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Thread: Electrical Question

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    Electrical Question


    I'm down to 8 days until construction and have to make final layout decisions tomorrow. I'm looking at installing an electrical outlet on the pool deck but am trying to balance the cost of installing the outlet on the lounging area versus the area closest to the equipment but at the opposite side of the lounging deck. The cost would be less than half for the latter option versus the first. Thoughts?
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    Grant and Jerri
    Liberty, NC
    New 18x36 vinyl liner pool with lighting and fountain

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    Re: Electrical Question

    maybe I should clarify. We envision the large 20x 10 area to be the primary lounging area since the gate and steps will interfere with the other area. The cheaper install location would be near the gate , bottom side of the attached drawing.
    Grant and Jerri
    Liberty, NC
    New 18x36 vinyl liner pool with lighting and fountain

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Electrical Question

    Is this outlet to run the pool equipment or just to have an outlet to use for radios and such?
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    Re: Electrical Question

    In case you may want to use anything in the pool that would use electricity, i.e., submersible pump, solid cover pump, robotic pool cleaner, etc, or flood lights to work in area at night, or even electrical tools, you may want to put the outlet in the place least likely for cords to be tripped over by anyone using the area or crossing it.

    Example: I recently had to keep my pump off for a week while working on filter. I kept a submersible pump running, for circulation (not one speck of algae appeared), with water put back in to the pool on opposite end of pool from pump. Ran the Aquabot too as it circulates several thousand gallons an hour. Also, a small submersible pump is great for draining water out of the pool for whatever reason. I now have about 5" of rain that has fallen since yesterday. I just backwashed yesterday and I don't have a way to drain water out via the pump station without losing DE filter grid coating material (I use cellulose instead of DE). The submersible pump takes five minutes to go get and set up to drain the extra water out. BTW... I think I paid about $65 for it at HD several years ago. If I had used an outlet on the deck instead of one near the pool it would have been in the direct path of people/dogs going to deck from house, stepping down from deck to pool decking, and just using the deck for leisure, dining, bird/animal watching, etc. Hubby has tripped on my extension cords more than once and accuses me of trying to "kill" him.

    Also, one of my pool cleaners, the iRobot version of the Aquabot Turbo T-jet, needs an electrical outlet for the controller (the line running from controller is ~24 volts converted from 120 at the controller). If the electrical outlet isn't near enough to the pool an extension cord would be needed to power the control box. Before thinking that you would never use a robotic cleaner remember that you may find that it may be the best of several kinds for your environment. I have been using Polaris 280 (pressure side) for years, but sometimes use the Aquabot which is great for when you don't want to run the pump (and cost much less in electricity to run). Also, just purchased a Tracker 4X (vacuum side)(like THE Pool Cleaner) because, as of this year, I have three puppies that drag enormous amounts of sand/silt into the pool daily. It gets up the silt that the other two don't. Until this year, even with a few dogs swimming, I didn't have nearly as much silt in the pool. Any bag or liner I use for the Polaris lets the silt through and the tail keeps the silt stirred up requiring more run time of pump. When I use the Aquabot's fine silt bag it fills so fast that the 'bot can't then make it up the steep incline to the shallow end where most of the silt stays. I've been using the Tracker for three days now and I am thrilled at it's ability to clean up the silt without stirring it up, AND it spends as much time in the shallow end and in the deep end. So you'll not really know for sure which will be best and, may, over time, decide on a different cleaner than the first one you choose.

    My first consideration would be safety then convienence.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: Electrical Question

    Quote Originally Posted by GrantsPool
    I'm down to 8 days until construction and have to make final layout decisions tomorrow. I'm looking at installing an electrical outlet on the pool deck but am trying to balance the cost of installing the outlet on the lounging area versus the area closest to the equipment but at the opposite side of the lounging deck. The cost would be less than half for the latter option versus the first. Thoughts?
    If you can afford both, install both. You never know when you might want to plug something in near the lounge area. But if you must go with one option, place it close to the equipment pad. Here you'll need a power supply for tools, if not tomorrow, then one day.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Electrical Question

    Don't they automatically install one at the pool equipment?

    We are almost at the end of our construction, and they put an outlet at the pool equipment site without even asking.

    We also had them put TWO outlets at the opposite end of the pool deck, at each end of the curve of the patio area (probably about 25 - 30ft apart). I have no idea what we would use them for yet - maybe a radio/iPod or if I bring a laptop down there. Maybe a light post in the future. But I just figured that there are just never enough outlets, so it couldn't hurt, and now is the time (during construction).

    I was definitely getting one outlet put at the patio end (actually, I don't think it was even a question - the pool builder just put one in the plans automatically). I requested the second one be added.

    So I would vote to put one at the equipment AND at the opposite side of the deck.
    27' round/4 feet deep above ground pool
    ProClean by Waterway cartridge pool filter (125 square foot)
    Flowrate- 125 gpm

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    spishex's Avatar
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    Re: Electrical Question

    As someone who is regularly searching for an outlet around pools, I can tell you that they're not as common as you'd think. Even at the equipment. I carry a 100' extension cord with me at all times because I usually have to plug in to the exterior of the home.

    So that being said, you'd probably be ok with just an outlet at the equipment unless you had a dedicated space (like a grilling area or an outdoor A/V setup) that was going to need to be powered.

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    Re: Electrical Question

    Quote Originally Posted by polyvue
    If you can afford both, install both. You never know when you might want to plug something in near the lounge area. But if you must go with one option, place it close to the equipment pad. Here you'll need a power supply for tools, if not tomorrow, then one day.
    I don't have an outlet on the deck and I always need one there. I have a small wooden shed on the deck that houses my lightweight battery powered leaf blower that stays on a charger (used for quick blow off of deck and blow off tree debris on spa top, and quick clearing of pool decking), and a couple of transformers for 12 volt lighting for lights on the deck and NE side of courtyard wall that adjoins deck. Also three power bricks for small rechargeable led lanterns that we use all the time on the deck. In summer I, also, run an outdoors revolving fan towards the large umbrella/table that I use for lounging, dining, checking numbers for pool/spa, computing, critter watching, fixing things (some times needing outlet for electrical tools), reading, etc........... The closest outlet is the one on corner of deck about 20 ft away that I consider my pool station outlet as it is about 10 ft from pump station. But an extension cord to that would present safety issues for tripping. So..... I've run a semi permanent extension cord around the length of deck up against the house and around the corner and 15 more feet to the next nearest outlet in the wall of house. This one presents no problem for tripping but is not as ideal as having an outlet on the deck. Actually could use two or three on the deck especially one on the far corner of deck. The outlet around the corner is near the gas grill but is used mainly to plug in three more transformers for low voltage lights. (We have goo-gobbs of low voltage lighting)

    On over, going further around the house to next corner I've had to run another extension cord from an outlet all the way the next length of house to the only other outlet installed in wall (I had this one put in soon after we move in). That extension cord powers a flood light I use frequently when working on pool at night and a couple more low voltage transformers.

    These extension cords are the heavy green ones that have several plugs along the length of cord but they are only 20 ft long so I have to run heavy extension cords to them from the outlets. I have those attached to the two sets of solid conduit (220 v) that go around two lengths of house from main box to 1) pool and 2) spa.

    We purchased the house (built in 74) in 86. When I've had electricians out here for work (and actually had only enough money to pay for specific job) I surely wish I had known my requirements..... I could use, for sure, 10 more outside wall outlets installed and that doesn't include the front of house or the courtyard where I have a greenhouse (have another heavy extension cord coming from laundry room, through cracked open window, sealed with Gorilla tape). When house was built they did put an outlet on each of the two decks on second story but I rarely use them.

    Quote Originally Posted by spishex
    As someone who is regularly searching for an outlet around pools, I can tell you that they're not as common as you'd think. Even at the equipment. I carry a 100' extension cord with me at all times because I usually have to plug in to the exterior of the home.
    So true, so true.

    Someday I'm going to have to start installing outlets AND I hate drilling through brick.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Electrical Question

    One was installed by the pool equipment, but we also needed one inbetween 10 and 20 feet of the pool. It was required to pass inspection - in case EMT needs it for defibrillator. I'm planning to use it for a small fridge to keep drinks and such.
    25' x 13' Roman, 12000 gal IGP, Plaster, with 500 gal Spa
    SWG, 1 HP Max Flo Pump, C-900 cartridge filter
    Solar heat

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    Brentr's Avatar
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    Re: Electrical Question

    You can never have too many outlets. If you know an electrician friend or you are good with electricity you can install after the pool is finished and passed inspection. We added outlets in every corner plus outlets for TIKI bar plus outlets for summer kitchen. Also we added hose bibbs in all 3 corners coming off the sprinkler system which has a seperate water meter, so there is no charge for sewer. Make sure you have a very big sub panel for future add ons, like heat pump, solar, SWG and extra lightning( breaker for generator to power house during power outages during hurricane season). I had a 100amp sub panel run but most can get away with a 60amp service. Make sure you have extra breakers for the add ons. Look at our thread " Our New Pool Build in Jacksonville, FL" Hope this helps.
    5,775 gal, IG free form, Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish, 2 swim out benches, Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues, StaRite Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter replaced with Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15, Polaris 360, Pentair 300w Light upgraded to Pentair IntelliBrite (OMG what a huge difference) , Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers, solar cover, TF-100 test kit, Pentair Deck Jet, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer (Makes testing a breeze), Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Margarita Concoction Machine,
    Pics of our Spool ( Social Pool) being built Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: Electrical Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Brentr
    You can never have too many outlets. [...] Look at our thread " Our New Pool Build in Jacksonville, FL"
    Nor can one have too many Floridians... Welcome Brentr!
    And good advice, too. Could you provide a link to the thread you reference? Interested in checking it out. thanks!
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    View of spiral galaxy in Ursa Major NGC6217 - Hubble Telescope 2009

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    Re: Electrical Question

    Within the past few years I had our older breaker panel, 1971, and sub-panel, 1981 (that was installed when pool was built, by previous owners, but other things coming off it too) replaced with a much larger panel. Utility company also up-sized our transformer, for free . Out here each house has its own transformer before entering the house. Anyway the electrician, my favorite, informed me that the old sub-panel addition was way out of code.

    So make sure it is "to code".

    "Favorite" electrician informed me that city would replace transformer for free especially since the old one was sized for 1971. We have a lot of transformers "blow" out here with trees and extreme winds and occasional high up tree fires. Used to be when we lost electric out this way, at least once a month but usually more often, it could take elec. co. up to 24 hours to find and fix it. Since they've built some multi-million $$ homes out here (our three houses, around a common area, at end of dead end road, surrounded by protected parks and habitats is the "ghetto" area out here ) they've totally replaced all old service coming from sub-station, so it's only out every few months, usually blinks a few times during storms, and when it goes out they can get it fixed in a few hours, usually.

    BTW.... I mainly had the new panel installed when we replaced a large tank water heater with two 220v, on-demand heaters installed in parallel. They each surge to 13 kw when they first come on and caused many things to dim when they came on. (We don't have gas or sewer out here.) And, yes, we did have to run much heavier wiring, in individual rigid conduits, to each heater, but luckily around ceiling of garage so virtually unnoticeable. The standard wiring for a 220v tank water heater is smaller than required for the 220v on-demand heaters. And, no, I wouldn't recommend large, electric on-demand whole-house heaters, as they weren't able to keep an even temperature supply to bathrooms on second level. Gas is a different story though; they work great. Electric worked great for downstairs bathroom, though, and only need one. Other one, now services courtyard/greenhouse and for washing dogs outside. Kitchen and laundry are on separate heater.

    Interestingly enough, I'm going to have to add a new sub-panel soon, for more feed to our living area. It's going to have to run from panel around 1 1/2 sides of house through even more rigid conduit. Running that stuff, and attaching to brick wall, is pretty costly if you have an electrician do it.

    BTW... we can't run wiring inside our house in virtually all the downstairs (the upgraded and additional communication lines to our living area and office also had to be run outside) nor underground much, so plan ahead AND PLAN FOR MUCH MORE THAN YOU CAN EVER IMAGINE NEEDING.
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Brentr's Avatar
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    Re: Electrical Question

    Polyvue, I am not sure how to provide a link. If you can give me instructions I would be able to do so in the future. Google "Our New Pool Build in Jacksonville, FL" and you should be able to find it. Please let me know if you cannot find it. You can also put this in the browser http://www.thathomesite.com/forums/load ... 98.html?21

    Thanks in advance
    5,775 gal, IG free form, Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish, 2 swim out benches, Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues, StaRite Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter replaced with Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15, Polaris 360, Pentair 300w Light upgraded to Pentair IntelliBrite (OMG what a huge difference) , Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers, solar cover, TF-100 test kit, Pentair Deck Jet, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer (Makes testing a breeze), Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Margarita Concoction Machine,
    Pics of our Spool ( Social Pool) being built Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: Electrical Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Brentr
    I am not sure how to provide a link.
    Got it. Thanks. Quite a project... I notice that almost everybody in the south east plans for a screen enclosure. From visiting Orlando and Tampa/Sarasota I presume this is because of the bugs(?) Much more unusual in California... the birds here feel entirely free to bathe in our pools when they're uncovered. Don't mind the occasional blue jay taking a quick dip, but have noticed recently that the pool is attracting birds of all kinds. Geeesh...

    Thanks for sharing your build on this forum.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
    __
    View of spiral galaxy in Ursa Major NGC6217 - Hubble Telescope 2009

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