I just hooked up the ultratemp 140 and have an easy touch panel. After I realized I needed a solar sensor they have been working well together. I have an Intelliflo VSF that I run from 8AM-8PM. The heater only works during those times. I am trying to figure out how to have the heat pump communicate with the pool pump to check the water temperature during those off times. I would then like it to kick the pump on for the heater if it's calling for heat. I know it is possible but can't seem to figure it out. Any help would be greatly appreciate. It is just not cost effective to have it recover 5 degrees every morning. The only other solution I see is having the pool pump run 24/7.
Getting Pentair Heat Pump to start Pool Pump
- Thread starter slizzio
- Start date
S,
Check out this thread... I think it does exactly what you want to do...
Need help getting Pentair easytouch to increase pump speed when heat command is given
Thanks,
Jim R.
Check out this thread... I think it does exactly what you want to do...
Need help getting Pentair easytouch to increase pump speed when heat command is given
Thanks,
Jim R.
That was helpful for another question I had but I actually want the heater to be able to call for a temperature and if necessary turn the pump on from off. Maybe I'm just slow, lol.
Maybe I'll need to run 24/7 at low speeds and then have it ramp up when heat is called for?
S,
When the heater is under the control of an automation system, the heater just heats.. All the temperature decisions are controlled by the EasyTouch. I don't know of any way for the heater to talk with the IntelliFlo..
Not sure you read the link completely, but basically, if the heater is off and the pool water cools below the ET's set point, the ET calls for the heater to turn on and the pump to start. As soon as the pool water is back to the set point temperature, the pump and heater shut off..
What about this operation does not satisfy what your want to do??? Or is it may turn to be "slow"?
Jim R.
When the heater is under the control of an automation system, the heater just heats.. All the temperature decisions are controlled by the EasyTouch. I don't know of any way for the heater to talk with the IntelliFlo..
Not sure you read the link completely, but basically, if the heater is off and the pool water cools below the ET's set point, the ET calls for the heater to turn on and the pump to start. As soon as the pool water is back to the set point temperature, the pump and heater shut off..
What about this operation does not satisfy what your want to do??? Or is it may turn to be "slow"?
Jim R.
It is my understanding that the pump must be running for the easy touch to know the temperature. So if the pump is off from 8PM-8AM there will never be a call for heat. Is that correct?
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I'd like the heatpump to intermittently call for a temperature check (have the intelliflo run) and if the temperature is not at the set point have the intelliflo remain on until it reaches that point. The manual for the ultratemp mentions an autoset or extend feature that "periodically energizes a contactor which can be connected to activate the filter pump. The heat pump can now start and stop the filter pump independent of the time clock, allowing the heat pump to circulate water and sense water temperature."
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I'd like the heatpump to intermittently call for a temperature check (have the intelliflo run) and if the temperature is not at the set point have the intelliflo remain on until it reaches that point. The manual for the ultratemp mentions an autoset or extend feature that "periodically energizes a contactor which can be connected to activate the filter pump. The heat pump can now start and stop the filter pump independent of the time clock, allowing the heat pump to circulate water and sense water temperature."
S,
Oh, very good point and of course you are correct.. ET would only see the stagnant water at the equipment pad not the water in the pool. And now that I think about it the other post was about increasing pump speed when the ET called for heat... :uhh:
No real reason not to run the pump 24/7... I run mine at 1200 RPM 24/7 for less than $20 bucks a month .. the only reason I don't run slower is it takes 1200 to close my SWCG flow switch..
Personally I would not want my pump going into the prime mode several times a night, as it is right outside my bedroom... Not a problem when running slow, but I can hear it when priming.
I'll have to do some research on the "autoset' feature... I can see how it would work with a single speed pump, but unsure how it would work with the IntelliFlo as it is not turned on/off with a relay.
Thanks for the heads up on the Ultratemp info...
Is your heater wired to the ET with the 2 wire fireman's switch or is there an RS-485 com port cable??
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction..
Jim R.
Oh, very good point and of course you are correct.. ET would only see the stagnant water at the equipment pad not the water in the pool. And now that I think about it the other post was about increasing pump speed when the ET called for heat... :uhh:
No real reason not to run the pump 24/7... I run mine at 1200 RPM 24/7 for less than $20 bucks a month .. the only reason I don't run slower is it takes 1200 to close my SWCG flow switch..
Personally I would not want my pump going into the prime mode several times a night, as it is right outside my bedroom... Not a problem when running slow, but I can hear it when priming.
I'll have to do some research on the "autoset' feature... I can see how it would work with a single speed pump, but unsure how it would work with the IntelliFlo as it is not turned on/off with a relay.
Thanks for the heads up on the Ultratemp info...
Is your heater wired to the ET with the 2 wire fireman's switch or is there an RS-485 com port cable??
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction..
Jim R.
S,
If it is using the com port than the heater can talk to the ET which in turn can turn on the pump.
I have no heater so I can't try it or I would.. What happens when you try the autoset feature?
Jim R.
If it is using the com port than the heater can talk to the ET which in turn can turn on the pump.
I have no heater so I can't try it or I would.. What happens when you try the autoset feature?
Jim R.
I don't understand how the temperature sensor would work without the pump running to begin with. I agree that if you have a variable speed pump just run it 24 hours a day as low as possible to turn on your swg if you have one. You can always program it to crank up if needed when the heater runs. This is the most efficient way to run your system with a variable speed pump and heat pump.
I think that there are two ways to do it.
1) Run the pump on low continuously at night and have the pump speed increase during heating.
2) Set a couple of timers to run the pump for 10 minutes at maybe 2 hour intervals and have the pump increase speed if the heater turns on.
For example, set timers from 12:00 am to 12:10 am, 2:00 am to 2:10 am, 4:00 am to 4:10 am etc.
That way you get the sampling times you want. If the heater turns on, the pump speed will increase until the heating demand is satisfied and then the pump will turn off.
If the heater does not turn on, the pump will follow the schedule and turn off after 10 minutes.
The timer has to run the pump longer than the priming time because the heater won't turn on while the pump is in priming mode.
There also might be a delay from pump on time until the heater will start. This is to allow the system to prime and to allow the water temperature sensor to reach equilibrium with the pool water.
You can set the pump priming time and speed or even turn off priming.
Some pumps don't need priming or just minimal priming of 1 minute at only slightly higher speed than operational speed.
It doesn't really cost anything significant to run at 1,200 rpm. And it's super quiet. So, running continuously isn't a problem.
It does not cost more to recover 5 degrees during the day vs keeping the temperature up at night.
In fact, it costs more to keep it heated.
Heat loss depends on water temperature, warmer water loses more heat than cooler water. So, recovering temperature always uses less energy than maintaining temperature.
Also, a heat pump is more effective and efficient during the day due to more available heat.
The main downside is that the water might be too cold when you want to swim.
If you swim in the morning and want the temperature up, then heating at night is necessary.
However, if you only swim after the heater has enough time to recover the set temperature, you're better off heating during the day.
1) Run the pump on low continuously at night and have the pump speed increase during heating.
2) Set a couple of timers to run the pump for 10 minutes at maybe 2 hour intervals and have the pump increase speed if the heater turns on.
For example, set timers from 12:00 am to 12:10 am, 2:00 am to 2:10 am, 4:00 am to 4:10 am etc.
That way you get the sampling times you want. If the heater turns on, the pump speed will increase until the heating demand is satisfied and then the pump will turn off.
If the heater does not turn on, the pump will follow the schedule and turn off after 10 minutes.
The timer has to run the pump longer than the priming time because the heater won't turn on while the pump is in priming mode.
There also might be a delay from pump on time until the heater will start. This is to allow the system to prime and to allow the water temperature sensor to reach equilibrium with the pool water.
You can set the pump priming time and speed or even turn off priming.
Some pumps don't need priming or just minimal priming of 1 minute at only slightly higher speed than operational speed.
It doesn't really cost anything significant to run at 1,200 rpm. And it's super quiet. So, running continuously isn't a problem.
It does not cost more to recover 5 degrees during the day vs keeping the temperature up at night.
In fact, it costs more to keep it heated.
Heat loss depends on water temperature, warmer water loses more heat than cooler water. So, recovering temperature always uses less energy than maintaining temperature.
Also, a heat pump is more effective and efficient during the day due to more available heat.
The main downside is that the water might be too cold when you want to swim.
If you swim in the morning and want the temperature up, then heating at night is necessary.
However, if you only swim after the heater has enough time to recover the set temperature, you're better off heating during the day.
And that is exactly the question. There is a way to have the heater turn on the pump to get a temperature at set times. I think I am just going to run it 24 hours a day though. Thanks.
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Thanks JamesW. I appreciate the thorough response. I just assumed it would be more cost effective to maintain a temperature. We don't usually swim until mid day. Figuring out a schedule is way more difficult than I assumed it would be. If I have the Pool circuit run at 1200 RPM 24 hours a day and then the Heat Pump ramp it up to 2000 RPM when calling for heat it would maintain all night. Is there a way to avoid this at night or would I have to just not use the pool circuit at night and set up a separate circuit to run at 1200 RPM during the times I don't want the heat on?
You can operate the heat pump as a "Solar" heater.
That way, the heater follows the same rules as solar heating. You would put the solar sensor near the equipment.
That way, the heater follows the same rules as solar heating. You would put the solar sensor near the equipment.
It's already showing up as "solar" in the eztouch display. Should it be showing up as something else?
If it's set up as solar, then it should follow the same rules as solar.
So, it shouldn't run at night when temperatures are cooler.
So, it shouldn't run at night when temperatures are cooler.
In the Screenlogic configuration app I have under other equipment:
Solar Present: Yes
Solar is heat pump: Yes
Ultratemp or ThermaFlo: Yes
Has cooling: No
Pump on during heater cool-down: No
This is the only configuration that I've seen the heat kick on with. It still runs at night with these settings but shows up as solar in the top right of the easytouch display. Is this what you mean by set up as solar? If I change Solar Present to no it actually turns heating off in the heatpump configuration.
Solar Present: Yes
Solar is heat pump: Yes
Ultratemp or ThermaFlo: Yes
Has cooling: No
Pump on during heater cool-down: No
This is the only configuration that I've seen the heat kick on with. It still runs at night with these settings but shows up as solar in the top right of the easytouch display. Is this what you mean by set up as solar? If I change Solar Present to no it actually turns heating off in the heatpump configuration.
If the temperature is warm enough at night, the heat pump will work. You can change Solar settings. Go to Solar in menu.
You can increase the Start temperature differential to prevent heating at night. If you have high nighttime temperatures, heating is efficient enough to just let it run at night.
You can increase the Start temperature differential to prevent heating at night. If you have high nighttime temperatures, heating is efficient enough to just let it run at night.
Thanks. As of right now I just have the solar sensor sitting inside the box behind the easytouch panel. That's what pentair told me to do with it because they said it was for the resistance only.