New install. Intelliflo pump shuts down when attempting to run legend II cleaner. The only way it won't shut down is if I either have the returns full open and the pump at approx. 80+ gpm (to get the cleaner to move) or the returns closed, relief valve at wall fitting full open and flow set at 15 gpm. If I try 20 gpm filter pressure hits 35-40# and pump shuts down. Cleaner line is 1.5". Pump works fine if I remove cleaner from the end of the hose. Can the intelliflo operate this cleaner only without having to slipstream water somewhere else? I was led to believe that it could. As it is I'm not seeing any efficiency when running the cleaner. The motor runs at 3000 rpm, 1800 watts at 83 gpm. In return mode running 23 gpm and 175 watts and 0-1 psi on filter, which is good! No issues on water feature mode either. Any ideas or comments would be greatly appreciated.
Intelliflo/legend II problems
- Thread starter tmoss
- Start date
This is near the edge of my hydralics knowledge but I believe that the Intelliflow is not so good at the combination of low flow rate and high pressure. You are probably going past the edge of it's design envelope. The best alternative would be to have a pressure regulated return to allow the flow rate to increase without losing all the pressure. But even then I suspect that you will not be in the high efficency range.
Boster pumps are specifically designed for high pressure low flow situations, which work much better with a different impellor design. Some cleaners work with lower pressures and might be a better combination with the Intelliflow.
Boster pumps are specifically designed for high pressure low flow situations, which work much better with a different impellor design. Some cleaners work with lower pressures and might be a better combination with the Intelliflow.
Jason is correct. The Intelliflo is not designed to be like a standalone pressure-side pump that produces up to 50 PSI (about 115 feet of head) at a low flow rate (say, < 25 GPM). At it's maximum RPM of 3450, at 20 GPM it produces 94 feet of head, or 41 PSI.
I just got an Intelliflo (and IntelliTouch) and wanted to get rid of my dedicated pressure-side pump running a Letro Legend cleaner. I looked for a cleaner that was designed to run off the returns at lower flow (and pressure). I, too, have a dedicated 1.5" line for the cleaner. I found The Pool Cleaner and my PB told me he was at first skeptical but tried it in his pool a few years ago and is still very happy with it. So I got it and it does work, BUT I found that with 3 returns plus the dedicated return for the cleaner it doesn't make sense to run the cleaner at the same time as the main returns. I tried having mixed flow, but even The Pool Cleaner really needs a dedicated or near-dedicated flow to it -- it has too much resistance which will just force the water to go elsewhere (if it can).
So my current setup has the valve that turns the cleaner on simply redirect all flow from the 3 returns to the single cleaner line and I have my pump set at it's lowest of 15 GPM. The cleaner in this mode is actually a little on the high side of its recommended wheel RPM, but seems to clean better and it's not getting overflow from the pressure relief valve. Worst case, a SMALL amount of diversion to the other returns would be OK, but I find things to be far less consistent where there are other paths the water can go (the smallest pressure blip causes a lot of flow to divert and I think that results in not quite as good a cleaning method). With The Pool Cleaner, the pump runs at 15 GPM, 2180 RPM and 540 Watts which isn't too bad. With the cleaner off and going through 3 returns, I could be at 15 GPM, 1175 RPM, 155 Watts but I'm set up to do a single turnover over 8 hours of daytime and 3 hours of cleaner time later at night (I'm thinking of reducing it to 2 hours since it's cleaning so well) so am at 24 GPM, 1400 RPM, 232 Watts which is still really good. When my solar is on, I'm at 48 GPM, 2980 RPM, 1500 Watts which is still better than my previous pump, but I've set a slightly lower flow rate so slightly lower solar heating efficiency (my previous pump was probably at around 52-54 GPM).
My biggest worry is that the Intelliflo isn't letting me prioritize the custom flows and instead if more than one custom feature is on at a time, then it just uses the largest of the flows. So I HAVE to run my cleaner at night and can't share the daytime because if the solar turns on at 48 GPM but the cleaner is running with all flow to its single dedicated line -- well, you can imagine what will happen. Probably the pump will get to its max RPM and then shut down, unable to achieve flow (and the pressure relief valve at the cleaner outlet will be propped open a lot, I'm sure!). There is a "Master Cleaner" setting that can be used with the cleaner which will shut down the solar when the cleaner turns on, but it only does that for 5 minutes so does me no good so I just run as "Generic" and have a regular filter program on during the cleaner time (perhaps I'll change my mind about this -- not sure yet).
Anyway, I'm happy with my current setup. I hope it works for you (though it does mean getting a new cleaner). Quite frankly, I was fed up with the Letro Legend anyway since the bags don't close well anymore (I had just got a new one less than a year ago) and parts get broken now and then. The Pool Cleaner has far fewer moving parts and the bag is much better designed with the velcro part on the side rather than the top, so it tends to stay closed better. Well, at least so far. The company is located in Santa Rosa which isn't far from where I live so worst case I can complain in person if there are any problems.
One thing to keep in mind is that The Pool Cleaner uses a much fatter 2" (I think) hose compared to the Letro Legend. It comes with an adapter for the return line. The good news is that it has a very easy twist removal so taking the hose and cleaner out is very easy (we do that to maximize swim area -- it doesn't stick out that far, but we're picky).
Richard
I just got an Intelliflo (and IntelliTouch) and wanted to get rid of my dedicated pressure-side pump running a Letro Legend cleaner. I looked for a cleaner that was designed to run off the returns at lower flow (and pressure). I, too, have a dedicated 1.5" line for the cleaner. I found The Pool Cleaner and my PB told me he was at first skeptical but tried it in his pool a few years ago and is still very happy with it. So I got it and it does work, BUT I found that with 3 returns plus the dedicated return for the cleaner it doesn't make sense to run the cleaner at the same time as the main returns. I tried having mixed flow, but even The Pool Cleaner really needs a dedicated or near-dedicated flow to it -- it has too much resistance which will just force the water to go elsewhere (if it can).
So my current setup has the valve that turns the cleaner on simply redirect all flow from the 3 returns to the single cleaner line and I have my pump set at it's lowest of 15 GPM. The cleaner in this mode is actually a little on the high side of its recommended wheel RPM, but seems to clean better and it's not getting overflow from the pressure relief valve. Worst case, a SMALL amount of diversion to the other returns would be OK, but I find things to be far less consistent where there are other paths the water can go (the smallest pressure blip causes a lot of flow to divert and I think that results in not quite as good a cleaning method). With The Pool Cleaner, the pump runs at 15 GPM, 2180 RPM and 540 Watts which isn't too bad. With the cleaner off and going through 3 returns, I could be at 15 GPM, 1175 RPM, 155 Watts but I'm set up to do a single turnover over 8 hours of daytime and 3 hours of cleaner time later at night (I'm thinking of reducing it to 2 hours since it's cleaning so well) so am at 24 GPM, 1400 RPM, 232 Watts which is still really good. When my solar is on, I'm at 48 GPM, 2980 RPM, 1500 Watts which is still better than my previous pump, but I've set a slightly lower flow rate so slightly lower solar heating efficiency (my previous pump was probably at around 52-54 GPM).
My biggest worry is that the Intelliflo isn't letting me prioritize the custom flows and instead if more than one custom feature is on at a time, then it just uses the largest of the flows. So I HAVE to run my cleaner at night and can't share the daytime because if the solar turns on at 48 GPM but the cleaner is running with all flow to its single dedicated line -- well, you can imagine what will happen. Probably the pump will get to its max RPM and then shut down, unable to achieve flow (and the pressure relief valve at the cleaner outlet will be propped open a lot, I'm sure!). There is a "Master Cleaner" setting that can be used with the cleaner which will shut down the solar when the cleaner turns on, but it only does that for 5 minutes so does me no good so I just run as "Generic" and have a regular filter program on during the cleaner time (perhaps I'll change my mind about this -- not sure yet).
Anyway, I'm happy with my current setup. I hope it works for you (though it does mean getting a new cleaner). Quite frankly, I was fed up with the Letro Legend anyway since the bags don't close well anymore (I had just got a new one less than a year ago) and parts get broken now and then. The Pool Cleaner has far fewer moving parts and the bag is much better designed with the velcro part on the side rather than the top, so it tends to stay closed better. Well, at least so far. The company is located in Santa Rosa which isn't far from where I live so worst case I can complain in person if there are any problems.
One thing to keep in mind is that The Pool Cleaner uses a much fatter 2" (I think) hose compared to the Letro Legend. It comes with an adapter for the return line. The good news is that it has a very easy twist removal so taking the hose and cleaner out is very easy (we do that to maximize swim area -- it doesn't stick out that far, but we're picky).
Richard
Great response. Now that I'm home I see my pump is running 2000 watts in cleaner mode. This recent configuration was set up by the local Pentair rep. The flow out of the returns is so great that it pushes the cleaner hose to the point where the cleaner gets turned around. It appears that because of that I have to run the cleaner longer to clean the whole pool. I would like to try lowering the sepoint below the current 83 gpm but the wheel rpm is at 26 and the cleaner gets stuck in the two corners as it is. I think it needs more pressure. I seriously doubt my PB will swap the legend out for the Pool Cleaner. Does the debris bag have as fine a mesh as the legend? The legend does get the pool bottom very clean if it runs long enough. My PB did suggest I bring the cleaner in to have them test it (for some reason the tail will not sweep regardless of the flow/pressure). I just may return to my previous set up where all flow is diverted to the cleaner at 15 gpm and open the relief valve all the way. The cleaner works better in that configuration and the pump runs at 800 watts. And the excess flow is contained to the area at the wall connection instead of all 6 returns. Is there any real advantage to running flow to all returns while a pressure cleaner is running? Based on my limited experience I haven't seen any.
I didn't compare the debris bags side by side so I don't know if it's as fine, but it seems pretty good. The debris bag mostly gets cedar needles, but I have seen dirt in it so I suppose it's fine enough to trap that.
The downside to having other returns on at the same time as the cleaner is that their flow can disrupt the cleaner's position. Usually it's recommended that the eyeballs be pointed down so that the return flow doesn't push the hose around since that's how the return flow interferes with the cleaner. On the other hand, if you don't have return flow then you don't get surface skimmer action and part of what the Legend does with its tail is kick up things that might end up floating and get skimmed off. So that won't happen if the other returns are off, but I think that's a minor event and mostly the Legend just moves stuff from the bottom into the bag. My new cleaner, The Pool Cleaner, doesn't have any tail so my surface skimmer cleaning is only done during the regular 8-hour filter cycle, but that seems to work fine.
Sounds like you're sorting out how to make it work. I agree that just diverting flow at the side outlet would have the least negative effect on the cleaner.
Richard
The downside to having other returns on at the same time as the cleaner is that their flow can disrupt the cleaner's position. Usually it's recommended that the eyeballs be pointed down so that the return flow doesn't push the hose around since that's how the return flow interferes with the cleaner. On the other hand, if you don't have return flow then you don't get surface skimmer action and part of what the Legend does with its tail is kick up things that might end up floating and get skimmed off. So that won't happen if the other returns are off, but I think that's a minor event and mostly the Legend just moves stuff from the bottom into the bag. My new cleaner, The Pool Cleaner, doesn't have any tail so my surface skimmer cleaning is only done during the regular 8-hour filter cycle, but that seems to work fine.
Sounds like you're sorting out how to make it work. I agree that just diverting flow at the side outlet would have the least negative effect on the cleaner.
Richard
I'm now noticing air bubbles from one return when running at 23 gpm. It wasn't doing this 2 weeks ago. My pot lid has just a small bubble on top. I checked the filter but only get water at the relief valve. So far it only appears to occur at the same return at the same flowrate. Any ideas? If air was leaking in around the pump wouldn't it show up at more than one return. I have 6 and they're looped together.
As for the pump/cleaner issues I'm wondering if part of my high backpressure issue is due to the plumbing off of the pump. There are 3 90's before entering the filter and 3 leaving the the filter before heading to the pool. The first 90 off of the discharge is only 7 inches from the outlet face of the pump. It seems I read somewhere that it needs to be a minimum of 5 times the pipe ID. So 2" pipe means 10" before a 90. It then runs about 18", turns 90 for about a foot or so before another 90 right into the filter. Filter discharge has an offset along with the 3 90's. The pump is now running 2500 watts in cleaner mode. Filter must be loading up some or something else is going on. I had a guy from the company that built the pool check the cleaner at their shop and said it's working fine. His suggestion was to go with a 4 x 160. They won't give me a different cleaner. He said that he spoke to the foreman who oversaw the construction of the pool and he mentioned the plumbing layout with all the 90's as a contributing factor. Now I'm wondering if I should have them cleanup the plumbing to minimize all the bends. I would think a PB would know better in the first place, especially since there are existing issues with this pump/cleaner configuration.
As for the pump/cleaner issues I'm wondering if part of my high backpressure issue is due to the plumbing off of the pump. There are 3 90's before entering the filter and 3 leaving the the filter before heading to the pool. The first 90 off of the discharge is only 7 inches from the outlet face of the pump. It seems I read somewhere that it needs to be a minimum of 5 times the pipe ID. So 2" pipe means 10" before a 90. It then runs about 18", turns 90 for about a foot or so before another 90 right into the filter. Filter discharge has an offset along with the 3 90's. The pump is now running 2500 watts in cleaner mode. Filter must be loading up some or something else is going on. I had a guy from the company that built the pool check the cleaner at their shop and said it's working fine. His suggestion was to go with a 4 x 160. They won't give me a different cleaner. He said that he spoke to the foreman who oversaw the construction of the pool and he mentioned the plumbing layout with all the 90's as a contributing factor. Now I'm wondering if I should have them cleanup the plumbing to minimize all the bends. I would think a PB would know better in the first place, especially since there are existing issues with this pump/cleaner configuration.
All of those 90s will increase your dynamic head but they won't put air into the water. Air usually comes from a suction side leak, typically the pump strainer basket lid or low water level in the skimmer. There can also sometimes be air in the filter that gets flushed out slowly through the returns, but you checked that. Seeing air from only one of the returns is not uncommon. Often most of the air will come out of the first return it comes to.
Richard, have you found a way to have the intellitouch with the intelliflo calculate a new optimized time when you run your features? Currently, I run my filter on a 15 hour cycle. To do 1 turnover, it runs at 23 gph. I also have solar so when that kicks on, it runs at 45 gph. My intelliflo does not calculate a new optimized time based on the new flow rate like it says in the manual. It still won't shut off until 15 hours. I think this is a drawback when using the intellitouch.
Ron
Ron
Ron,
I had a factory service guy out at my home (unfortunately, I was at work at the time as it was unannounced -- he was just "in the area", but I talked to him by phone) and I told him about the same thing that you are seeing. The flow rate is calculated based on NO FEATURES being on, such as solar, and it does not recalculate either flow rate nor shut off "early" after such a feature with a higher flow rate has run. He told me that they have been back and forth on this, but that the current state for the controllers is that they do not recalculate the flow rate nor time when a feature is used. I told him that this didn't make sense since the whole idea of a turnover is flow through the filter and circulation and clearly those occur faster when a feature is on. Since some users with the older system apparently complained about what they perceived as the pump not running long enough (due to features), I suggested they just add another user-settable parameter to go either way.
So it is true that you and I won't get the benefit of a shorter runtime when the solar has been on so won't get the full energy savings benefit because of that. In my case, this isn't as bad as it sounds since I found that the "sweet spot" for the pump in my system in terms of minimal total energy usage is around 24 GPM, 1400 RPM, 232 Watts. Slower flow rates have lower wattage, but longer run times to get the same turnover and the net effect is a higher total energy usage, though this sweet spot is pretty "flat" and even 15 GPM, 1175 RPM, 155 Watts is only about 8% more energy usage than the sweet spot. Where things get bad is at higher flow rates above around 30 GPM when total energy usage goes way up (which makes sense given the roughly quadratic system curve shape associated with greater friction and energy loss at the higher flow rates).
So I decided to set my system to the shortest time that brackets my possible solar "on" time (so 8 hours from 9 to 5) plus time after that for my cleaner (which runs at 15 GPM on a valve-switched dedicated line) which is 2 hours. So though technically on a really hot day I could have 1 hour before solar, 4 hours of solar (then temp is reached) and then the pump COULD turn off, instead the pump stays on for an unneeded 3 hours, though at a low 265 Watts. So I'm wasting 25 cents per day (at 32 cents per KWh) or $7.50 per month during a couple of peak summer months (most months, more solar is needed than just 4 hours due to fog/clouds in the morning or cooler days). Hopefully, they will change the system to match their marketing literature (I pointed that out to him).
Because of all the various bugs I've found in the system and their inaccurate tech support (they told me that flow priorities could be ordered in the system to determine which of multiple features takes precedence, but that is wrong -- if multiple features are on, then the highest flow rate of those features is used, regardless of their order in the list), the Pentair guy was going to send me a free upgrade to the i9s (I have an i5s) which would allow me to program macros to get around this flow priority situation. That will let me ensure that I never accidentally set a high flow rate when the cleaner is on, for example.
There is no question that the system (IntelliTouch) is a bit quirky and has some bugs. I found that the overall flow rate calculation for the filtering mode doesn't recalculate if you have the time split into two pieces and only change the second piece. I had to "fake" change the first time range as well as the second and save both in order for the system to realize it needed to recalculate. There is also flakiness with Manual Op Priority since it seemed to never accept "No" internally, but now for whatever reason it seems that it might be working (so no longer stays on for 12 hours if manually turned on, but instead will turn off at the normal automatic time).
Since I'm a software engineer/manager, I get annoyed when such bugs slips through QA (or are created in the first place, usually through inadequate design).
Richard
I had a factory service guy out at my home (unfortunately, I was at work at the time as it was unannounced -- he was just "in the area", but I talked to him by phone) and I told him about the same thing that you are seeing. The flow rate is calculated based on NO FEATURES being on, such as solar, and it does not recalculate either flow rate nor shut off "early" after such a feature with a higher flow rate has run. He told me that they have been back and forth on this, but that the current state for the controllers is that they do not recalculate the flow rate nor time when a feature is used. I told him that this didn't make sense since the whole idea of a turnover is flow through the filter and circulation and clearly those occur faster when a feature is on. Since some users with the older system apparently complained about what they perceived as the pump not running long enough (due to features), I suggested they just add another user-settable parameter to go either way.
So it is true that you and I won't get the benefit of a shorter runtime when the solar has been on so won't get the full energy savings benefit because of that. In my case, this isn't as bad as it sounds since I found that the "sweet spot" for the pump in my system in terms of minimal total energy usage is around 24 GPM, 1400 RPM, 232 Watts. Slower flow rates have lower wattage, but longer run times to get the same turnover and the net effect is a higher total energy usage, though this sweet spot is pretty "flat" and even 15 GPM, 1175 RPM, 155 Watts is only about 8% more energy usage than the sweet spot. Where things get bad is at higher flow rates above around 30 GPM when total energy usage goes way up (which makes sense given the roughly quadratic system curve shape associated with greater friction and energy loss at the higher flow rates).
So I decided to set my system to the shortest time that brackets my possible solar "on" time (so 8 hours from 9 to 5) plus time after that for my cleaner (which runs at 15 GPM on a valve-switched dedicated line) which is 2 hours. So though technically on a really hot day I could have 1 hour before solar, 4 hours of solar (then temp is reached) and then the pump COULD turn off, instead the pump stays on for an unneeded 3 hours, though at a low 265 Watts. So I'm wasting 25 cents per day (at 32 cents per KWh) or $7.50 per month during a couple of peak summer months (most months, more solar is needed than just 4 hours due to fog/clouds in the morning or cooler days). Hopefully, they will change the system to match their marketing literature (I pointed that out to him).
Because of all the various bugs I've found in the system and their inaccurate tech support (they told me that flow priorities could be ordered in the system to determine which of multiple features takes precedence, but that is wrong -- if multiple features are on, then the highest flow rate of those features is used, regardless of their order in the list), the Pentair guy was going to send me a free upgrade to the i9s (I have an i5s) which would allow me to program macros to get around this flow priority situation. That will let me ensure that I never accidentally set a high flow rate when the cleaner is on, for example.
There is no question that the system (IntelliTouch) is a bit quirky and has some bugs. I found that the overall flow rate calculation for the filtering mode doesn't recalculate if you have the time split into two pieces and only change the second piece. I had to "fake" change the first time range as well as the second and save both in order for the system to realize it needed to recalculate. There is also flakiness with Manual Op Priority since it seemed to never accept "No" internally, but now for whatever reason it seems that it might be working (so no longer stays on for 12 hours if manually turned on, but instead will turn off at the normal automatic time).
Since I'm a software engineer/manager, I get annoyed when such bugs slips through QA (or are created in the first place, usually through inadequate design).
Richard
I don't see my system being as efficient as yours. At 23GPM, my pump is running closer to 2100 and around 500 watts with a clean DE filter. I think yesterday when I checked, it was closer to 2200 and 600 watts. I am using a suction cleaner with a dedicated 2" pipe and my skimmer has a 2.5" pipe. I have to adjust the valve toward the suction line more for the cleaner to work so that may make a difference. What type of filter are you using?
I've got two floor drains and one skimmer, with the two floor drains sharing a 1.5" line and the skimmer on a separate 1.5" line -- so they are manually valved separately at the equipment pad and then come together into the pump (via a 2" pipe). The output of the pump is 2" throughout and goes to an oversized 4-cartridge filter (so, a cartridge filter, not DE or sand), optional (valve switched) solar path, then gas heater. The 2" output line then goes to the pool and splits into 1.5" lines to each of 3 returns.
With my solar on, I'm at 48 GPM, 2980 RPM, 1500 Watts and have 12 solar panels on a roof with rather long lines, multiple roof hips/panels, so lots of 90-degree elbows.
I suspect your higher energy usage is due to the suction adjustment towards the cleaner (away from the skimmer). I found the same issue on the pressure side with my pressure cleaner and gave up on trying to have it on all the time (with the flow split between it and the returns) -- it wasted a lot of energy and the cleaner really didn't need to be on all the time (and would be annoying while swimming, etc.). So I had a separate valve put in that is triggered by the IntelliTouch to have the pressure side cleaner only on at specific times and I ended up just completely switching to its dedicated line when on. So when the cleaner is on, I'm at 15 GPM, 2180 RPM, 540 Watts which just shows what happens when trying to force all the flow through a 1.5" line and, especially, a cleaner (and is closer to your numbers as well). I suspect you are seeing the same effect, but on the suction side. If possible, if you can add a valve controlled by the IntelliTouch and only have your cleaner on part of the time, then I'll bet you'll get good energy savings when your cleaner is not on (i.e. when doing normal filtering during the day).
Richard
With my solar on, I'm at 48 GPM, 2980 RPM, 1500 Watts and have 12 solar panels on a roof with rather long lines, multiple roof hips/panels, so lots of 90-degree elbows.
I suspect your higher energy usage is due to the suction adjustment towards the cleaner (away from the skimmer). I found the same issue on the pressure side with my pressure cleaner and gave up on trying to have it on all the time (with the flow split between it and the returns) -- it wasted a lot of energy and the cleaner really didn't need to be on all the time (and would be annoying while swimming, etc.). So I had a separate valve put in that is triggered by the IntelliTouch to have the pressure side cleaner only on at specific times and I ended up just completely switching to its dedicated line when on. So when the cleaner is on, I'm at 15 GPM, 2180 RPM, 540 Watts which just shows what happens when trying to force all the flow through a 1.5" line and, especially, a cleaner (and is closer to your numbers as well). I suspect you are seeing the same effect, but on the suction side. If possible, if you can add a valve controlled by the IntelliTouch and only have your cleaner on part of the time, then I'll bet you'll get good energy savings when your cleaner is not on (i.e. when doing normal filtering during the day).
Richard
I thought about adding a actuator so that when the cleaner comes on, it would shut off the water flow from the skimmer. This would require that the cleaner is always connected. What would happen if we forgot to connect the cleaner and it is time for the cleaner to start. The valve would turn but since the suction cleaner is not attached, there would be no water flowing to the intelliflo. Maybe it would be best to just get a robotic cleaner instead as I'm not that happy with the suction cleaner anyways.
Ron
Ron
I'm not sure I'm seeing how the actuator would work. I would assume that if your cleaner isn't attached that there is still an outlet/inlet in the pool where the water could flow into, assuming that the cleaner hose attaches to an outlet/inlet that is below the water line. That's what it is like in my own pool. Anyway, I'm just glad my original pool configuration had a dedicated line for the cleaner. That way, I could do whatever I wanted -- make it a suction line or a pressure line and valve to it whatever way I wanted. I've been very happy with the low-flow pressure cleaner "The Pool Cleaner" even though it's a lot less sophisticated than the Letro Legend I had before, but my pool cleanup situation is rather easy as I have a pool safety cover on it when not in use so it doesn't get very dirty (still gets a decent amount of cedar needles and blown-in dirt every now and then and the cleaner seems to handle it well).
There is a dedicated line below the water line. The suction line has one of those spring shut doors on it so when the cleaner is removed, the door closes. I'm sure that it would be something that is easily fixed. Thanks for your advice.
Ron
Ron
I too have notice the manual op quirk, and mine seems to work intermittently with respect to resetting to auto. There are other quirks as well that I find unacceptable for the price all of this cost me. I've noticed my pump seems to cut off early as though it is calculating properly a new filter run time when a higher flow feature has run. BUT, it hasn't consistently done this. When I do notice it, I immediately enable the pump display and there I find it saying power save enabled. Pentair tells me only the pump has this capability, not the intellitouch. I laughed at that. It seems that the pump software and the intellitouch take turns having priority on the the system! I'm amazed that Pentair and pool companies are selling this equipment without these issues resolved. I would expect that future software upgrades will be provided free of charge while my system is under warranty.
On a different note, I cleaned my filter for the first time. I'm amazed at how dirty it was. I now run 28 gpm, 1170 rpm, 165 watts and about 1 psi. Cleaner mode is 15 gpm, 2350 rpm, 650 watts and 18 psi. However, this is with the relief valve open some.
On a different note, I cleaned my filter for the first time. I'm amazed at how dirty it was. I now run 28 gpm, 1170 rpm, 165 watts and about 1 psi. Cleaner mode is 15 gpm, 2350 rpm, 650 watts and 18 psi. However, this is with the relief valve open some.
After reading about how much more efficient other peoples pool are with this pump, I did some researching and saw that the pipe size coming out of the pool of the 3 returns are 3/4". I know the pipe that leaves the equipment area is 2". Since I bought a new robot cleaner, I could have the suction line which is a 2" line replumbed and changed into a return line. By adding a 3 way valve, it could become a suction or return line. Looking at my equipment pad, it doesn't look difficult to do. I'm just wondering if this sounds resonable.
That's a great question for Mark (mas985) and I hope he's reading this! I don't know enough about return fittings to know if the 3/4" is normal or not. I had thought that the piping near each return was 1.5" until they came together at a 2" pipe to the equipment pad, but I could be wrong about that -- I'm just going off my recollection (not measurement) when they built our pool. My guess is that the problem isn't your narrower returns, but trying to have most of the flow (either suction or return) going through a cleaner -- it will be inefficient as mine is when the cleaner is running. So the trick is to not run the cleaner all the time and to switch between such a dedicated mode and normal mode. Anyway, Mark should be able to help you more with the plumbing (not my area of expertise).
- May 3, 2007
- 16,828
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
RonI said:
Sorry I didn't see this sooner but I am having less time these days to read threads.
3/4" pipe is pretty small for the returns even if they are short. What size are the eyeballs?
I have 2" pipe from the pad feeding 1 1/2" short pipe to the return with 1" eyeballs.
What is your PSI reading for a given RPM without the cleaner and with the cleaner?
I have a suction cleaner too and also have to adjust the flow more towards the cleaner when on. I have an actuator on the valve but I do not automate for the obvious reasons that sometimes the cleaner may not be connected. So when I put the cleaner in the pool, I turn the valve via the controller. This has worked well for me in the past.
By turning the valve to pull more water from the cleaner, this does add more head loss and thus will reduce flow somewhat. Since I went with the Poolcleaner suction version, the cleaner does not need much flow to work so I am not penalized that much with a flow rate reduction.
Even with my current pool cleaner working properly, my next cleaner will probably be a robotic. That way I can run it overnight without my pool pump running.
I don't have any eyeballs. The 3/4" pipe is just cut flush with the pool surface. I just checked my psi. With the solar on, the pump is doing 45gpm at 3130rpm using around 1655 watts. This is with my valve adjusted more toward the cleaner. When I turn the valve to the skimmer only, I read 3165 rpm at 1711 watts at 45gpm. The psi remains at 25psi but I know my filter is getting a little dirty. Not too bad though according to the gauge. Do you think that if I converted my suction pipe to a return pipe which is a 2" pipe to a 1.5" short pipe at the pool that it would make a big difference in my efficiency? I know it can't hurt and I would love to cut the energy efficiency during normal filtration in half if possible. I don't know if any way to test this though without actually doing the work.
It depends on how long the 3/4" pipes are. If the pipes are 40 feet long I estimate you would reduce total dynamic head by 22, which is a little less that 10 PSI, so a savings of 2/5 of the pressure side resistance and less than that of the total system resistance. Shorter pipes would save less, longer pipes would save more. I am not sure how to calculate the energy savings however.