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Thread: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

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    100% new to pools. Design video etc

    Good evening folks.. So i found this forum while searching for ways to sanitize pools etc. I found ecosmarte (which was pretty quickly debunked by some of you folks, and havent seen the OP come back to defend it) I have looked at DrinkablePoolWaterSystems (new ish) which sounds promising, but again, could be complete garbage.
    Be that as it may

    I am shopping installers, options, etc. I have never owned a pool, but the older I get the more I realize i want one.
    Married, 2 kids, 4/6, they are jacked.

    So, I wanted to get some input and advice etc on my build, options, etc.

    I modeled my home, then the backyard, then the pool etc.
    Keep in mind, the grey patio where the fire pit is, is already existing. The Stone wall, is as well. However its a solid wall today. My idea is to break it open in the middle and have that be an entry to the pool (i think it looks good)
    The awning over the couch area is also not there today. That door (near couch) will be a new door, leading in to a current guest room. That room will be tiled. Across the hall from that room is a bathroom. It seems like a very quick, easy way to eliminate the need for a formal pool house + bathroom etc. I plan to put an air curtain up above the french doors to allow those doors to be open, and bugs and air conditioning to remain in their respective places.
    I am pretty set on a fiberglass pool ( i know up front cost is more). I just feel the maintenence, etc is so much less. I dont like the wrinkling in vinyl, the look over time, etc...
    So here is the video i created.
    LaBarre Pool Project - YouTube

    Ok... chemicals. I hate the idea of chlorine. Not as a sanitizing agent, but as a skin drying, eye irritant. Is there any way around this?
    Salt water chlorine pool.. Is it really that hard on pumps, etc? I know id have to replace the cartridge every few years, I can handle that, but other than that is it that bad on everything else? Also knowing I am going fiberglass, might that make salt water more appealing?

    Im still in the information gathering phase, as you can tell. I just want to make the best decision possible.
    thank you folks

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    Awrighty then! Welcome to TFP

    You obviously have never been in a TFP pool. The only pool that causes dry skin and eye irritation is a *badly managed* pool! Chlorine, especially as we promote using it is the safest, cheapest and best way to keep a pool clean and clear.

    A salt water pool *is* a chlorine pool. Its just that the chlorine is made by the device from the salt in the water.

    Chlorine protects you from person to person disease transmission. Ozone does not. Ecosmart is based on copper which can screw up and stain pools bad and turn hair green, as well as still requiring chlorine to prevent disease transmission.

    EcoSmarte

    I love my fiberglass pool... its one weakness is that *if* you're going to have metals in the water fiberglass pool metal stains are a PITN to remove. Solution is to just say no to metals!

    Maddie
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    THanks Maddie... I do know that a Salt water pool is a chlorine pool. Just curious as to what people prefer these days Good to know about metal objects in a fiberglass pool. I remember seeing something a while back about that.. need to commit it to memory

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    Hi there,

    I stopped watching your video as soon as I saw the brick coping. There’s nothing wrong with it, but it’s considered a little out of date. Consider travertine or limestone coping. Travertine coping used to be considered an “upgrade” in the past, but now many pool companies offer them as a standard.

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    The brick coping was just something I put in... It will NOT be my selection... 99% sure its just stamped concrete bullnose coping... ive already changed it in the program haha

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    Another question that I am battling is this.pad.jpg
    Right now this is an angled grade that I want to level off (like this picture) and put all my pool stuff under there. pumps, heater etc. (btw the pillars along the walls, and middle are NOT there IRL)
    I want to start doing some of the work of subbing stuff now before the pool goes in etc. My question is, how should I pour this pad knowing pvc etc has to come in here at some point... do I just leave a 3x5 section unpoured so the pool guys can trench in? create a 3x1 rectangle in a certain spot that they can fish in to? Id love to feedback here. I do hope to get this done prior to pool, because if i can piece out some of these 2k$ jobs along the way, the downstroke of the project is lessened in my head

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    Awrighty then! Welcome to TFP

    You obviously have never been in a TFP pool. The only pool that causes dry skin and eye irritation is a *badly managed* pool! Chlorine, especially as we promote using it is the safest, cheapest and best way to keep a pool clean and clear.

    A salt water pool *is* a chlorine pool. Its just that the chlorine is made by the device from the salt in the water.

    Chlorine protects you from person to person disease transmission. Ozone does not. Ecosmart is based on copper which can screw up and stain pools bad and turn hair green, as well as still requiring chlorine to prevent disease transmission.

    EcoSmarte

    I love my fiberglass pool... its one weakness is that *if* you're going to have metals in the water fiberglass pool metal stains are a PITN to remove. Solution is to just say no to metals!

    Maddie
    To add to that, a properly maintained pool has the correct level of chlorine, which is consumed daily through normal use and normal dissipation (if you ever owned a goldfish you'll remember that the pet shop told you to fill the bowl and let it sit for 24 hours so the chlorine would dissipate). A saltwater system is the easiest. I prefer to add liquid chlorine manually (I test and balance every morning). At the proper levels you can barely tell it's there.
    Geebot
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    30K gal, InGround Plaster Finish, 3.5'-9.5', Maytronics S300 Cleaner

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    While I completely understand there is a lot of ongoing maint with a pool, every day seems a bit overkill for what I want to do. I would LOVE to have the ability to do some sort of work on it daily, but that isnt the life I lead. I travel for work, sometimes a week at a time. I am hopeful I can maintain my pool with a weekly maint schedule. Obviously if extenuating circumstances require, I can do it more often at times. Hoping the inclusion of fiberglass and an automatic pool cover will help maintain chemical levels and require less maint.
    thanks

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    i get what your thinking of getting the small stuff done as you go, but you rly cant. you will end up making finish work either sloppy or doing things twice. if you pour that slab and leave a trench open, its more money to do is 2 seperate times than at once, its not just square ft its sqft plus the setup and on the job charge plus additional delivery. you get the pool installed and the piping run then have the plumbers/electricians get there conduits in and leave some room in the concrete for the pipes you do not want to encase them in the concrete someday you will have to change things or upgrade/swap equipment.

    after you get the pool in and it setup thats when you worry about finish work, you can only rly do structural and work to the house thats not gonna be in way of the pool guys. there are creative ways to do some other stuff but you rly gotta think ahead and if your not familiar with construction tactics or in the bizness its hard to know whats ahead w the subs. very hard to do for the average person you are at the mercy of the information the workers tell you thats gonna happen but may not be whats needed to be done exactly
    14x30 IG 13,000gal "full DIY in progress" hayward automation, aquaplus swg T15, hayward swimclear 525 sqft. cartridge filter, hayward ecostar vsp3400, raypak 266btu NG cupro-nickel heater, dolphin S200 robot

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    Thats understandable... for the pad, totally makes sense. What I can do is have the awning done that will cover the couch/bar area. I know that will require some base footings anyway, so getting those poured now, so i dont have to break up concrete later will be nice. then when they pour the deck they can just pour around the pillars and be done with it.

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    lovely new change I found out today... our city only allows 30% of your backyard space to be consumed with pool, patio, decking, sheds etc. which severely hampers my plans. I likely need to go down to a 36' pool and drastically cut down my decking. and put in permeable pavers for my walkways... even then im still 100 sq foot above in my latest design.
    man, what a pain in the arse

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    Quote Originally Posted by dunginhawk View Post
    Thats understandable... for the pad, totally makes sense. What I can do is have the awning done that will cover the couch/bar area. I know that will require some base footings anyway, so getting those poured now, so i dont have to break up concrete later will be nice. then when they pour the deck they can just pour around the pillars and be done with it.
    In my opinion a concrete pad over the PVC pipes becomes a PITA when you need to do any pipe maintenance as things age. I refer gravel or river rock and you place equipment pads on top of it for your filter, heater, and pumps.

    Or bring the PVC up from the dirt on the edge of a poured concrete pad and pipe above ground to the equipment.

    Don't bring the PVC up under the concrete pad.

    pool plumbing.jpg

    th.jpg
    -Allen
    IG 20x50 35,000 gal Cayman Lagoon Hydrazoo plaster w/ spa & waterfall, Pentair Intellichlor SWG, Pentair Mastertemp 400BTU Nat Gas Heater, Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE Filter, Polaris 380 cleaner, Meyco solid winter cover, TF100 Test Kit, Built in 2000 & replastered in 2017

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    Looks very nice i will go with the installers recomendation.

    So, I am in a bit of a pickle. I visited one of the installers homes tonight to look at his pool, a 16x36 freeform. My wife immediately said "No", and I have to admit, i wasnt thrilled either. I mean the pool was nice. Clean and the cover was great... Hes a good pool builder, but the size just wasnt anywhere near what we want.

    So Im going to ask him to look at a 16x40 hoping it changes our mind in that direction... I have a feeling though still it will seem too small. We are used to visiting friends with 20x40, and our girl takes lessons from a woman with a 20x48. 20x40 seems the right size. Freeform just takes so much space out of the mix.

    The downside to going to 20x40 is that we are now in vinyl land. I really really dont want vinyl. Besides its upfront cost savings (10k) there are no redeeming qualities in my mind (i am ready to be convinced otherwise). Vinyl Wrinkles, and there isnt much you can do about it. It needs to be replaced every 5-8 years (unless you get super lucky) at 5k + each time (wiping away the savings after 10-15 years) I think the way it has to be installed is not as aethetically pleasing as fiberglass (and the bullnose coping).

    Perhaps im being too picky, but when you spend 150k on an outdoor living space, you should get what you want

    thoughts?

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    SO, for those of you that had to do fences around your pool, im getting quotes for 55-60 / ft for 6ft vinyl fence... is it just me, or does that seem high? ill need about 240 ft of fence to enclose my back yard which is a cool $14,400 before gates.

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    I just had to do my fence in my yard because of my pool that torn down by hurricane and i was charged approximately $41/ ft for 6 ft vynil pvc shadow box fence and it was approximately 155ft which included two 4ft gates. It depends on the type of pvc fence and also region of country. I hope this helps. I did get quotes that were higher.
    Built 2004 In-ground/12,636 gallons, Gunite Diamond Brite,Hayward Swimpure Plus SWG, Hayward SwimClear C200S, Pentair IntelliFlo VS pump, Taylor k-2006 & k1766 Salt test kit w/Speed Stir, Maytronics Active 30i (Poseidon) robotic pool cleaner, Fiberstars Lifetime Illuminator 6000 fiber optic light.

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    With your work you almost have to get a SWG as seen here: Pool School - Salt Water Chlorine Generators It really makes a huge difference in amount of care needed in the pool. There will still be things that need to be done like brushing and such but much less than without this system.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    I think there are some other fiberglass pools brands that have 40'.....but it is unusual. Its whatever fits on the truck. Check around.

    Maddie
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    With your work you almost have to get a SWG as seen here: Pool School - Salt Water Chlorine Generators It really makes a huge difference in amount of care needed in the pool. There will still be things that need to be done like brushing and such but much less than without this system.

    Kim
    +1

    only way really to keep in range when away.
    35x23/20 free form gunite 3.5-6 feet water. approx. 20,000 gallons. no spa or water features. 2 skim, 2 ret, floor ret, floor return. 2 inch solid. suction cleaning line. 1.5 inch solid. super blue diamond brite. NPT Gemstone Blue 2x2 with custom waterjet cut Disney Mickey markers. all pentair equipment. master temp 300,000 BTU. de 60. inteliflo 3.0 VS. swg ic40. 3 globrite LED lights. easy touch 4 with screen logic. tf-100/ salt kit

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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    I havent seen a pool install bid yet.. can anyone give me any idea on what a SWG system is priced at compared to a normal non salt system?
    I agree that is probably the way to go, just want to add it to my spiraling out of control budget haha.
    I already have the pool picked out (WEllspring 40 by THursday Pools) and my installer, whos 10 references checked out in stellar fashion.

    His concrete sub charges 6$ a foot which is pretty dang good.
    His fence sub is priced cheaper by a long way (and ive seen their work) than the bids i had. So thats good.
    Things are coming along. Biggest expense outside of pool stuff is going to be adding that darn awning to my house haha

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: 100% new to pools. Design video etc

    How many gallons are you thinking the pool will be? We suggest getting a SWG that is rated 2x the size of the pool. This helps save money with lower pump run time and longer cell life.
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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