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Thread: How does a pump go bad?

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    scubasteve's Avatar
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    How does a pump go bad?

    I have a Hayward Super II self priming pump. I think I may be having some issues with. It seems like its not pumping water from the pool to it's full potential. The line from the pool to the pump does not seem to be obstructed, used a water weenie. If the pump were going bad, is it possible for it to be "weak" or would it just stop working all together? I am not getting any pressure at the filter and return flow is weak. I have replaced several gaskets at the pump and the filter thinking it may be an air leak....no dice.

    Any ideas?

    sS
    16,000 Gallon Inground Pool
    Hayward DE Filter
    Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner

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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    Have you checked the impeller? I've seen some pretty chewed up ones, and they don't push water to good......

    Bruce

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    Silly question but have you clean the DE filter grids correctly lately? And then re-coated the grids with the appropriate amount of DE?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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    scubasteve's Avatar
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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    yes. filter is clean.

    sS
    16,000 Gallon Inground Pool
    Hayward DE Filter
    Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner

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    spishex's Avatar
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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    Could be a clogged impeller or an air leak. Motors tend to fail completely. If one was somehow running with less power than normal it should cycle on/off from overheating.

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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    I have removed and inspected the impeller, no clogs no damage. The impeller seals and other gaskets seem to be in good shape, I am going to replace them anyways (why not i've been replacing everything else). Once I do that, all the seals gaskets and plugs at the pump housing will be new. I have replaced the gasket and washer on the multi-valse, and the o-ring inside the filter. Theres not much left to change out. I still have low flow coming into the pump housing, and low flow with some air bubbles going out to the pool. I have put a water weenie on every pipe I can access and there seems to be no blockage.



    sS
    16,000 Gallon Inground Pool
    Hayward DE Filter
    Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner

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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    A question that maybe should have been asked earlier: Why do you think it is having "issues"? Have you noticed a diminished flow (and could it be switched to solar or something else that would slow it down) or have another indication that it has changed?

    Bruce

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    OP stated the return flow was "weak".
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    The pump housing does not fill up with water. Ocassionaly it looks like it is going to fill up then drops down. Not enough flow for the filter to work properly if it even fills up completely, no pressure registering at the gauge. Gauge typically reads 10-12 PSI with fresh backwash and DE replacement. I cleaned the old DE from the filter and replaced with fresh DE. The flow is so weak that the filter grids did not get completely coated. Another low flow observation....I have a flexible line going to the booster pump, the return flow is so weak that when the booster pump kicks on the flexible line collapses from the suction created.

    Going to get a couple things later today. If they don't work, i'm callin in for some help.

    sS
    16,000 Gallon Inground Pool
    Hayward DE Filter
    Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    If your pump basket housing has air in it, you have a suction side blockage or leak somewhere. You should check the plumbing for a leak since you don't suspect a blockage.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    I would try to bypass all your current plumbing together. Make temporary supply and return lines and hook it up and see how the pump runs then. that way you can eliminate everything except for the pump itself.
    -Kevin
    X-Pert Pool Service
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    22,000 gal / 16' x 32' / Vinyl / Hayward s244t /Pentair SuperFlo 1 hp

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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by scubasteve
    I have removed and inspected the impeller, no clogs no damage. The impeller seals and other gaskets seem to be in good shape, I am going to replace them anyways (why not i've been replacing everything else). Once I do that, all the seals gaskets and plugs at the pump housing will be new. I have replaced the gasket and washer on the multi-valse, and the o-ring inside the filter. Theres not much left to change out. I still have low flow coming into the pump housing, and low flow with some air bubbles going out to the pool. I have put a water weenie on every pipe I can access and there seems to be no blockage.



    sS
    You say the plugs are new. Does that include the drain plug on the suction side of the housing? Did you seal that with teflon or a gasket?

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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by X-PertPool
    I would try to bypass all your current plumbing together. Make temporary supply and return lines and hook it up and see how the pump runs then. that way you can eliminate everything except for the pump itself.
    You hit the nail on the head right there. After a grueling day of &^#!%ing with the pump and motor and then a loaner pump and motor, we decided to run a pipe direct from the pool to the pump. BINGO!! It seems I have a crack/leak/break of some sort somewhere between the skimmer and where the line pops up to go into the pump. Heaven forbid (oh please oh please forbid!) that the break is between the bottom drain and the skimmer.

    The pool is running nicely, and I am going to have my hands full bringing it back to life. In the meantime, I am going to be busting out some pool apron and doin a whole lotta diggin to find out exactly where the problem is

    I have a sense of relief knowing what I know now. I had been wrestling with this for about a month and it was REALLY starting to wear on me. Now I just have to get my mind wrapped around how I am going to fix this.

    sS
    16,000 Gallon Inground Pool
    Hayward DE Filter
    Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner

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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    This may sound silly, but before you go busting up the concrete, make sure all the valves in all the original suction & return lines are fully open.
    36K gallon 42X22 gunite/plaster kidney-shaped IG;
    1 hp Hayward Super Pump (new in 2012);
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    TF-100 test kit.

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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    No valves.

    Before I put a shovel in the ground, I am going to make another attempt at clearing the line. I have water weenied it but I am going to put air pressure from the pump side and see if i can blow out a clog, if any. I want to be absoulutely sure that I need to replace the pipe and or skimmer before i start doing any excavation.

    sS
    16,000 Gallon Inground Pool
    Hayward DE Filter
    Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner

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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    Is the water weenie you are referring to one of those rubber bladder devices you connect to a garden hose to which inflates tightly in a pipe and pushes a clog out? You could still have something clogging the pipe, yet have enough water still going around the clogging object.

    Case in point is my pool service person just ran into something unusual. They had a customer that continually complained this year about not enough flow through the system. Finally they took a high volume blower and blew backwards from the pump end back into the skimmer. Out popped a landscaping rock. So apparently a landscaping rock got sucked up in the spring when the owner was vacuuming the pool (could not see the bottom because it was spring cleanup). That rock stayed stuck in the skimmer line most of the summer.

    So there was flow, just not ENOUGH flow. You might want to try a plumber's snake to see if there is something in the line.
    18' X 36' X 4.5' vinyl oval in-ground 17K gallons, 250K BTU Pentair Master Temp NG heater, 1HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward S200 sand filter, Hayward Pool Vac, Extreme mesh safety cover, TF-100 test kit.

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    scubasteve's Avatar
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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by alben
    Is the water weenie you are referring to one of those rubber bladder devices you connect to a garden hose to which inflates tightly in a pipe and pushes a clog out? You could still have something clogging the pipe, yet have enough water still going around the clogging object.

    Case in point is my pool service person just ran into something unusual. They had a customer that continually complained this year about not enough flow through the system. Finally they took a high volume blower and blew backwards from the pump end back into the skimmer. Out popped a landscaping rock. So apparently a landscaping rock got sucked up in the spring when the owner was vacuuming the pool (could not see the bottom because it was spring cleanup). That rock stayed stuck in the skimmer line most of the summer.

    So there was flow, just not ENOUGH flow. You might want to try a plumber's snake to see if there is something in the line.
    Yes, that is exactly what the water weenie is.

    You said High Volume Blower....do you mean a leaf blower? That just may be the type of air pressure that I am looking for. I was thinking of using my air compressor and constructing some type of fitting to blow the air through. But a leaf blower just may be what I need....hmmmmm.

    sS
    16,000 Gallon Inground Pool
    Hayward DE Filter
    Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner

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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    Yes, a leaf blower would be good. High volume of air, but not excessive pressure. Aircompressors are just the opposite. Low volume, but high pressure. Be very careful when using air compressors when used with piping. Pool piping may be able to withstand 60psi, but not more. A standard air compressor can produce a pressure of 100psi, which could blow apart a plastic pipe. Leaf blower would be a better tool to use.
    18' X 36' X 4.5' vinyl oval in-ground 17K gallons, 250K BTU Pentair Master Temp NG heater, 1HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward S200 sand filter, Hayward Pool Vac, Extreme mesh safety cover, TF-100 test kit.

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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    You may want a good wet/dry vac, some strong fishing line, wiffle golf ball. Suck line from pump to skimmer, attach ball in pump end, pull to skimmer. Remove torpedo(or your case maybe a rock?) that would not get sucked or blown out. Test ball on some elbows and valves to make sure it will fit through piping, a rag will work too(you want anything that will move through the pipe and catch/move what is in the way.) You don't mention water loss, or dirt coming in, so you probably don't have a busted line.
    Good Luck, and Best Wishes!
    22 x 40 IG vinyl lined, 23,570 gal.
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    scubasteve's Avatar
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    Re: How does a pump go bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by New2Me
    You may want a good wet/dry vac, some strong fishing line, wiffle golf ball. Suck line from pump to skimmer, attach ball in pump end, pull to skimmer. Remove torpedo(or your case maybe a rock?) that would not get sucked or blown out. Test ball on some elbows and valves to make sure it will fit through piping, a rag will work too(you want anything that will move through the pipe and catch/move what is in the way.) You don't mention water loss, or dirt coming in, so you probably don't have a busted line.
    Good Luck, and Best Wishes!
    I think I may do that just to be sure I don't have anything in that line.

    I drained my pool down to where I could put air through the line and see if anything came out. I did find an acorn and some leaves but nothing else. There may have been more b/c i wasn't standing AT the skimmer watching the entire time the leaf blower was on. After the blower, I water weenied the line again from the pump end of the line. The flow looked suprisingly good.

    I am more confident now that there are no restrictions in the line. But I am going to try and pull a rag through the line just to be sure. If all is well, I will refill the pool and see what good I have done.

    Thanks for the suggestions.

    sS
    16,000 Gallon Inground Pool
    Hayward DE Filter
    Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner

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