Pool Still Green After Opening

[SummerTimeGirl]

Hey all! So having a pool is still pretty new to us. This is only our third year. Anyway, we just had the pool opened on Friday. We have a 15,000 gallon in-ground, vinyl pool. Goes from 3 feet deep to 5.5/6 feet deep. So, usually when the pool is opened they toss in a bottle of algaecide and shock it. We then let the filter run 24 hours and usually by the next day it's blue/sorta clear. Meaning, you can see the bottom fine and the debris that needs cleaning up. At that point I just vacuum and then readjust the chemicals and by the next day it's usually perfect.

Well it's now Sunday and the pool is STILL green. Since it wasn't cleared up on Saturday morning, we tossed in another bottle of algaecide and more shock. So by now it's been quadruple shocked, total, and had 2 bottle of algaecide. Wake this am and it's still green!! Doesn't even look lighter! We even took the filter cartridges out yesterday and cleaned them too. Not sure what to do now. When I tested the water the ph was fine and so was the chlorine level. I also vacuumed some yesterday but was afraid to do much because I can't see the bottom and don't want to be scrapping the bottom or have the dang hose come loose from the vacuum head like it has in the past and I then I won't be able to tell or see that either.

Also should mention that last year I was having a time keeping the pool clean. Just seemed like algae wanted to constantly bloom and I was having to always keep at it several times a week which is not typical for us. The first two years were worry free with the pool but last year was anything but. Not sure what changed cause we've been doing the same things and using the same chemicals. Oh and last year we also had issue with the pool holding chlorine. I could just get done triple shocking it and it would barely read chlorine. Or it would but hours later be gone or waaaay down. We kept taking samples to a local pool store and they kept telling us everything was fine. They also tested for metals and nope, none. So, again, we're at a loss.

Any suggestions on what we can do to get this pool cleared up? Should I try vacuuming again anyway? Also haven't really brushed the sides either cause again, I can't see and am afraid of ripping the liner or something. Weird because the previous years I never had to brush or vacuum the pool until the water was clear. I don't want to just keep tossing money and chemicals at it if it's not working. Thanks!!

 

[woodyp]

I hope by now you realize that the algaecide is not a magic bullet. We don't recommend it's use. And obviously your local pool store is WRONG that everything is fine. First thing you need is an ACCURATE test kit. The tf-100 at TFTestkits.net is the ticket. If you're gonna throw money at a pool, that's the best investment you can make up front. What kind of shock have you been using and how do you normally chlorinate the pool? Take a deep breath, cause you're probably in for a couple of 1/3 drain and water replacements. Your issue is most likely high CYA. Do you have any current testing#'s even from the pool store we can look at? Also, please add a signature line to your profile listing all your pool particulars and equipment. Read Pool School and especially the SLAM procedure until your test kit arrives. WE CAN and WILL help you fix your pool and hopefully never get in that condition again.

 

[SummerTimeGirl]

So when the pool company opened our pool on Friday, they added 3 bags of Sunguard Sunburst Multishock. They left us 3 bags more and we also had 3 additional bags from last year when they closed us so when they left, I tossed those 6 in. Just knowing that in previous years it took a triple shock to clear up. Then yesterday we added 4 more bags of HTH brand shock. As for chlorine, we use 3 inch pucks from Pool Essentials (or whomever) because we have an auto feeder.

If I remember correctly, our CYA level was either 53 or 73 last year but can't find the old paperwork. But, we're getting ready now to head out to the pool store in order to have our water tested and I will post the results when I get back.

I added a signature. Not sure why it's not showing.

 

[kimkats]

I want to share I thread with you:

Before and After

This person got a good test kit like the one Woody above you suggested. They then follow this way for clearing a pool:

Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

This is a process that may take a couple of weeks. It depends an how well you get and keep the FC up while you are clearing the algae.

If you keep going to the pool store your pool will remain a problem. The pool store will be able to make it's next power bill on your dime

If you get a good test kit your pool will get cleared up and STAY that way if you follow the recommendations here at TFP and it will not cost you a dime other than the cost of the test kit. OH and buying chlorine to clean the green monster algae out.

Kim

 

[RobertScalchi]

You can totally save that pool. I've had 6 seasons as a pool owner, where 3 have been opened crystal clear, and 3 have been opened completely black, or green due to my own neglect. My pool is currently clear green as of today. What I have learned from here over the years and my own experiences is this. SLAM in the ppm range of 15 to 20 Chlorine. /FC. Get the Concentrated 8% bleach or 10% pool chlorine from Wal-Mart. You want your TA to be between 60 and 120. (Baking Soda/Sodium Carbonate) PH between 7.2 and 7.8 (Borax) Target you're CYA between 50 and 60. Now here is the big trick for removing finely suspended particles like green algae from your pool. Brush everything even blindly, floor, walls etc, depending on what type of filtration system you have. Sand is 40 micron, Cartridge is 20 micron, and DE is 10 micron. Get a Return elbow and a Duda Diesel Polyester Filter Bag for 10 to 5 micron off eBay for $5. Also get a pack of skimmer socks and put them on your skimmer basket. The technique you want to implement is triple filtration by utilizing skimmer sock, filtration system, and duds diesel 5 micron bag. First start filtering the top of the water of large and medium size particles and debris with skimmer basket, sock and pump first for about 24hrs which you probably have already done, clean skimmer socks several times if necessary. Then vaccum floor of all large debris and particles. Clean skimmer socks again. At this point now you have most of the major debris out of the pool, but are left with the finely suspended green particles of algae. Make sure to maintain SLAM levels of 15 ppm to 20 ppm FC. You have two options at this point. You can either flocculant the water and let run for 3 hours to circulate, turn pump off, then let all fine debris settle to bottom floor for 24 hours, then vaccum to waste. Or as an alternative to not losing water, hook up 45 degree elbow to return jet with duda diesel bag attached, and including the skimmer sock. Depending on the power of your pump you may have to throttle back your inlet and return valve to filter a little more slowly. If you are 1hp or under pump, don't worry about throttling. That duda diesel bag at 5 micron will filter out all the green algae and finely suspended particles in about 24 to 72 hrs. You will probably have to turn the diesel bag inside out and power wash it out and clean the bag more frequently in the first 24hrs. At 5 micron you are polishing the water clear. Clairifiers are a waste at this point because you are mechanically polishing the water at 5 micron. Hope this helps. You should be clear within 72 hrs. I've spun my wheels with a green pool before for a month before attempting this. If you are having difficulty maintaining FC CCH make sure you're CYA is in the middle range of 50 to 60 to render the Chlorine effective. Once clear, and chlorine levels are maintained between 4 ppm and 10 ppm, you should never need algecide unless chlorine drops below those levels, or you have heavy debris, dust, organic or bather loads. Algecide also is a preventer of algae because if the copper sulfide in it in which you are adding metals to your water. A small amount of copper is acceptable. But Algecide serves no purpose once the pool is green, and fine particles of algae are suspended in it. You either have a flocculant the algae out and vacuuming to waste or you have to filter it through the Duda diesel bag at 5 micron.

 

[HiddenRiver]

Be careful to follow the TFP instructions closely. I think you have too much CYA (from those bags of “shock”) and this is making your chlorine ineffective. Don’t put anything else in now, except maybe pure chlorine (plain, unscented bleach) until you get the test kit and understand fully what the chemistry problem is. Otherwise you will spend lots of money and will continue with GREEN. Post your results in this thread—

Total Chlorine (TC)
Combined Chlorine (CC)
pH
Total Alkalinity (TA)
Calcium Hardness (CH)
And last but not least, CYA

Good luck!!

 

[SummerTimeGirl]

Ok, so hubby wanted to take a sample in anyway and these are the results:

Free Chlorine - 0.68
Total Chlorine - 1.12
Combined Chlorine - 0.44
pH - 7.3
Hardness - 169 ppm
Alkalinity - 42 ppm
CYA - 46 ppm
Copper - 0.6 ppm
Iron - 0.2 ppm
Phosphate - 305 ppb

So they pretty much said our Hardness and Alkalinity were low. They did mention that the metals were a little up and overall suggested we add 13 lbs Alkalinity Increaser then do the Back to Blue system which involves adding bottle 1 and letting it run through the system for an hour, then adding bottle 2 then letting that run for an hour, then shutting off the pool for 24 to 48 hours. He said that it has a flocking agent and will kill everything and bring it down to the bottom at which time I can then vacuum it all out. He also said it will bring the metal levels down. The filters of course will need to be cleaned a few times too. Anyway, hubby didn't want to wait for a test kit and wanted to start something going now so we bought the Alkalinity Increaser and Back 2 Blue system. I guess for now we'll see how they do and then go from there since it's already bought.

I believe he also said we should use a Cal-Hypo shock and NOT Di-Chlor? Is that right?

Anyway, thanks for all the input. In the meantime we WILL be reading over those other threads as suggested. Thanks again everyone for the input!!!

 

[RobertScalchi]

Metals are up specifically because you added Algecide which is copper phosphate or sulfide. Alkalinity increased is nothing more than expensive baking soda or sodium carbonate. Use the TFP pool calculator to determine how many oz. of baking soda you need to get to 90 ppm alkalinity. You want in between 60 to 120 ppm range alkalinity. CYA looks good. Calcium hardness you want between 250 and 500 ppm. PH looks ok, is on the lower end. Tweak to 7.4 - 7.5 max 7.8 PH. Use the pool calculator again to determine the amount of borax in ounces you should add by the size of your pool by gallons. Your free chlorine is extremely low you should be maintaining 15 to 20 ppm during the SLAM process. I understand you do not have the Taylor K 2006 test kit yet. So I am assuming from experience you are probably unable to measure above 10 ppm FC with the cheaper HTH OTO chlorine/ 6 way tester kit. If that's the case and all you have to work with, just make sure the OTO color after 5 drops is dark golden off the chart scale of the tester. USE LIQUID CHLORINE 8% or 10 % BLEACH SODIUM HYPOCHLORITE ONLY!!! Shocking is a process NOT A PRODUCT. Shocking is maintaining 15 to 20 ppm of FC. Also known here as SLAMing. From my own experiences once you get to clear green like a turquoise color. That's probably as clear as you're going to get because the algae is finally suspended in the water. You are probably going to have to flock it and Vac to waste at that point. I highly recommend triple filtrating by using a skimmer sock whatever filtration system you have whether it be sand cartridge or diatomaceous earth and also use in a Duda diesel bag on the return jet. Triple filtering water will get you 75 to 80% of the way there and then from there you just probably just want to flock it. What the OCLT test is Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. If all chemistry is balanced, PH 7.4 FC 15 to 20 ppm in SLAM or SHOCK mode you should only lose 1-2 ppm of FC in 24 hrs. Hope this helps.

 

[SummerTimeGirl]

Thanks Robert. But as I said, my husband already went ahead and got the Alkalinity Increaser and also the Back To Blue and they've already been added and I'm not adding anything further until that is all done so we'll see. For the future however, I'd like to do things the way they are mentioned on this forum and avoid all those chemicals. In fact, I came across this forum last year and was already trying to switch over to bleach instead of the tablets.

So, given our numbers, do you have any idea why the pool would have stayed green after all that initial shock? Do you think it is most likely just the vegetation at the bottom of the pol that we haven't been able to get out yet? I'm strongly leaning towards this being the case and I doubt the green will truly go away until I vacuum on Wednesday morning.

 

[edwin2014]

First step is getting a good test kit as mentioned before.

 

[SummerTimeGirl]

Well yeah, that's obvious. But since I already had numbers from yesterday, just figured someone could chime in with why, given the actual numbers from yesterday, the pool would have stayed green after all the shock and algaecide I mentioned in my first post. Just wanted to see if anyone thought my issue is more vegetation related or is something off with those numbers that would cause it to stay green. That's all.

 

[Demegrad9]

Just a quick note on something said earlier. You were recommended twice here to increase calcium hardness, since you have a vinyl lined pool this would be totally optional.

On your more recent question on why it's still green even after all that 'shock' ('shock' isn't a product; it's a process) and algaecide. For one, virtually all algaecides on the market are for preventing algae, not killing a strong already existing population. But chlorine is a very effective algaecide, so why it's that working??? Well because you're in a fight against an organism that can relatively quickly reproduce and take over. So you throw in some powered chlorine product and hope that helps but let's say you only kill half or a third; well a day later the algae is right back to where it was before and you're right back where you started. Your extremely low chlorine levels from your latest test are a direct indicator of this, if you had an appropriate amount of chlorine in there to start really killing algae, you need to keep the FC at about 20ppm until the pool is clear and you have zero CC.

That's the importance of following the SLAM procedure, it doesn't assume a starting population. It just outlines the method for consistently winning the fight until you've won. There's no telling exactly how much liquid chlorine it'll take because we don't know how much algae has taken over in your pool. Usually this process doesn't take more than a week in total and you start to see results in a few days.

 

[Mr Bruce]

We don't trust pool store test results and neither should you. Without a good test kit you are flying blind.

But to answer your question, you got algae because there isn't sufficient chlorine to kill it. You don't know how much chlorine you need because pool store tests never get CYA right.

You would do yourself a big favor by staying out of the pool store and getting a good test kit and taking over your own pool. They are ripping you off. Alkalinity Increaser? That's baking soda they sold you at a likely marked up price. So on and so on ...

 

[SummerTimeGirl]

Ok. I understand what you're saying. BUT, I have seen several people on here tell others to go get their water tested at a pool store. So, it's kind of confusing getting mixed signals here. Some say go get your water tested, others say no.

Anyway, here's another question for you.......since this is all new to us, our problem is mostly figuring out how much of what to add when something is high/low/off. For instance, if something is 7.5 and it should be 6.8 I can easily find out on the internet what product I would need to add in order to bring that down. But where I start having issue is knowing HOW much of said product to use in order to bring that number up or down. Is there any info floating around that will tell me how to figure this out? Do these kits you're suggesting come with anything that tells you how to do that/do the math? I mean, it's one thing to test a water sample and get a reading, but how do I know what and how much of "what" to add in order to bring the numbers to acceptable levels? Sorry if I sound stupid but we've never had to take care of a pool before and the last 3 years we were just doing it the way the previous owners suggested.

I guess my main worry is forking out all that money for a good test kit then not really knowing how to use it correctly. Or, figuring out how to test the water but then not knowing what to do with the results. I don't want to have to keep coming on here to bug people. If something needs to be raised 1.3 ppm, I'd like to be able to understand and figure out how to do that myself and right now, if I'm being honest, I don't. Wish I could just test the water and it could say add "x" amount of "x" product! LOL

 

[mitchellb]

Your pool is still green because you have no chlorine. Your free chlorine is less than 1. Any little bit of chlorine you have been adding to your pool has been consumed by your algae.

You've asked for advice and were given good suggestions. You ignored the advice and are now wondering what to do?

 

[Mr Bruce]

PoolMath

The left side is the "now" column, the right side is the target.

I always find it interesting and curious (and I promise I'm not "beating you up") that folks are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on mystery pool store potions but balk at the price of a test kit. I rarely spend more than $200-$300/year on chemicals and that includes a test kit refill.

 

[tim5055]

Now is the time to make a decision, keep following the pool store and dropping lots of money there or follow our methods.

As the articles that have been linked point out, the pool industry refuses to recognize the connection between CYA/Stabilizer and the ability of chlorine to do it's thing sanitizing the water. others here can give you the scientific details if you want, but lets just say CYA locks the ability of chlorine to sanitize. The more CYA you have the more chlorine you need to keep in the pool to keep algae at bay. I took over my pool with a CYA of about 250 (CYA tests above 100 are just a guess, not very specific contrary to what the pool store says). With a CYA of 250 I had to keep my chlorine level at around 20 just to keep algae away.

It's your decision. Pool store or TFP. We don't have a magic bullet other than the best pool care chemical there is, chlorine.

Until you have your own test kit that we can rely on the numbers there is nothing we can do other than feel bad about your pool.

 

[jstephens24tx]

I have never seen a forum member tell someone to go to pool store and get results. But yes at the top of the page there is a pool math tab. Tells you how much to add. There is also an app available for your phone. I have an iphone and have it on there

edit..looks like I typed to slow and others responded

 

[Demegrad9]

Your attitude on wanting to know how to do this stuff yourself is Awesome! That's exactly the goal we're trying to achieve here.

So, trying to address a few things.
1. I don't think I've ever seen anyone here on TFP recommend getting water tested at a pool store, I'm sure your right and it's recommended by someone somewhere but that advice would have been quickly smashed by the actual moderators who actually know what they're talking about.
2. In addressing 'How much of chemical X to add", the perfect solution is 'Pool Math'. There's a big button for the link to that page at the top of this page. You type in your pool volume, current levels, and your desired levels and it gives you very specific instructions on how much of what to add.
3. I see a mineral ion purification system in your signature. If you've been wondering where the metals in your water are coming from, that's a big culprit. Copper and silver are also used frequently in algaecides and basically anything the 'blue' in the product name. Using any of this things will result in metals building up in your pool and eventually staining. In general don't use any of them, they're completely unnecessary if you maintain a FC level appropriate for you CYA level.

 

[SummerTimeGirl]

Ummm, I'm not ignoring. I literally made the post YESTERDAY and explained my situation. Already had plans to hit the pool store then as well and did so. One day/overnight was hardly any time to order a test kit, get it, test my water, then following the directions provided here and get results by today. So I'm not sure why you're saying I'm ignoring what you all are suggesting. I'm not! I simply haven't really had time to do anything!!!! Sorry to be a bother. This is exactly what I didn't want to happen, seeming like a burden. Isn't this why the forum exists? To help others? To have things explained? I can just find another forum if I have to. I mean on one hand you're saying don't trust the pool stores, but trust me (us). And I'm sure my regular pool store guys would say that about you too. See what I mean? I'm just trying to figure out the right thing to do and who is right. Sorry. I fell like you're not even given me a chance to get my stuff together.

You've asked for advice and were given good suggestions. You ignored the advice and are now wondering what to do?

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you! But I can easily see how and why people would. Especially people like me who are so new to this. I mean, we have to learn somewhere. Up until now we have just followed the advice of the previous owners and their pool company who they used for 13 years. Seemed legit and reputable.

And I'm not afraid to put the money out. What I am afraid of is putting the money out and NOT knowing what to do with the kit. I fear it will sit there and do nothing because I won't know how to use it. That's all.

PoolMath

The left side is the "now" column, the right side is the target.

I always find it interesting and curious (and I promise I'm not "beating you up") that folks are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on mystery pool store potions but balk at the price of a test kit. I rarely spend more than $200-$300/year on chemicals and that includes a test kit refill.