Can hydrogen peroxide be added to the pool instead of Baquacil Oxidizer?

[anthonypool89]

It has certainly been a rude awakening having bought the Taylor kit that tests for peroxide. I just can’t seem to keep the level above 30. I swear I could just about add a gallon every other day. I now know why I was having problems with mold before getting this test kit with just following a routine 1.5 qt. once-a-week maintenance dose. I’m sure my levels were dipping way below 30 and then probably only came up a bit.


Since the last week in May, I must have added close to 5 gallons…that’s in only a little over 3 weeks. At this rate of consumption, a vague calculation amounts to like 25 gallons needed for the remainder of the summer….sort of a bit excessive I’d think (let alone rather expensive). I know a biguanide pool is costly to maintain…but…seriously? I thought CDX is supposed to help maintain an oxidizer level.


With all this in mind, is it possible to simply add pure hydrogen peroxide? Figuring that a gallon of oxidizer - be it sold by Softswim or Baquacil - has 27.5% peroxide and the rest being water, seems like I’m paying alot to add close to 3/4 gallon of water to the pool every time I want to boost up the oxidizer level! OR....if it is really necessary to add the (approximately) 1 to 3 parts peroxide to water mixture, I could mix that myself. Any thoughts on this? if no other way, guess I start looking for the cheapest bulk supplies of oxidizer I can find!




Thanks,
Keith

 

[anthonypool89]

OK...some quick research shows that it would probably be hard to find concentrations greater than what already exists in the Baquacil formulation. Unfortunate. So guess the only option is to fill my basement with crates of the stuff. This is a bit too reminiscent of the "chlorine demand" situation I ran into back when I was still using chlorine. That's why I switched to biguanide in the first place.

 

[Donldson]

Consumers can get up to 70%, anything higher is restricted to industrial use.

It can be pretty nasty stuff at that concentration, instantly bleaching skin on contact and requiring some precautions. You might be able to find some 35% more easily. No idea if any of it would be a money savings, the additional refining to that purity adds cost. If you could find 55 gallon drums of some generic brand it would probably be cheaper than baqua labeled stuff, I suppose.

 

[anthonypool89]

Thanks Donldson....it was just an idea. Didn't realize it is difficult to get the higher concentrations. As you say, if I'd wind up paying more, I probably wouldn't be saving any money anyway, and then have the added hassle of figuring out the proper dosage for the pool.

 

[pookiesunshine]

Anthony, have you tried their Line Clean product treatment? That is what i used when i had pink slime rear it's ugly head. that lasted a while but......

i think it is the same chemical as mps or non-chlorine shock, but check for yourself, dont take my word. anyway, the treatment also requires heavy doses of peroxide along with CDX and sanitizer above the normal weekly doses.

just a thought for a temporary solution; did not work long term for me, hence my conversion!

good luck.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I thought this would be your finding when you got the test kit for peroxide. I never thought a weekly dose of peroxide would be able to maintain their 30-50ppm spec. Peroxide is as reactive as chlorine to organic waste and UV photolysis. Since it can’t be easily stabilized (even with CDX) as chlorine can with cyanuric acid, the UV loss rate is very high. You might try doing an overnight peroxide loss test where you measure the peroxide levels after sundown and before sunrise to see what the loss rate is to your pool water (from organics and anything biological that might be in your water). Then you can compare that to a daytime loss amount. In a clean and clear chlorinated swimming pool, overnight losses are less than 1ppm and typically much lower than that (move loses 0.2ppm overnight). Daytime chlorine loses are typically 1-4ppm depending on UV exposure.

 

[anthonypool89]

Wait...I thought the oxidizer level is supposed to be kept between 40-80? At least that is what a Baquacil rep told me..... Sanitizer level should be around 50.

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Anthony, have you tried their Line Clean product treatment? That is what i used when i had pink slime rear it's ugly head. that lasted a while but......

i think it is the same chemical as mps or non-chlorine shock, but check for yourself, dont take my word. anyway, the treatment also requires heavy doses of peroxide along with CDX and sanitizer above the normal weekly doses.

just a thought for a temporary solution; did not work long term for me, hence my conversion!

good luck.

I know you suggested this to me before and I did look into it. Pretty sure the reason I didn't pursue it is that it requires vacuuming to waste at some point. I can't do that with my filter plumbing system.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Wait...I thought the oxidizer level is supposed to be kept between 40-80? At least that is what a Baquacil rep told me..... Sanitizer level should be around 50.

You are right. I’m not totally up on the detailed recommended levels for Baquacil as we rarely get folks around here that want to stick with it. Even so, trying to maintain a powerful oxidizer at that level with inconsistent dosing is just insane (not you, the Baquacil manufacturer’s). The loss rates from UV exposure are just going to be too high.

You might consider getting a Stenner pump setup where a peristaltic pump delivers the Baquacil oxidizer at a slow rate and does so on a timer. That way your pool water is being dosed consistently everyday and all you need to do is test and adjust the output of the pump as needed. The Stenner tanks typically hold about 15 gallons of liquid so, if you can find a bulk supplier with a good price, then the Stenner pump can relieve you of having to manually add the oxidizer.

People around here do Stenner pumps for liquid chlorine all the time so you can simply look through those threads to get ideas.

 

[pookiesunshine]

.......I know you suggested this to me before .....

I did have a sense of deja vu.

 

[anthonypool89]

I did have a sense of deja vu.

lol....thanks anyway! I appreciate your taking the time to post!

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You are right. I’m not totally up on the detailed recommended levels for Baquacil as we rarely get folks around here that want to stick with it. Even so, trying to maintain a powerful oxidizer at that level with inconsistent dosing is just insane (not you, the Baquacil manufacturer’s). The loss rates from UV exposure are just going to be too high.

You might consider getting a Stenner pump setup where a peristaltic pump delivers the Baquacil oxidizer at a slow rate and does so on a timer. That way your pool water is being dosed consistently everyday and all you need to do is test and adjust the output of the pump as needed. The Stenner tanks typically hold about 15 gallons of liquid so, if you can find a bulk supplier with a good price, then the Stenner pump can relieve you of having to manually add the oxidizer.

People around here do Stenner pumps for liquid chlorine all the time so you can simply look through those threads to get ideas.

I'm sure it's a great idea, but no....I don't want to complicate or add to the existing plumbing and filtering system unless absolutely essential. Before I'd go through all that trouble, I'd probably switch back to chlorine!!

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[JoyfulNoise]

I'm sure it's a great idea, but no....I don't want to complicate or add to the existing plumbing and filtering system unless absolutely essential. Before I'd go through all that trouble, I'd probably switch back to chlorine!!

You should look into it. It’s literally a small pump (peristaltic), a sealed container for the liquid chemical, a check valve and a saddle clamp that fits over an exiting return line in your plumbing. The only plumbing work needed is to drill a small hole in your return pipe and put the injection valve and saddle clamp on....my 13 year old could do it. The hardest part would simply be wiring the (very small) peristaltic pump up to whatever timer/automation system you have (it can even be plugged into a wall outlet and controlled by a switch). It would be slaved to the pool pumps timer so that the Stenner could never operate without the pool pump going.

The reason why I think you should seriously consider this is because your biggest problem is this (and it’s true for all Baquacil pools) - inconsistency in chemical management (and that goes for chlorine pools too!)

The reason why you get mold/algae/bacteria problems is because your sanitizer and oxidizer levels fluctuate all over the place. There are probably days when your water has chemical levels far too low for proper sanitation and then the critters start to grow. You come along, throw some chemicals in and kill them off a bit (but not enough) and then the chemicals get low again. This cycle repeats over and over and over again for days on end until the water is fouled with pathogens and you start getting slimy walls, fouled-up pipes and a filter clogged with dead biological debris. The only thing that’s stops this from happening is getting the water cleared up and then consistently testing and dosing on a daily basis.

Most people are simply too busy in their daily lives to do the daily chemical addition or stuff happens in your life and you can’t get to the pool. Automation like Stenner pumps (or, in my case, a salt water chlorine generator) makes life with a pool a thousand times easier and are well worth their installation and operational costs. For example, I went away on a 7 day vacation recently and then, a week later, a 5 day camp trip with my kids. During those times away no one was tending to the pool (I am the pool manager) and it was completely on autopilot. The water was perfectly clean and clear before I left and, upon return, was still completely clean and clear. In each instance of returning, all I needed to do was lower pH a bit.

But, if you’d rather dump Baquacil and go back to chlorine, no here is going to stop you

 

[anthonypool89]

It all makes sense and I'm sure works as you described, but I really don't think I want to pursue this. For one thing, it's not just the pump, but also - if I read you correctly - a 15 gallon supply tank that has to go somewhere. I presume this would have to be mounted on a concrete (or other) platform, especially at our place where the wind gets absolutely ferocious at times up on the hill where we live. I really don't know where I'd put it as there is a pool heater that takes up most of the remaining available room. And, a few years back I had a landscaper create a stone border around the perimeter of all the equipment. That area would undoubtedly need to be expanded. So, all in all, I'll take my chances with self-monitoring, but appreciate your taking the time to explain all that.