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Thread: Liner suddenly floating

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    Liner suddenly floating

    We are in the process of closing our pool. We've dropped the level as we have every year and I notice the the liner is now floating in several places. My husband is in the pool trying yet again to install the anti-entrapment drain that the manufacturer said would fit perfectly (they lied) and he says the bottom is spongy, definately water behind it.
    The thing is we are in drought conditions so I don't think it is a high water table. I've been concerned we had a bit of a leak from some broken steps but we had repaired that and it seems to be holding ok so I'm just not sure where the water came from.
    Or....what I should be doing about it.

    Because we are closing now do I just leave it till next spring or would it be better to do something now. And if so...what?

    The liner was replaced 2 years ago so it's relatively new. The only other issue we have had were some wrinkles to which the pool place said was A...the water was too warm.....or B....the water was too cold, depended on what day you asked them and they refused to do anything about. They also were supposed to install the anti-entrapment device but forgot to bring it when they installed the liner, promised to do it in the spring. Well they lied there too. My point being, I don't think they would be much help to me.

    Anyway any suggestions would be appreciated.
    Thanks
    Deena
    http://www.lindbrookstargazer.ca
    100,000 liter IG vinyl liner
    Rolachem Chlorine & Muratic acid Auto feeders/Pool Perfect Auto feeder
    Pentair 30" filter (Tagelus) Sand filter/Centruion switchless pump 1.5/.25 HP

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    Re: Liner suddenly floating

    Hi, Deena,

    Obviously, there is water behind the liner. If it's not coming from high ground water, then it's coming from a leak....either in the liner or somewhere in the plumbing.

    Losing enough water to float the liner should be findable but I don't know how to tell you where to begin except for the usual spots....any penetrations in the liner, etc.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Liner suddenly floating

    Do you think it would have been possible to get that much water behind the liner replacing a skimmer panel/cover. I know some definately went under but I wasn't sure how much. We also replaced the main drain cover but I don't think any water can get under the liner when you do that, can it?
    When they installed the liner they had put it into the winter cover bead just above the skimmer. We had left it but needed to replace the actual skimmer panel this year so we moved the liner down where it should be so maybe we did this ourselves.??
    Maybe we should have left well enough alone?
    The crack in the step where I thought we might be getting a small amount of water will be repaired again this fall and will hopefully hold better now that we can do it while it is dry.
    So do I do something about it this year or wait till spring to work on it?
    Thanks for your help

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Hi, Deena,

    Obviously, there is water behind the liner. If it's not coming from high ground water, then it's coming from a leak....either in the liner or somewhere in the plumbing.

    Losing enough water to float the liner should be findable but I don't know how to tell you where to begin except for the usual spots....any penetrations in the liner, etc.
    Deena
    http://www.lindbrookstargazer.ca
    100,000 liter IG vinyl liner
    Rolachem Chlorine & Muratic acid Auto feeders/Pool Perfect Auto feeder
    Pentair 30" filter (Tagelus) Sand filter/Centruion switchless pump 1.5/.25 HP

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    Re: Liner suddenly floating

    Hi Deena, this is a strange one

    You're in drought conditions, so that rules out ground water. A leak from the pool shouldn't have enough force to move the liner around (the pressure is equal). Have you had any downpours lately? What is the floor, under the liner, made of and do you have ledge or 'hardpan' soil?

    The water under the liner is certainly not draining very quickly! I'm trying to help you figure out the source of the water. You can do the standard vessel test with a bucket test, to keep evaporation out of the equation, just to be sure the liner isn't leaking before you close the pool. As long as the liner isn't leaking, I think you would be fine to close the pool, when the water finally subsides, it will probably leave behind wrinkles - but you're already used to wrinkles :P

    BTW - I strongly doubt you caused this by changing the skimmer faceplate - however, were you meticulous in matching up the screw holes in the liner with the new faceplate?

    I'll await your response and then be back with any more thoughts i have on this.
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Liner suddenly floating

    Well I went and looked at it agian tonight and it does appear that it may not be floating as much.
    I'm hoping that is a positive sign.
    I will do the bucket test tomorrow.

    We were pretty careful when we changed out the faceplate but we did not replace gaskets. Should we do that before we fill it next spring? They looked alright but I know very little about gasket life.
    Deena
    http://www.lindbrookstargazer.ca
    100,000 liter IG vinyl liner
    Rolachem Chlorine & Muratic acid Auto feeders/Pool Perfect Auto feeder
    Pentair 30" filter (Tagelus) Sand filter/Centruion switchless pump 1.5/.25 HP

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    Re: Liner suddenly floating

    If it's underground water from a high water table and you can't do anything about it I would recommend using an Aquador on the skimmer so lowering the water level isn't required. We typically blow out our returns underwater but you might want to use Anderson's Duck plug check valve thingy for blowing out your returns. With both of those in place you don't need to lower your water level for the winter; the only problem I might see is if you have a safety cover because they recommend dropping the water level 12-18 inches below the coping to allow for proper support from the frozen pool water
    -Kevin
    X-Pert Pool Service
    x-pertpool.com
    X-Pert Pool on Facebook and @XPertPoolServic on Twitter
    22,000 gal / 16' x 32' / Vinyl / Hayward s244t /Pentair SuperFlo 1 hp

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    Re: Liner suddenly floating

    We have some seriously cold weather in Canada I'm not sure I'd be comfortable using anything like that.
    Has anyone else used them? Any issues.?
    We do have a winter cover as well so do need to drop the level for that.
    We've already dropped the level of the pool already anyways, that is when the liner started floating. And I'm fairly certain it is not underground water as we are in drought conditions.


    Quote Originally Posted by X-PertPool
    If it's underground water from a high water table and you can't do anything about it I would recommend using an Aquador on the skimmer so lowering the water level isn't required. We typically blow out our returns underwater but you might want to use Anderson's Duck plug check valve thingy for blowing out your returns. With both of those in place you don't need to lower your water level for the winter; the only problem I might see is if you have a safety cover because they recommend dropping the water level 12-18 inches below the coping to allow for proper support from the frozen pool water
    Deena
    http://www.lindbrookstargazer.ca
    100,000 liter IG vinyl liner
    Rolachem Chlorine & Muratic acid Auto feeders/Pool Perfect Auto feeder
    Pentair 30" filter (Tagelus) Sand filter/Centruion switchless pump 1.5/.25 HP

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    Re: Liner suddenly floating

    Did you drop the water out of the pool into the pool surrounds? I'm still trying to figure out if you have drainage issues.

    As I said, this is a strange happenstance and I'd really like to get it figured out so that it doesn't happen again
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Liner suddenly floating

    How often has your liner floated in the past? My imprssion is never...is that right? If your liner hasn't floated before and you are in a drought, you have a leak.

    A leak that's large enough to float the liner is pretty significant.....I'd find it.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Liner suddenly floating

    Ok, I think you may have hit on something here. Although we did not drain the pool really close to the actual pool it may have been too close. We did get very heavy use just before we closed as well with a LOT of splash, that combined with pumping it down may have created a high water table right around the pool.
    I looked at it again today and the liner is no longer floating, we still have some areas you can tell there is water under it but nothing as serious as before.
    I also did the bucket/water level test and there was no significant drop. Can I assume then that there is not a leak in the liner?

    Quote Originally Posted by waste
    Did you drop the water out of the pool into the pool surrounds? I'm still trying to figure out if you have drainage issues.

    As I said, this is a strange happenstance and I'd really like to get it figured out so that it doesn't happen again
    Deena
    http://www.lindbrookstargazer.ca
    100,000 liter IG vinyl liner
    Rolachem Chlorine & Muratic acid Auto feeders/Pool Perfect Auto feeder
    Pentair 30" filter (Tagelus) Sand filter/Centruion switchless pump 1.5/.25 HP

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    Re: Liner suddenly floating

    I use the aquadors quite often, but more commonly on above grounds. We only use the aquadors on in grounds when there is floating issues. They are easy to install and snap on like a tupperwear lid. I have never used the duck plug personally but they look pretty good
    -Kevin
    X-Pert Pool Service
    x-pertpool.com
    X-Pert Pool on Facebook and @XPertPoolServic on Twitter
    22,000 gal / 16' x 32' / Vinyl / Hayward s244t /Pentair SuperFlo 1 hp

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    Re: Liner suddenly floating

    If you did the bucket test and it turned up good, this is probably a temporary and 1 time issue

    I'd close the pool and see if a problem arises in the spring, hopefully by then the drought will hqave abated and you can just enjoy the pool next summer

    Have a great winter, feel free to drop by here from time to time - there are some of us who log on all year and would love to say HI to you, if you don't - we'll see you next spring
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Liner suddenly floating

    Thanks....for your help and everyone elses. I always get excellent help here and I do appreciate it a lot.
    I always check in the winter just to read posts, you just never know what will be relavent in the future.
    Always tons of good information here.

    Deena
    Quote Originally Posted by waste
    If you did the bucket test and it turned up good, this is probably a temporary and 1 time issue

    I'd close the pool and see if a problem arises in the spring, hopefully by then the drought will hqave abated and you can just enjoy the pool next summer

    Have a great winter, feel free to drop by here from time to time - there are some of us who log on all year and would love to say HI to you, if you don't - we'll see you next spring
    Deena
    http://www.lindbrookstargazer.ca
    100,000 liter IG vinyl liner
    Rolachem Chlorine & Muratic acid Auto feeders/Pool Perfect Auto feeder
    Pentair 30" filter (Tagelus) Sand filter/Centruion switchless pump 1.5/.25 HP

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