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Thread: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Just going to throw this out there... Can you confirm with measurements the depth from the top wall to the bottom of the shelf?

    6" water depth does not equal 6" from top of gunite to bottom of gunite. At least around here they don't fill pools to the brim. There is typically a 6" band of waterline tile, you fill to ~1/2 of this band. That means, it goes, Coping, 3" water tile, Water starts, 3" water tile below water.

    6" water depth requires ~9" from top of pool wall to lowest point. Looking at your pictures, it looks like the shelf depth is 1/3 of a stair, which you're saying is 12".

    SO to me it looks like you have a total of 4" with a resulting depth of 1-2"

    Yea.. I'd have the PB out ASAP and make sure you walk through that.
    Build Thread - 19x34 (16,740 gallons) IG gunite freeform | 7' Diameter Spa, 1' spillway, 6 Jets | Pentair Cartridge Filter, WhisperFlo Pump, MasterTemp 400k LP Heater | Jandy iAqualink Automation | Polaris 280 | Natural stone / Techo-Bloc Bullnose coping, Techo-Bloc Blu60 pavers in Shale Gray | Aqua Blue Pebble Sheen | Taylor K-2005

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Water depth is determined by your skimmers and nothing else. He can't just raise the deck height that is foolish to even suggest. My guess is he wants to take you to the point of no return so he doesn't have to fix it. Stick to your guns on this one and make him fix it BEFORE anything else goes in!
    29k Gallon Free Form Gunite Pool, 3 floor returns, 2 wall returns, 1 vacuum pressure port, 2 skimmers, Main drain, Jandy JXI400N Gas Heater, Jandy CV340 Cartridge Filter, FusionSoft 1400 SWG, 2 Watercolors LED, iAqualink with PDA, Sheer Waterfall, Rock Waterfall, 9' Deep End w/Diving Board, SunDeck, Polaris 9650iQ, TF-100 - Pool Build - 2017 - Google Photos

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by blazin View Post
    Just going to throw this out there... Can you confirm with measurements the depth from the top wall to the bottom of the shelf?

    6" water depth does not equal 6" from top of gunite to bottom of gunite. At least around here they don't fill pools to the brim. There is typically a 6" band of waterline tile, you fill to ~1/2 of this band. That means, it goes, Coping, 3" water tile, Water starts, 3" water tile below water.

    6" water depth requires ~9" from top of pool wall to lowest point. Looking at your pictures, it looks like the shelf depth is 1/3 of a stair, which you're saying is 12".

    SO to me it looks like you have a total of 4" with a resulting depth of 1-2"

    Yea.. I'd have the PB out ASAP and make sure you walk through that.
    I had the same thought looking at the pictures. Appears to be more like 1-2" of water depth on the shelf.

    OP, make sure they chip out enough to give your desired water depth, keeping in mind that the water line is generally about 3" below the top of the bond beam.
    Currently renovating 1970's era IG 34'x18' rectangular sports pool with 6'x10' baja shelf
    22,000 gal, Triton II TR-60 sand filter, antique Sta-rite pump

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by blazin View Post
    Just going to throw this out there... Can you confirm with measurements the depth from the top wall to the bottom of the shelf?

    6" water depth does not equal 6" from top of gunite to bottom of gunite. At least around here they don't fill pools to the brim. There is typically a 6" band of waterline tile, you fill to ~1/2 of this band. That means, it goes, Coping, 3" water tile, Water starts, 3" water tile below water.

    6" water depth requires ~9" from top of pool wall to lowest point. Looking at your pictures, it looks like the shelf depth is 1/3 of a stair, which you're saying is 12".

    SO to me it looks like you have a total of 4" with a resulting depth of 1-2"

    Yea.. I'd have the PB out ASAP and make sure you walk through that.

    It is 7” from the top of the deck to the bottom of the tanning ledge. Actually one side of the wall is 7” high and the other side is closer to 8” high. Uneven! So that will give us 4” of water on one side and about 5” on the other side.

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by raindrop25 View Post
    It is 7” from the top of the deck to the bottom of the tanning ledge. Actually one side of the wall is 7” high and the other side is closer to 8” high. Uneven! So that will give us 4” of water on one side and about 5” on the other side.
    I would think the deck will be leveled during the plastering. Note that you will lose a 1/2 inch or so from the plaster thickness.
    -Allen
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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Have them bush-hammer the deck down to the proper depth. It’s just a 90 lb hammer with a bushing head (looks like a meat tenderizer). They can fix the steps the same way.
    17' x 30' rectangle pool, two 7' x 7' baja decks, 6' x 8' raised spa. Hayward 2HP VSP for features, filter and returns. 2HP single speed for 9 spa jets. 1HP blower for spa bubbles. In-Floor cleaning, Cartridge filter, AquaConnect automation, 400K BTU NG heater. Plaster is Stonescapes mini-pebble in Aqua Blue + abalone shell TF-100 Text from Neighbor -- They're digging your pool!

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Bush-hammer! The missing piece of the puzzle. That's my "learn-o-the-day!" Thanks Big E!
    12300 gallon IG pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, IntellipH, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City/softened water.

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    PB advised they have a solution and will discuss with me tomorrow morning.

    On the other hand, is it common that the excess gunite is dumped and left on your yard? We have a pile of gunite hardened on our yard. Are they supposed to do that?

    excess.jpg

    excess2.jpg

    There are also some on our skimmer. Is this how you seal the skimmer??

    skimmer.jpg

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by raindrop25 View Post
    PB advised they have a solution and will discuss with me tomorrow morning.

    On the other hand, is it common that the excess gunite is dumped and left on your yard? We have a pile of gunite hardened on our yard. Are they supposed to do that?

    excess.jpg

    excess2.jpg

    There are also some on our skimmer. Is this how you seal the skimmer??

    skimmer.jpg
    I think so we had a lot of gunite scrap all over, PB said it was normal. The concrete guys cleaned it all out as part of their work prepping for the deck pour.
    15,000 gal. gunite in-ground; Pebble Tec / Pebble Fina in Bella Blue; Waterway OASIS pool controller; Waterway Power Defender 1.65 VS Pump; Waterway 570-0425 cartridge filter; Pentair 473993 Heat Pump; Pentair Rebel pool cleaner; 3x Globrite color LEDs; 3x 36 in. sheer waterfalls
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  10. Back To Top    #30

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    We had literally a truck load of rebound after gunite. I was happy to see so much out of the pool. That meant they were doing their job and shoveling out the stuff that wasn’t shot onto the rebar under pressure. Myself and my builder chipped and dug it all out and hauled it out.

    Skimmer. My skimmers were framed out with wood and rebared around them like the pool and shot like the pool. There are pics in my build. They r smooth finished on top.
    35x23/20 free form gunite 3.5-6 feet water. approx. 20,000 gallons. no spa or water features. 2 skim, 2 ret, floor ret, floor return. 2 inch solid. suction cleaning line. 1.5 inch solid. super blue diamond brite. NPT Gemstone Blue 2x2 with custom waterjet cut Disney Mickey markers. all pentair equipment. master temp 300,000 BTU. de 60. inteliflo 3.0 VS. swg ic40. 3 globrite LED lights. easy touch 4 with screen logic. tf-100/ salt kit

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Wow that looks sloppy! Can you post a pic of the sundeck with a tape measure for reference?

    Also +1 my skimmers were framed in wood and shot as part of the gunite shell.
    29k Gallon Free Form Gunite Pool, 3 floor returns, 2 wall returns, 1 vacuum pressure port, 2 skimmers, Main drain, Jandy JXI400N Gas Heater, Jandy CV340 Cartridge Filter, FusionSoft 1400 SWG, 2 Watercolors LED, iAqualink with PDA, Sheer Waterfall, Rock Waterfall, 9' Deep End w/Diving Board, SunDeck, Polaris 9650iQ, TF-100 - Pool Build - 2017 - Google Photos

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    I hope the conversation with the PB goes/went well. Got 2 cents?

    Between the shelf and the skimmer, I think it's safe to say at least the gunite crew was a little shy on workmanship. The excess gunite is OK (sort of), as long as it is removed from your yard. I've seen build pics with skimmers framed and poured like the pool. I don't know enough about it to say yours was done incorrectly, but it wasn't done as well as it could have been, that's for sure. And, of course, there is no excuse for the shelf problem.

    Point is, that should all have been better overseen and managed by your PB. His subs' work is a reflection of his. Maybe these issues, or this sub, were just a one-time thing. But until you are assured otherwise, you need to keep an even closer watch on things moving forward. Every thing. Not your job, but it is your pool, and you'll have to live with what the PB does and doesn't do. And frankly, I think it merits a very polite, but firm, conversation with the PB. An "expectations" conversation. Perfectly within your right. You can soften it with the "ask questions" approach. Was he onsite during the gunite, for the whole process? If not, why not? Why was the measurement of the shelf not double checked? Why wasn't the skimmer framed in? Etc. Just a way to gently remind him, inform him, that you are aware that things are not being done as well as they should be, and that you are expecting them to be, and expecting the PB to do the job for which he is being paid.

    These guys get busy. They can be managing multiple jobs. And end up playing this game of shuffling, catchup, rescheduling, redoing, fixing, or neglecting things, and quality suffers. And some will find a way to address their management shortcomings by minimizing their losses (like raising the deck!), instead of doing things right in the first place, which you end up paying for, one way or another. I little indication from you that you are on top of the build, and know how it's suppose to go (armed with your TFP experts), might go a long way in convincing this guy that you are not one to be bullied or ignored or pushed around, that you're expecting a quality build, to spec, and that he needs to pay better attention to your build from now on. The squeaky wheel gets the grease!

    Keep asking your questions here. Post regular build pic's, of everything. Folks here will help you keep an eye on things and point out deficiencies that can hopefully be corrected before it's too late...
    12300 gallon IG pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, IntellipH, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City/softened water.

  13. Back To Top    #33

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Great suggestions Dirk. I've taken notes
    ~Lonnie~
    Gathering quotes for Concrete/Gunite. Approx. size 14 x 22 rectangular with small sun shelf for dogs, approx 10K gallons. Seating ledge around 2 sides. Depth of 4 - 6 ft. Still trying to decide on SWG; TF100, Speedstir, PoolMath App, Pool School Book w/printouts....All I need now is water :)

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    You can see in these photos how my skimmer was done. It was "boxed" by a very clean cutout from the dirt, but not framed. And had rebar around it. After gunite was done it looks a bit messy, but I think the structure of it was just as sound as the rest of the pool.
    skimmer1.jpg

    skimmer2.jpg
    15,000 gal. gunite in-ground; Pebble Tec / Pebble Fina in Bella Blue; Waterway OASIS pool controller; Waterway Power Defender 1.65 VS Pump; Waterway 570-0425 cartridge filter; Pentair 473993 Heat Pump; Pentair Rebel pool cleaner; 3x Globrite color LEDs; 3x 36 in. sheer waterfalls
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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    When you look at scdaren's second pic, you can see how his gunite looks almost "pool smooth." There appear to be brush/rake tracks, as if the crew took care to make the surface nice and even. When I look at the third pic in the OP's #9 post, I'm seeing what looks like lumps and bumps and deep foot prints. Are those just shading and wet spots, or are they what they look like? Maybe they'll be fine and the plaster will smooth all that out. But it's another red flag on the gunite workmanship.
    12300 gallon IG pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, IntellipH, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City/softened water.

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Where is a pic of the sundeck?
    29k Gallon Free Form Gunite Pool, 3 floor returns, 2 wall returns, 1 vacuum pressure port, 2 skimmers, Main drain, Jandy JXI400N Gas Heater, Jandy CV340 Cartridge Filter, FusionSoft 1400 SWG, 2 Watercolors LED, iAqualink with PDA, Sheer Waterfall, Rock Waterfall, 9' Deep End w/Diving Board, SunDeck, Polaris 9650iQ, TF-100 - Pool Build - 2017 - Google Photos

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk View Post
    I hope the conversation with the PB goes/went well. Got 2 cents?
    Conversation with PB did not go well at first. He was insisting about adding 2 inches of gunite on the deck. I insisted about shaving off the wetdeck and the steps. He said they can do it if we split the cost with them. I’m not paying anything for their fault!
    At the end he agreed to shave off 2 inches from the wetdeck and even out the steps, without any costs to us. If anything, they should give us some discounts for the hassle and delay!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGate View Post
    Where is a pic of the sundeck?
    Pic is in post #9

  18. Back To Top    #38

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Good job!
    15,000 gal. gunite in-ground; Pebble Tec / Pebble Fina in Bella Blue; Waterway OASIS pool controller; Waterway Power Defender 1.65 VS Pump; Waterway 570-0425 cartridge filter; Pentair 473993 Heat Pump; Pentair Rebel pool cleaner; 3x Globrite color LEDs; 3x 36 in. sheer waterfalls
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  19. Back To Top    #39

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk View Post
    When you look at scdaren's second pic, you can see how his gunite looks almost "pool smooth." There appear to be brush/rake tracks, as if the crew took care to make the surface nice and even. When I look at the third pic in the OP's #9 post, I'm seeing what looks like lumps and bumps and deep foot prints. Are those just shading and wet spots, or are they what they look like? Maybe they'll be fine and the plaster will smooth all that out. But it's another red flag on the gunite workmanship.
    The dark spots are wet spots from previously watering it. But the gunite is definitely super rough, with a lot of lumps and bumps. We’re not happy with the gunite workmanship.

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    Re: Shotcrete done but wetdeck/tanning ledge too shallow.

    Please tell me you got all of this in writing. If you did not send him a follow up text and/or email with something like: "As a follow up to our meeting on Thurs. ........." laying out what he said he would do.

    Glad you stuck with them taking it down! Good job! Did you have to "growl" at him?
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