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Thread: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

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    Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    We just had our gunite completed yesterday. When we measured it, our wetdeck/tanning ledge will only have 4” of water instead of 6” that we want. We originally wanted 9” of water but to avoid having an extra entrance step we settled with 6”. That’s the shallowest we can go, and even told the shotcrete crew that they can go an inch deeper, just make sure to not go shallower. But guess what, it’s shallower!

    We talked to our PB and said a possible solution is to increase our deck height. Wouldn’t increasing the deck height mess everything up, such as our benches and spa seats going deeper? Also the water will not be at the mid skimmer level.

    What would be our options to get the wetdeck depth fixed? Would jackhammer help? Would they have to redo the whole wetdeck and steps gunite?

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Wouldn’t increasing the deck height mess everything up, such as our benches and spa seats going deeper? Also the water will not be at the mid skimmer level.
    I think you are correct about why raising the deck and the normal water level is not acceptable.

    Do you have in writing on any pool plans or drawings what the ledge depth was to be?

    Keep pressing your PB. He is hoping you will rollover on a solution that is cheap for him.
    -Allen
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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    On the original plan we have the wetdeck depth written as 9” of water. I made some changes on the plan and wrote down 6” of water, and sent that to PB.
    What kind of fix should I push the PB to go with?

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by raindrop25 View Post
    On the original plan we have the wetdeck depth written as 9” of water. I made some changes on the plan and wrote down 6” of water, and sent that to PB.
    What kind of fix should I push the PB to go with?
    I am going to wait for our plaster experts to arrive at the scene.

    What type of finish do you have?

    I would be concerned about color matching different batches and where any seam between old and new plaster would be.
    -Allen
    IG 20x50 35,000 gal Cayman Lagoon Hydrazoo plaster w/ spa & waterfall, Pentair Intellichlor SWG, Pentair Mastertemp 400BTU Nat Gas Heater, Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE Filter, Polaris 380 cleaner, Meyco solid winter cover, TF100 Test Kit, Built in 2000 & replastered in 2017

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    We don’t have plaster yet, but we’re going to have pebblesheen. We just had gunite shot yesterday.

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Raising the deck. Interesting. What would that do to your landscaping? And access to the deck? It would make the whole pool deeper, and add to your water volume by some amount. Not the worst thing. But will the new shallow end depth compromise your plans for the pool. I'm picturing little ones on their tip toes. Returns will be deeper. Probably still OK. I'm pretty sure the bench and step heights can be corrected with plaster, though not dead sure about that. Maybe the shallow end depth could be adjusted that way too? Not sure about the skimmer, that could be a problem.

    When my pool was being resurfaced, they said the process might destroy the existing steps. But they said "no problem" they'd just rebuild them (at no cost, even). They chipped out gunite around the returns, to add eyeballs. And filled in my drains. Which leads me to believe that all kinds of things can be done and redone at the gunite stage.

    If the wet deck rebar is in the right place, then why couldn't they chip off 2" of it, plaster over that? Now if the rebar was set wrong, too high, which governed the gunite depth, then you're stuck, because rebar can only be so close to the surface, or else you get trouble, like rust-through.

    All that said, I'm with Allen. If it's possible without compromising the shell, make the PB build your pool to spec. If it's in the plans, then that's what he needs to deliver. If it isn't possible, then he can always redo the shell (yikes!) or give you a very substantial refund. Or raise the deck. Tough call...
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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Ah, now I have the picture. Although it may be helpful to post some pics of your situation and what is there so far.

    If the PB wants to raise the deck height, and raise the skimmers, and raise the benches and seats then maybe some more gunite can solve the problems. I would do careful measurements of the way things are and what needs to be adjusted.

    The PB needs to say what can be fixed with gunite and what can be set to the correct height during the plastering.
    -Allen
    IG 20x50 35,000 gal Cayman Lagoon Hydrazoo plaster w/ spa & waterfall, Pentair Intellichlor SWG, Pentair Mastertemp 400BTU Nat Gas Heater, Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE Filter, Polaris 380 cleaner, Meyco solid winter cover, TF100 Test Kit, Built in 2000 & replastered in 2017

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk View Post
    why couldn't they chip off 2" of it, plaster over that? Now if the rebar was set wrong, too high, which governed the gunite depth, then you're stuck, because rebar can only be so close to the surface, or else you get trouble, like rust-through.

    All that said, I'm with Allen. If it's possible without compromising the shell, make the PB build your pool to spec. If it's in the plans, then that's what he needs to deliver. If it isn't possible, then he can always redo the shell (yikes!) or give you a very substantial refund. Or raise the deck. Tough call...
    Why not chip 2 inches off your shotcrete... especially if it was just shot.
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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    The rebar is way low as it was originally planned for 9” of water. So there is about 12” or more of gunite on top of the rebar. Is it possible to trim off 2” of gunite? What equipment can be used to do that?

    For the ‘raising the deck’ route, is it ok to shot new gunite on top of already cured gunite? Here are some photos. The wetdeck is our entry to the pool, then two steps down. Beside it is the spa.

    742847DA-746F-433D-83A5-9D5E6E880162.jpg

    8DD40551-18DE-43D6-A504-48832F0CB487.jpg

    5ABE2C22-3C27-439B-AD88-7B5815E327D1.jpg

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    What is the height of those steps? Standard steps should be no more than 7" - 8" high.

    May be the camera perspective but those steps look too tall and too narrow.

    So there is about 12” or more of gunite on top of the rebar. Is it possible to trim off 2” of gunite? What equipment can be used to do that?
    Jackhammer? Then the plaster will smooth the surface out.
    -Allen
    IG 20x50 35,000 gal Cayman Lagoon Hydrazoo plaster w/ spa & waterfall, Pentair Intellichlor SWG, Pentair Mastertemp 400BTU Nat Gas Heater, Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE Filter, Polaris 380 cleaner, Meyco solid winter cover, TF100 Test Kit, Built in 2000 & replastered in 2017

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    The steps are 12” high

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by raindrop25 View Post
    The steps are 12” high
    That would not pass code for interior steps. See https://inspectapedia.com/Stairs/Stair_Risers.php

    I went out to my pool and measured my steps. I have 4 steps down to the shallow end. The height varies from the lowest step on up - 7", 8", 10", 10". Step depth is 14".

    12" steps can be difficult for people with hip and leg problems.
    -Allen
    IG 20x50 35,000 gal Cayman Lagoon Hydrazoo plaster w/ spa & waterfall, Pentair Intellichlor SWG, Pentair Mastertemp 400BTU Nat Gas Heater, Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE Filter, Polaris 380 cleaner, Meyco solid winter cover, TF100 Test Kit, Built in 2000 & replastered in 2017

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Those steps are high if 12 inches. So if u shave 2 inches off top that would give u a smaller riser but I would want the others fixed too. I would be careful with shaving. You don't want that rebar to be close to the surface or u will have issues with stains possible after plaster.

    If u build up everything with more gunite the skimmers would still be off which would be the biggest issue I think. I swear my builder said to me when we talked about gunite vs shotcrete he said shotcrete can handle cold joints better vs gunite. I don't know how true that is.

    If they shave the ledge edge I would have then completely redo steps. They might be solid gunite wsaid th no rebar. I know when they shot mine it was a slope that not and they formed the steps out of material. If urs is like that they. An just completely remove and redo.
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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Most vinyl pool kits have steps that are 11" tall. 44" total height...3.5" deck/coping plus 40" walls...call it an even 44" and three steps gives you 11" per step.

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    The steps seem a little high, but I looked it up before and the requirement for our county is for as long as it’s not exceeding 12”. If I get the wet deck trimmed 2” though I would ask them to trim the steps too.

    D5730FB7-9132-46FB-BC95-228AAC9AA9D4.jpg

    Has anybody here ever used a concrete saw to trim gunite? I’m trying to see how feasible it is to shave off 2” of our wetdeck without sacrificing the the quality of what’s going to be left.

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Is your tread depth a minimum of 12 inches?
    -Allen
    IG 20x50 35,000 gal Cayman Lagoon Hydrazoo plaster w/ spa & waterfall, Pentair Intellichlor SWG, Pentair Mastertemp 400BTU Nat Gas Heater, Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE Filter, Polaris 380 cleaner, Meyco solid winter cover, TF100 Test Kit, Built in 2000 & replastered in 2017

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    I had to cut out two ginormous rocks while digging my pool. I used a concrete saw to score it...think tic-tac-toe board, and then chipped out all the pieces. It worked, was a huge pain, and the final surface was not smooth, but will be covered by vermiculite. For you, assuming the rebar is significantly further than 2" down...it would work, be a huge pain, and the final surface probably wouldn't matter because you are plastering over it.

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajw22 View Post
    Is your tread depth a minimum of 12 inches?
    Yes they are 12”..thanks for looking out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SBall View Post
    I had to cut out two ginormous rocks while digging my pool. I used a concrete saw to score it...think tic-tac-toe board, and then chipped out all the pieces. It worked, was a huge pain, and the final surface was not smooth, but will be covered by vermiculite. For you, assuming the rebar is significantly further than 2" down...it would work, be a huge pain, and the final surface probably wouldn't matter because you are plastering over it.
    The rebar is way more than 2” down. I think this is the route I’m going to pursue with my PB. Thank you!

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    think tic-tac-toe board
    I thought the same. Score it. But...

    OP claims the rebar is set to accommodate the original 9" deep shelf, so shaving off 2" should be no problem. I'm sure these guys know how to adjust gunite, probably happens a lot. Scoring 2" deep cuts would seem to be a good way to go. But I bet it's simpler than that. The right bit at the right angle and chip away. The plaster will smooth it all out.

    Steps are too high at 12". Hard to tell in the pic's if they're all the same height. They could all be lowered. But the height of each should be identical. People can trip on steps with as little as a 1/4" difference in height. You'd get called out on that if they were interior stairs. It's gotta be less critical in a pool, but for anything "above water", the distance from "bottom floor" to tread to tread to "top floor" should be identical. Four steps (counting the shelf) would have been more comfortable, but in this pool, that would mean the last step would stick out from that adjacent wall, or the steps would not be deep enough.

    Uhg, what a stupid mistake. It's not like they got a 9' deep end wrong by a couple inches. It's the difference between a 4" depth and a 6" depth!! That's 33% off!! (Thanks Mr. Obvious!) Just makes me mad to hear of this kind of thing.

    It's weird that he suggested raising the entire deck. Would that have been less work for him? Less expense? Are we missing something about chipping out 2" of gunite? Maybe, but I say that's his problem, not the OP's. Make him fix the shelf and the steps.
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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Have them remove aka chip out ALL of the steps and the top of the shelf. The other idea of pushing everything else up is *silly* (don't like the word stupid). The reason he suggests that is all he as to do is say "Pour more concrete". The chip out will be a bit more work than a repour.

    Steps should be no higher than 9" for comfort and ease.

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