CYA chart from Chem Geek and Pool school, it says that for CYA level of 40, my shock level should be 16?? Is this correct?

I was planning to add Trichlor to raise a little the CYA and the FC.. Planning on add 650 grams or 23 Oz so, FC would raise by 17 and CYA by 10 (final CYA would be 50??, not sure if this is how you read it?) and lower pH by 0.91.

Or do you recommend adding only Cloralex liquid 5.25% 350 oz or 10 liters to raise FC to 16 only??

Any help would be appreciated during today... as I will be spending hours here...

Many thanks!!!

 

[HardTrance9]

Here is the first and second pH tests done today..

First picture shows with no Muriatic Acid added at all..

Second pic, shows level after 1.2 liters of MA added... (30 after we added the 1.2 lts. of MA)

Just added right now 900 ml of MA to reduce more the pH and will check in another 30 min...

In the pictures it seems not to be a difference, but the second test looked not so purple as the first one.. sorry for the bad picture..

Too bad can't know the MA % level....

Third picture shows a brand that don't know if you know it? for balancing pools...

 

[HardTrance9]

Third test after adding 2.1 lts. of muriatic acid... (waited 30 mins)..

pH going still down... so we just added another 900 ml of MA and will wait another 30 min..

In 30 more minutes hopefully pH will be at the right level below 7.4-7.5

 

[HardTrance9]

Ok, so after the 3rd test I think we already hit the 7.2-7.3 mark which according to turning-your-green-swamp-back-into-a-sparking-oasis-t4147.html?hilit=green%20swamp it says to adjust the pH between 7.2 and 7.4.

So now we are going to add chlorine. Didn't get any reply on my question regarding Trichlor or Liquid bleach, but well, I guess I'll go with the Trichlor first and then the liquid beach..

EDIT:

Ok, so we will be adding 11 liters of bleach 5.25%-5.50%. Will not use Trichlor for now, unless you suggest to do it.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Sorry your posts weren't tended to sooner...

You seem to have a handle on things and are doing them correctly.

Bleach is probably best and you will need less with a lower CYA, you can always use some trichlor later to boost the CYA level, but 40 is ok for now.

Great job.

 

[HardTrance9]

Sorry your posts weren't tended to sooner...

You seem to have a handle on things and are doing them correctly.

Bleach is probably best and you will need less with a lower CYA, you can always use some trichlor later to boost the CYA level, but 40 is ok for now.

Great job.

Oh, ok! Many thanks you are right. Is better with lower CYA.. less bottles of bleach hehe.. Trichlor will be used later to boost the CYA then.. but after shocking the pool (my first shocking ever), the FC level won't remain high? I guess what I am trying to know is if after the shocking process, I can still add the trichlor without raising too much the FC and mantaining a maybe a 60-70 CYA level?

In 5 minutes will check again the FC level.. and see how much it went down or so..

Thanks FPM! Feels good to know we are doing fine so far..

 

[HardTrance9]

Ok, after adding 11 liters of 5.25-5.50% bleach, this were the results:

FC: 2
CC: 8
TC: 10

So next I guess I have to bring up the FC until I get FC: 16 as the calculator and charts says right? So we will be adding another extra 9 lts of bleach.. (In pool calc put "now: 2" and "target: 16" and says to ad 9,084 ml with 5.25% bleach).

So, proceeding now to add more chlorine...

It's getting late now.. and darker... just have like 45 min of extra day light.. My fear is for tomorrow morning.. .hope all of todays work won't be trashed. hehe..

 

[HardTrance9]

2nd test after adding 9 more liters of 5.25% bleach...

FC: 5 (before 2, before 0)
CC: 1.5 (before 8, before 0)
TC: 6.5 (before 10, before 0)
pH: 7.2-7.3
Water temperature: 25.5ºC

Don't have more bleach for now and it is dark now... But I have a lot of trichlor...

According to the pool calculator, I have to ad 15 oz of trichlor to raise FC by 11. Also the CYA will raise by 7, but don't know if it's bad... ? (pH would lower by 0.59)

Just want to give the last shot for the night... but. .I just read about the overnight FC loss test.. but I think that this does not apply to this pool because it is still a green swamp right?

Well, hope this is ok.... I will add some trichlor 15 oz...... gulp! :?:

Will see tomorrow in the morning what happened.... The overnight FC loss test I think I can make it later on?

Thanks!

 

[PaulR]

The overnight FC test is for when the pool has cleared up, to verify whether you are really all done.

Because the trichlor will lower pH, I would suggest not using it right away. Your current pH is about 7.2, adding all that trichlor would lower to 6.6, that is not good. Wait until the pH has gone up some before you use the trichlor.
--paulr

 

[polyvue]

2nd test after adding 9 more liters of 5.25% bleach...

FC: 5 (before 2, before 0)
CC: 1.5 (before 8, before 0)
TC: 6.5 (before 10, before 0)
pH: 7.2-7.3
Water temperature: 25.5ºC

Don't have more bleach for now and it is dark now... But I have a lot of trichlor...

I agree with FPM and PaulR -- even if you have a metric ton of Trichlor that has been saved up for a special occasion, resist the temptation to use it. Instead, calculate the amount of bleach needed to reach shock point (to 16 ppm, right?); and multiply that amount by 5. Example: If you need 350 oz. of 5.25% sodium chloride to reach shock level, multiply by 5 = 1750 oz. = 13.67 gallons or 51.75 liters. Send an employee or helper to a town with at least 3 or 4 super-mercados. Instruct them to buy 14 Gallons or 52 Liters of 5.25% bleach (sodium chloride). Keep all that bleach on site near the pool, ready to use as you need it.

According to the pool calculator, I have to ad 15 oz of trichlor to raise FC by 11. Also the CYA will raise by 7, but don't know if it's bad... ? (pH would lower by 0.59) Just want to give the last shot for the night... but. .I just read about the overnight FC loss test.. but I think that this does not apply to this pool because it is still a green swamp right?
Well, hope this is ok.... I will add some trichlor 15 oz...... gulp! :?:

Has this already been added? ¡qué lástima!

I think a lot of folks were occupied earlier and didn't see your initial posts, and I'm sorry that I was unable to respond until now. Fortunately, not much Trichlor was added. To summarize the good advice given today:

1) Bleach is best
2) Don't use Trichlor
3) Don't try to increase CYA until shocking process complete
4) Don't do an overnight free chlorine loss test, until shocking complete

and let me add

5) Test FC, CC and pH first thing in the morning (post results)

• -If your pH is too low, can you get 20 Mule Team® Borax Natural Laundry Booster?
  -You could also use Soda Ash, but this will increase both pH & TA -- not good.
  -I do not know if shocking at low pH (< 7.0) is good or bad. It might be OK.
  -Assume pH 6.7 CYA 47-50 ppm ← Use if test results unavailable or seem wrong

6) Adjust pH as needed to ~7.2 and Continue Shocking....

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

1) Bleach is best
2) Don't use Trichlor
3) Don't try to increase CYA until shocking process complete
4) Don't do an overnight free chlorine loss test, until shocking complete

and let me add

5) Test FC, CC and pH first thing in the morning (post results)

• -If your pH is too low, can you get 20 Mule Team® Borax Natural Laundry Booster?
  -You could also use Soda Ash, but this will increase both pH & TA -- not good.
  -I do not know if shocking at low pH (< 7.0) is good or bad. It might be OK.
  -Assume pH 6.7 CYA 47-50 ppm ← Use if test results unavailable or seem wrong

6) Adjust pH as needed to ~7.2 and Continue Shocking....

What he said...

 

[HardTrance9]

Ok guys!

Many thanks!!

I understand many of you could be busy but I appreciate your help! I just had the time to do it yesterday, today, tomorrow no problem so needed to take action hehe..

Yes.. I added little trichlor... will test half the CYA because I am running out of this one... (need to order some extra kits and reagents soon)...

Will post results of FC, CC and pH once I get there in some minutes to check on the pool.. right now is 11 am over here.

Thanks to all for clarifying about the Overnight Loss (just once the pool is cleared/shocked)..

Will post in some 30-60 minutes again..

If the pH is low, well, we just have Soda Ash over here now... will see how down it went..

 

[HardTrance9]

Hi all...

Here are the results: 1:15 pm over here...

FC: 27.5
CC: 1.5
TC: 29
TA: 150 (before 170)
pH: 7.0 (picture attached.. after adding 420 grams of Trichlor yesterday.. sorry!)
CYA: 48 (below 50, looks like 47-48... increased after the trichlor from 40 CYA yesterday)..
Temp.: 25ºC (yesterday 25.5ºC)

Well... should I worry now? The FC level seems to be higher than needed now... Shock level, according to estimated pool capacity was FC: 16 but now FC is 27.5

EDIT: However, when testing with the Cl/Br (OTO), the test showed (as you can see in the pictures, a value of about 2.0 right? Is this normal? I thought that would at least show the higher scale 5.0 (dark yellow) considering the shocking or chlorine level...

Even with CYA increasing from 40 to 48, the shock level should be FC:20 not FC: 27.5 .... oooops...

Or this could be normal? and then today I will test in the afternoon again and see if the FC went down?

Right now I will raise a little the pH to 7.2 using soda ash... (TA went down, but after adding soda ash, I guess will be up again)...

 

[HardTrance9]

Well.. we added 16 oz only of Soda Ash, waited 30 min. and the pH now is 7.2 again..

Also did the FC test again, as the numbers where quite high and rare..

This time the results were:

FC: 1.5
CC: 0.5
pH: 7.2 picture attached..

I think the first time I did something completely wrong... or don't know..

Will test today in the afternoon like at 5:00 pm (right now is 2:10 pm)

Will now proceed to add more bleach.. Will post later..

Saludos!

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Welll, I notice you are using two different kits, one before adding soda ash and a different one after. For consistency, are u testing with both? Just to make sure there isn't some difference between the two kits' results?

Also remind me how you are testing for FC? (I think you did something wrong too, if your FC was really 27.5 your solution would have been orangish.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

You sure you can't find Borax? In the laundry aisle of grocery stores?

 

[HardTrance9]

Welll, I notice you are using two different kits, one before adding soda ash and a different one after. For consistency, are u testing with both? Just to make sure there isn't some difference between the two kits' results?

Also remind me how you are testing for FC? (I think you did something wrong too, if your FC was really 27.5 your solution would have been orangish.

We are using two different pH - OTO kits for the pH tests, but if something reads "funny" we test with the other one to be sure of the reading.

Well for the FC what I do is take a water sample about 1 ft deep or little more, far from a return, then I take the chlorine vase and fill it with pool water up to the 10 ml mark, then add a spoon (tiny blue one) of the r-870 powder and mix.

Then I start with the r-871 solution drop by drop until pink turns transparent and the number of drops and divided by 0.5.

What I think actually could happen (but I am no expert) is that, after reading a lot on the chemicals, at first the pH was lower than 7.2 (maybe 6.9-7.0) and TA was 150. This I think makes the chlorine work differently than having a pH of 7.2 or 7.4 for example, although don't know at all the potential impact of this having different pH levels.

So, with pH lower than 7.2 the reading was FC:27.5

Afterwards, we raised the pH again to 7.2 and then added chlorin and waited 30 minutes. The final reading at 2 pm (today I won't be able to go and test again, is already too dark and got stuck with other things) was FC: 1.5 with a pH of still 7.2
so I was wondering if having the pH at a better level actually made the bleach/chlorine work "better" or work "as it should" and that's why it probably got consumed on the second reading?

I know that CYA is supposed to keep the FC but well, I was just wondering...

I will go and check tomorrow morning the levels again. Have lots of bleach still in case (25 liters cost like $16 USD).


EDIT:

And yes. I am very positive about the Borax over here (Mexico, Baja Sur). They don't sell it here nor in any other single State of the Country. Too bad. You can only get it from laboratories by special order if you tell them the chemical ingredients (tetra sodium carbonate I think). It is not expensive but those are not very known anywhere and maybe is to much of a hassle to deal with ordering, shipping, etc., just to have a small amount of Borax I believe.

Thanks!

 

[polyvue]

Also remind me how you are testing for FC? (I think you did something wrong too, if your FC was really 27.5 your solution would have been orangish.

Yes, test sample in the OTO test would be either VERY dark orange or reddish/brown I think. So, in this case, something went awry in the FAS-DPD test. Your subsequent testing demonstrated that the chlorine had largely been used up by this time.

Well for the FC what I do is take a water sample about 1 ft deep or little more, far from a return, then I take the chlorine vase and fill it with pool water up to the 10 ml mark, then add a spoon (tiny blue one) of the r-870 powder and mix.

Then I start with the r-871 solution drop by drop until pink turns transparent and the number of drops and divided by 0.5.

I bet you could do this in your sleep! The procedure sounds right to capture Free Chlorine... except the "divide by .5" part; I think this was a typo... you want to multiply by .5 to get FC. Add 5 drops of R-0003 afterward to check on CCs. If there's no pink, you don't need to add R-0086 to measure the CCs, just log CC = 0.0.

Afterwards, we raised the pH again to 7.2 and then added chlorin and waited 30 minutes. The final reading at 2 pm (today I won't be able to go and test again, is already too dark and got stuck with other things) was FC: 1.5 with a pH of still 7.2 so I was wondering if having the pH at a better level actually made the bleach/chlorine work "better" or work "as it should" and that's why it probably got consumed on the second reading?

I know that CYA is supposed to keep the FC but well, I was just wondering...

I don't know the answer, but I think re-testing showed that the chlorine was used up. The fact that CYA binds with chlorine requires that you shock at higher levels of chlorine so that there's more Free Chlorine available for killing the microorganisms (algae being one.) So the process is happening as you would expect in pool water that has been taken over by algae... tomorrow, don't go home before increasing Free Chlorine back up to shock level for the night. You don't want to give the algae an opportunity to keep growing.

Other than that minor point, it sounds like you're doing all the right things.

I will go and check tomorrow morning the levels again. Have lots of bleach still in case (25 liters cost like $16 USD).