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Thread: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

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    New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    Howdy all, Charles from Indy here.

    I've been browsing the site most of the day, figured I might as well join and order a TF100 test kit to get started.

    No real questions yet, just wanted to say hello and document the start of my adventures. My sig will give you a short description of where I'm coming from, pool wise. I've also attached a few pics to show the acquisition. These show the state the pool, from what I gather it's been like this for the last two or three years. As of about a week ago the seller (investor) has removed the makeshift cover, cleaned out most of the leaves, dumped in what looks to be ~12 gallons of something (jugs under the deck), and partially installed a new larger sand filter. My understanding is that they have on order a new pump, and cover for the automatic cover. Whatever they dumped in has cleared the pool enough so the bottom can now be seen pretty clearly, it's still green, but much improved. At this point (until we sign) I'm just going to assume that they will do right where needed to get it up and running.

    I'm sure questions will follow as soon as we actually take over the swamp, which should be in about 10 days. Which doesn't really give me any time to do much before I'll have to figure out how to put the new toy away for the winter. In the meantime, I'll continue to read/learn from the forum.

    Photo
    Photo
    Photo

    Cheers!

    Charles
    ~9k gal IG fiberglass 3'-6', automatic safety cover, TF100 Test Kit
    1.5" plumbing, pad has 2 in (MD tied into skimmer + dedicated vacuum line) and 1 out (split into 2 returns, 3/4" eyeballs)
    3/4 HP 1.5 SF 2-speed pump with 1 HP impeller, 24" Sand Filter, CompuPool CPSC24 SWCG, Jucuzzi Tracker 2X Cleaner

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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    Welcome to TroubleFreeHaven er... Trouble Free Pool!

    Hey Charles, sure can tell from those pictures that you're going to have your work cut out for you, even if the seller gets the pool "functional" before the close. You've landed in the right place. It will be great to see a pictorial survey from (before) Day 1 until you're enjoying... (or closing ) your pool.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
    __
    View of spiral galaxy in Ursa Major NGC6217 - Hubble Telescope 2009

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    I'd say that pool wasn't functional for awhile. That's a bit scary. Can't wait to see some test results....

    Good luck and Welcome
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    Hi Charles and welcome to the forum

    Yes, a pictorial of your pool adventure would be great
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
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    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    Re: Update

    Update...I'll try to get some new pics soon.

    Well, before winter the seller had the pool brought up to working condition. It was completely cleaned (drained, washed, and refilled), they installed a new automatic cover, new pump, and new sand filter. They also repaired some leaks that were caused by termites eating through the flex pipe in several places. A pressure test confirmed no leaks. After the refill they dumped in chlorine and winterized, they added nothing else that I'm aware of.

    I opened up the cover a few times during the winter and other than some grit and worms, the water remained clear. I did add 1 gallon of bleach two times during the winter. So far this spring I've replaced the 1.5 HP motor with a 3/4 HP 2-speed, installed two timers for on/off and hi/low, and installed a CPSC24 SWCG (turned off until I get familiar with everything).

    Today I wrapped up some loose ends, filled it up to the middle of the skimmer, and flipped the switch. It worked! I am seeing a few bubbles in the pump so I must be pulling in a bit of air from somewhere. I'm also hearing chatter/bubbles flowing through the output of the sand filter, and can see a fair amount of bubbles in the SWG cell. Is that at all normal or just a result of pulling in air? With the vacuum line valve closed I'm seeing ~10 psi at the filter on high. On low the gauge reads 0, and the SWG cell loses some water and shows a good amount of air at the top. Again, I have no idea if this is normal or even acceptable..?

    Finally, here are the results of my first time using the TF100 Test Kit:

    FC - 1.8
    CC - 0.2
    pH - 8.2
    TA - 270
    CH - 320
    CYA - 0
    Salt - 320

    I figure my targets should be:

    FC - 4
    pH - 7.5
    TA - 70
    CH - 260
    CYA - 40
    Salt - 3500 (eventually)

    Does that sound about right? I'm pretty confident that I can use the Pool Calculator to get where I need to be, assuming I'm not way off here.

    Thanks,
    Charles
    ~9k gal IG fiberglass 3'-6', automatic safety cover, TF100 Test Kit
    1.5" plumbing, pad has 2 in (MD tied into skimmer + dedicated vacuum line) and 1 out (split into 2 returns, 3/4" eyeballs)
    3/4 HP 1.5 SF 2-speed pump with 1 HP impeller, 24" Sand Filter, CompuPool CPSC24 SWCG, Jucuzzi Tracker 2X Cleaner

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    It does sound like you're getting air in the system from somewhere. You will need to find and fix that. It'll be getting in there somewhere on the suction side of the pump. I think the air bubble in the SWG cell will go away when you get the air leak(s) stopped. It's not unusual for the pressure gauge to read close to zero on low speed.

    As for your target numbers;
    You're right except for the CYA. If you're planning on using the SWCG your CYA should be 70-80ppm.

    Work on your pH first then bring the rest into line. You need to get some chlorine in there pretty quickly too.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    I tightened all intake fittings and the bubbles slowed, but I'm still getting a few swirls dancing around under the pump cover. I'm not sure where air could be getting in at this point, unless it's in the plumbing or at the pool.

    Throughout the evening I added bleach, muriatic acid, 6 lbs of granulated CYA, and 21 lbs of granulated boric acid.

    Current #s are:

    FC - 6
    CC - < 0.2
    pH - 7.2
    TA - 225
    CH - did not retest
    CYA - did not retest

    If it doesn't rain all day tomorrow I'll drop pH down to 7.0 so I can lower TA some, and test borates. I still have 4 lbs left of my 25 lb order from dudadiesel.com if I need to add more to get to 50. I'll try to wait about a week to test CYA again. When I get a chance I'll pick up ~8 bags of salt.

    So far so good!
    ~9k gal IG fiberglass 3'-6', automatic safety cover, TF100 Test Kit
    1.5" plumbing, pad has 2 in (MD tied into skimmer + dedicated vacuum line) and 1 out (split into 2 returns, 3/4" eyeballs)
    3/4 HP 1.5 SF 2-speed pump with 1 HP impeller, 24" Sand Filter, CompuPool CPSC24 SWCG, Jucuzzi Tracker 2X Cleaner

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    Can you retest the TA for me...
    Wipe the tip of the R-0009 dropper bottle in between each drop with a damp cloth - static can build up causing irregular sized drops which make the test result read higher than it might actually be....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    I've kind of been doing that (when I remember). Just retested and wiped between every drop, still 9 drops to bright pink on the [10ml] bracketed test.
    ~9k gal IG fiberglass 3'-6', automatic safety cover, TF100 Test Kit
    1.5" plumbing, pad has 2 in (MD tied into skimmer + dedicated vacuum line) and 1 out (split into 2 returns, 3/4" eyeballs)
    3/4 HP 1.5 SF 2-speed pump with 1 HP impeller, 24" Sand Filter, CompuPool CPSC24 SWCG, Jucuzzi Tracker 2X Cleaner

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    Ok just wanted to be sure...
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Updated photo and question about staining.

    We've been enjoying the pool since the end of May, getting warmer by the week. I'm keeping FC between 4 - 6, and other than the process of bringing the TA down (acid/aerate/repeat), it's been surprisingly easy to manage...thanks to this forum and BBB!

    I've been noticing/ignoring some staining that has been slowly darkening since we opened. With bad weather expected all week, I finally decided to try and blow it away. In the deep end the stain appears as a greenish band. On much of the bottom, and lower sides of the shallow end, it looks more spread out and more grayish than greenish. I've tried to scrape some off but get nothing, and it feels no different than the areas with no staining. I held/rubbed several vitamin C tablets in different places, but saw no change anywhere. Then I moved on to shocking.

    With the safety cover closed and SWG off, my initial shock FC of 26 dropped to 20 after two days. The stains may have lightened slightly, or maybe it's just wishful thinking, but they're definitely still very there. This evening I brought FC back up to 28. I guess the plan is to keep FC up until I the stains go away. Hopefully that starts to happen soon. Timers are set to run the pump on low 24/7 with two hours on high split between one hour each about 12 hours apart. Just wanted to make sure I'm on the right track. Fiberglass pool sat stagnant for about 3 years prior. It was drained, pressure washed, and filled before being handed over to us.

    FC - 28
    CC - < 0.5
    pH - 7.3
    TA - 125
    CH - 320
    CYA - 55
    Salt - it's high...my target is 3500, strips say 4020, SWG says 5400 but it isn't complaining.
    Borates - 50

    photo
    photo
    ~9k gal IG fiberglass 3'-6', automatic safety cover, TF100 Test Kit
    1.5" plumbing, pad has 2 in (MD tied into skimmer + dedicated vacuum line) and 1 out (split into 2 returns, 3/4" eyeballs)
    3/4 HP 1.5 SF 2-speed pump with 1 HP impeller, 24" Sand Filter, CompuPool CPSC24 SWCG, Jucuzzi Tracker 2X Cleaner

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    Have you any trichlor tablets handy? Try rubbing the stains with trichlor tablets - if they are organic the trichlor should fade them and then you'll know if the stains will be removed from shocking.

    Usually proper FC levels fade organic staining, so that's what has me wondering if this is something else, like old copper staining (vit c wouldn't remove the copper but it might darken it.)
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    I don't, what's the smallest quantity they can be purchased? I may have noticed some darkening with the vitamin C on a golden colored stain on the top stair, but that stain is quite a bit different than the others that are elsewhere. Is there a way to test if they're Copper specifically?

    Thanks!
    ~9k gal IG fiberglass 3'-6', automatic safety cover, TF100 Test Kit
    1.5" plumbing, pad has 2 in (MD tied into skimmer + dedicated vacuum line) and 1 out (split into 2 returns, 3/4" eyeballs)
    3/4 HP 1.5 SF 2-speed pump with 1 HP impeller, 24" Sand Filter, CompuPool CPSC24 SWCG, Jucuzzi Tracker 2X Cleaner

  14. Back To Top    #14
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    Jack's make a stain i.d. kit, I think you can purchase it online, not sure if stores would carry it. As for how much trichlor can be purchased? I'm not sure...

    Here's an old post about id'ing stains: (maybe you can try these things too)

    1. hold a vitamin c tablet against the stain (which is underwater--this is important) for about 30 seconds. If ascorbic, citric, or oxalic acid is going to work this will tell you. If there is no change go to next step. If it works do an ascorbic acid treatment.

    2. fill an old, white cotton sock with dry acid and tie the top. Fill a small Tupperware container with stones or rocks (we want it to sink and not float) and cover, rubber band the sock to the underside of the container and place on stain (which is under water). Let sit 45 minutes but check at 15 minute intervals. If stain lifts or changes it is not organic and is metal. Proceed to step 4 (sponge test)

    3. Take a trichlor tablet, crush it up and put it in a white sock (NOT the one you had the acid in), affix it to the Tupperware container. Brush the stain to disturb any biofilm and place the sock on the stain. Let it sit for 30 minutes. brush well again. If there is any change to the stain it is organic. Organic stains often require quite a bit of scrubbing and an oxidizer to get them off of plastic surfaces. Think of it as a form of mildew (not completely true but there are similarities). You know how hard mildew stains are to remove and they are organic.

    4. If step 2 worked the stains are metal and probably copper. The problem is removing them from plastic or fiberglass, which is not easy, since they cannot be acid washed like plaster. Get a bottle of HEDP based metal sequestrant such as Proteam Metal Magic and a cellulose sponge (such as you use to clean the kitchen or bathroom). you will also need your rock filled Tupperware container and rubber bands. Rubber band the sponge to the container and soak the sponge with the sequestrant. Place on the stain. Check in 5 minutes. If the stain lifts and the area under the sponge is back to it's normal color it's metal, go to step 5. If it doesn't resoak the sponge with sequestrant and place on the stain for 15 minutes. If it lifts go to step 5, If it doesn't resoak the sponge and let it sit for 30 minutes. If it lifts go to step 5. IF the area near the sponge turns yellowish at any of these times the stain is organic, go back to step 3 (or use the sodium percarbonate). You WILL need to scrub and use an oxidizer like sodium percarbonate or high chlorine levels (which can bleach a liner--percarbonate is a bit safer but it still can bleach. Think of it like a color safe powdered bleach compared to liquid chlorine bleach that you use in the laundry--it's not but the analogy holds.)

    5. Make sure the water level is above the stain line!
    If the stain lifted in 5 minutes add one qt. seqestrant per 10k gallons.
    If the stain lifted in 15 minutes add two qts. seqestrant per 10k gallons.
    If the stain lifted in 30 minutes add four qts. seqestrant per 10k gallons.
    Don't try t get away with adding less. It won't work.
    The pool will probably get very cloudy for a few days to a week, this is normal. Run the pump and filter 24/7 for about 3-4 days. Check the filter pressure and clean as needed. The pool will eventually clear on it's own. Just let it run it's course. Keep your chlorine levels normal and do not shock while treating and for a few weeks after. This should remove just about all the metal stains.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  15. Back To Top    #15

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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    The rust colored stains are definitely metal. The Vitamin C did nothing, but the dry acid took it off pretty quickly. I picked up some Proteam Metal Magic and tried the sponge test on the dark band around the deep end, waited 5 minutes, reapplied and waited another 5 with no change. I got a bit impatient and decided to go ahead and toss in 2 quarts since at least the rust colored stuff appears to be copper. That was yesterday evening. This afternoon I don't see any real change with any of the stains, though, my FC and pH have dropped.

    FC - 16
    CC - < 0.5
    pH - 6.8
    TA - 100

    I'm not real sure what to do. Should I just wait? Where should I keep my FC? Maybe I should come up with a way to apply bleach full strength directly to the green band for a bit? A sealed bowl perhaps.
    ~9k gal IG fiberglass 3'-6', automatic safety cover, TF100 Test Kit
    1.5" plumbing, pad has 2 in (MD tied into skimmer + dedicated vacuum line) and 1 out (split into 2 returns, 3/4" eyeballs)
    3/4 HP 1.5 SF 2-speed pump with 1 HP impeller, 24" Sand Filter, CompuPool CPSC24 SWCG, Jucuzzi Tracker 2X Cleaner

  16. Back To Top    #16
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    Copper stains that respond to the dry acid usually means an acid wash is the only practical solution.

    Did you try trichlor on the green band?

    Your PH is awfully low...
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    Trichlor would probably be easier trying to keep bleach on it. I'll get some. Will also dissolve and add a box of Borax. Thanks.
    ~9k gal IG fiberglass 3'-6', automatic safety cover, TF100 Test Kit
    1.5" plumbing, pad has 2 in (MD tied into skimmer + dedicated vacuum line) and 1 out (split into 2 returns, 3/4" eyeballs)
    3/4 HP 1.5 SF 2-speed pump with 1 HP impeller, 24" Sand Filter, CompuPool CPSC24 SWCG, Jucuzzi Tracker 2X Cleaner

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: New user/pool owner in SW Indy

    I was able to rig up a way to hold a trichlor tablet on the greenish band overnight, and there was no change. I also held a cap full of vitamin C tablets, about six, on the stain for several hours, and again nothing. So far I've tried vitamin C, trichlor, dry acid, and Proteam's Metal Magic with no lightening. What the heck is this thing?
    ~9k gal IG fiberglass 3'-6', automatic safety cover, TF100 Test Kit
    1.5" plumbing, pad has 2 in (MD tied into skimmer + dedicated vacuum line) and 1 out (split into 2 returns, 3/4" eyeballs)
    3/4 HP 1.5 SF 2-speed pump with 1 HP impeller, 24" Sand Filter, CompuPool CPSC24 SWCG, Jucuzzi Tracker 2X Cleaner

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