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Thread: Cover Anchors

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    H2O_Keeper's Avatar
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    Cover Anchors

    I have my cover on for my inground pool but am having some issues with a few of the studs(?) that are in the concrete. Here are the issues I am having.

    1. One is stripped and I can't use the allen wrench to turn
    2. A few I cant seem to get to budge and am concerend I will strip them
    3. I have one that the entire base/screw part is turning all together

    Any adivce on how to handle these stubborn studs?
    21K Gal, IG, Vinyl, Bleach-Borax-Baking Soda, 3/4HP Hayward pump, Hayward sand filter, 200,000BTU Heater, TF100 Testkit
    "All that we are arises with our thoughts." - Buddha
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    Re: Cover Anchors

    Looploc cover anchors?

    Suggestions:

    First suggestion is that you properly clean and lube spring and fall, but that don't help you now.

    I would liberally spray or lube with something like PB blaster (better than wd-40) and then wait a while for it to soak in. The soaking in is important.

    For the stripped one, Get a set of "screw extractors". Drill the appropriate pilot hole and the use the reverse threaded bit to extact the screw. If that doesn't work, keep drilling sucessively larger holes and eventually, either the body of the screw can be picked out or you will just drill the whole thing out.

    For the partially stripped ones, after using the PB blaster, if you get them out, buy replacements.

    For the one spinning in the hole, I'm thinking that if you pull slightly while spinning, you will start to extract the entire thng far enough to get pliars on it. If not, drill a small hole in it and insert a machine screw in it to use and a handle and just pull it out. I suspect the appropriate repair is to epoxy in a new fitting.
    25000 gallon in-ground vinyl pool
    approximately 25 years old
    1.5 hp 2 speed pump DE filter Intellichlor Salt System
    Crappy 1.5" plumbing.

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    H2O_Keeper's Avatar
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    Looploc Anchors

    Sorry didnt know the term, Yep looploc cover anchors. After writing this email I got the one out that totally spins. For now I just put it in a vice unscrewed and then put the entire peg back in. Will get me by till the spring.

    I did lube the stubborn ones with 3-in-1 but did not wait. I will give it some time and try again. Not familiar with PB blaster, where can I buy that?
    21K Gal, IG, Vinyl, Bleach-Borax-Baking Soda, 3/4HP Hayward pump, Hayward sand filter, 200,000BTU Heater, TF100 Testkit
    "All that we are arises with our thoughts." - Buddha
    “When fate hands you a lemon, make lemonade.” - Dale Carnegie

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    Re: Cover Anchors

    Auto parts stores, home depot, the usual places. The 3-1 should work just about as well. Penetrating oils need a bit of time to penetrate. Make sure you are getting it in the crevice between the screw and the housing. Since gravity is on your side, I prefer a liquid as opposed to a spray, but I don't think PB blaster comes in a liquid. Just get the nozzle close and use a few squirts.

    If you had an impact hammer and an appropriate bit, you could do that too.
    25000 gallon in-ground vinyl pool
    approximately 25 years old
    1.5 hp 2 speed pump DE filter Intellichlor Salt System
    Crappy 1.5" plumbing.

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    Re: Cover Anchors

    I use the wing master anchor extractor device thingy. But, I'm a pool guy that actually makes use of the device more than 3 times so it probably wouldn't be worth the price. You can try to use a pair of channel locks to try to unscrew the anchor (wear glove to protect your knuckles when you slip off). Use lots of lubrication to try to make the job easier. Loop-loc recommends a silicone spray for lubrication and protection of the brass anchors.
    -Kevin
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    22,000 gal / 16' x 32' / Vinyl / Hayward s244t /Pentair SuperFlo 1 hp

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    Re: Cover Anchors

    I offered this advice a couple of years ago, but no one wanted/ needed it

    If you want my tips and tricks for getting them up (and sometimes you just have to replace the anchor), I'm willing to give them

    (Kevin, I've used the wing master too - why the %%^#%&%$^ is it made out of aluminum!!! )

    More info tomorrow, if you'd like.
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Cover Anchors

    well it's probably made out of aluminum because it is a multi-use tool so sometimes it can be expected to be submerged. I guess they figure it will be stored away wet and they didn't want a rust bucket. I don't mind it being made out of aluminum though, there is only some minor wear on the square holes designed to tap the anchor and remove the tap afterwords. The taps themselves i think are made out of tungsten. Regardless I spray everything with silicone spray before and after use to keep it in good condition. What happened to your tool that you hate it being made out of aluminum?
    -Kevin
    X-Pert Pool Service
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    22,000 gal / 16' x 32' / Vinyl / Hayward s244t /Pentair SuperFlo 1 hp

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    Re: Cover Anchors

    I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll have a quick note for Kevin, then get down to getting stuck anchors up

    Kevin, almost every piece of our first Wingmaster failed within the first closing season Apparently, aluminum isn't stronger than my coworkers, who are of the philosophy that 'brute force' is the answer to any problem As a result, we got 3 more and they all failed but I was able to cobble together a full set from the remains for my use. If the parts were made out of stainless, they'd be much more hardy and last longer (as you know, these kits aren't inexpensive).

    Ok, when you have trouble getting a 'screw-up' anchor to come up:

    1) Make sure that the tool can go in all the way (i.e. - remove any sand or pebbles from the hole the 1/4" Allen wrench fits into) These anchors are brass and brass will 'strip out' easily, be sure that you have as much contact between the tool and the anchor as you can!

    2) If you can get the anchor to come up a little, blow out the debris in there and splash some water into the shell. This will wash away some more of the stuff that's clogging the threads. Turn the anchor back down, to allow the water to wash out more stuff from the other threads. Raise, rerinse and repeat until the whole anchor comes out - then rinse out the body of the anchor and the anchor's threads.



    As a concerned pool owner, who has taken the effort to come here and learn how to properly care for your pool - I'd remove all the anchors in the spring, when you open the pool, and rinse them and add a little lubricant to them (both the anchor and the shell) so that you won't ever have 'sticky anchors'
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Cover Anchors

    Yep they are the brass kind, perhaps its a cost issue but am surprised something like this was not made of stainless. I am going to try the complete removal, clean in the spring before lowering them trick. I said I was going to do that after fighting with them last fall but did not. Most of them are hard to move.

    I realize it would leave a small hole in the concrete but is it a bad thing to just leave the bases in there and leave the screws out for the summer?
    21K Gal, IG, Vinyl, Bleach-Borax-Baking Soda, 3/4HP Hayward pump, Hayward sand filter, 200,000BTU Heater, TF100 Testkit
    "All that we are arises with our thoughts." - Buddha
    “When fate hands you a lemon, make lemonade.” - Dale Carnegie

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    Re: Cover Anchors

    While I don't have a dog in this fight, I have a some experience with the metallurgy. The reason they don't make those out of stainless is mostly because that stainless on stainless has a bad tendency to gall if not kept lubricated properly and we all know that things like this get forgotten until there's a problem. Also brass is somewhat self lubricating and a heck of a lot easier to drill out than the stainless is.

    The only problem I see with leaving the bolts out is that the inserts will fill up with dirt, etc. and create headaches when you need to put the bolts in again. If there was a cap you could put on them that would be the best thing.

    welll, I'm outta here.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: Cover Anchors

    Bama is right about the stainless and the brass. Stainless will gall and they will be stuck forever. They would also cost a fortune in stainless.

    If the sleeves and screws are cleaned at opening and at closing and properly lubricated with silicone grease, they will be just fine most of the time. Definitely remove and replace the affected ones and do some proper maintainance.

    I brush my screws off and hit the holes with some canned air to get out the dirt, lube and re-install.
    25000 gallon in-ground vinyl pool
    approximately 25 years old
    1.5 hp 2 speed pump DE filter Intellichlor Salt System
    Crappy 1.5" plumbing.

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    Re: Cover Anchors

    Thank god for the search function.

    I have a couple of "Spinners" as well and one that came out from our last snowfall. Menitoned above was an epoxy fill. Seems like the right fix. Does anyone recommend a specific product for this? A different fix?
    -400 sq ft ingroung Fiji (straight back kidney) ~ 13,500 gallons - Vinyl Liner - 3 to 6 Feet
    -Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump
    -Hayward Perflex DE Filter EC65A
    -Hayward H 250 Heater

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    Re: Cover Anchors

    If, by 'spinners', you meant the whole thing's spinning in the deck and the anchor won't raise, pull the whole thing out of the deck and lock onto the shell with channel locks or vice grips. Then work the anchor out as per above Once the anchor has been freed and the threads cleaned and lubed, slide the whole thing back into the hole it came out of
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Cover Anchors

    This maybe a stupid question or I'm to stubborn to take the easy way out but doesn't the anchor need to be locked in somehow, i.e. concrete, epoxy, chaulk, chewing gum?
    -400 sq ft ingroung Fiji (straight back kidney) ~ 13,500 gallons - Vinyl Liner - 3 to 6 Feet
    -Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump
    -Hayward Perflex DE Filter EC65A
    -Hayward H 250 Heater

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    Re: Cover Anchors

    I tell my customers to use plain water and a toothbrush to remove any dirt from the threads on the anchors and casings. Oils and lubes tend to attract and hold dirt.

    Anchor brand covers use 1/4" Allen heads. Loop-Loc, Merlin and Meyco use 5/16". Meyco's may use pop-ups instead of threaded anchors.

    I usually use a screw driver bit turned backwards in a battery operated drill with Loop-Loc and Merlin. Meyco gets a regular Allen key if they are pop-up style anchors. Note, when screwing anchors down, turn your clutch down to prevent torquing the anchor or it's casing.

    The taps used with Wingmaster removers are made of hardened steel. They do snap. Replacements are available at most hardware stores. Get the ones with flat, not pointed, ends. They go down further into the anchor and thus provide more thread.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Cover Anchors

    I bought a cheap slide hammer at a flea market. Welded a lag bolt to one of the supplied screws for the hammer. Twist it into the hole in the anchor screw, connect to the hammer and a few slides and it's out $9 and 15 minutes and it works slick. The brass is soft enough that the right size lag bolt turns right in with a wrench.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Cover Anchors

    Thanks all for the removal piece. I haven't received much advice on the install side. What product(s) does everyone recommend (if any) to secure the anchor?
    -400 sq ft ingroung Fiji (straight back kidney) ~ 13,500 gallons - Vinyl Liner - 3 to 6 Feet
    -Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump
    -Hayward Perflex DE Filter EC65A
    -Hayward H 250 Heater

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    Re: Cover Anchors

    The anchor casings are held in place by friction/tension. A 3/4" hole is made in the concrete (standard deck assumed) but the top rim of the casing is slightly larger. When the casing is tamped in, it is squeezed and held in place.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Cover Anchors

    Anyone willing to rent out one of these wingmaster kits? I have 5 stuck anchors.
    I can extract them but I cannot justify the cost of buying the kit for a one time removal.

    located in Freehold, NJ

    thanks!!!!

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    Re: Cover Anchors

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    This maybe a stupid question or I'm to stubborn to take the easy way out but doesn't the anchor need to be locked in somehow, i.e. concrete, epoxy, chaulk, chewing gum?
    Same question from me. I have a spinner. Can't imagine I won't be able to just pull entire thing out (next spring because not urgent- only one anchor- but I can do it now if you advise, we do get snow.
    Do I gut out the existing hole & sink the same (cleaned up) anchor in fresh cement poured in the enlarged hole?
    Better to drill a new hole nearby & fill in the old hole?
    Epoxy in the same hole?
    If epoxy what brand?
    A anything else you can suggestion is appreciated.
    19,800 gallons (closed/winter 18,654 gal); plaster; 18x34 Ft kidney bean shape, Depth 3Ft-5Ft. Built 1992
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