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Thread: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

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    Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    How do I switch over to the BBB method if I have been using Potassium Mono****. Do I have to wait a specific amount of time, or do I go by water testing Can I use both methods? I have purchased the recommended test kit TF-100. I have been using 2lbs of the mono weekly, pool is 20,000 inground vinyl liner. I cant wait to use the BBB method.
    thanks
    Bob
    IG 16'x32' 20,000 gal vinyl, Williams 1 HP pump, Hayward 325sq.ft cartridge filter, Blue Pearl Cleaner

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    unfortunately that stuff reads as CC's on the test. so I would start using bleach or liquid chlorine and keep my FC per the chart. pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock
    someone here will know how long it will take the mps to go away completely, but I'm not sure. once it does, you can test for cc's.
    if you feel like sharing, what are your numbers?
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    Thanks for the quick reply, I just receicved the test kit today. Have not had a chance to do any testing yet. I will post some numbers shortly. Thanks again!!
    IG 16'x32' 20,000 gal vinyl, Williams 1 HP pump, Hayward 325sq.ft cartridge filter, Blue Pearl Cleaner

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    It usually doesn't take very long for MPS to dissipate, perhaps a few days at the most. Just start using chlorine and allow the MPS to go away.

    As reebok mentioned, MPS will show up on the FAS-DPD test as CC, so when CC goes to zero the MPS is gone.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    Hi, Bob,

    Do you mind sharing the cost of the 2 weekly lbs of MPS? I have no clue.

    Are you switching because of cost or for another reason?
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    It is about 3.00 per lb. in bulk online. TF-100 and BBB method were recommended by a co worker. I like the test kit based on what I have read thus far and I wanted to get accurate readings without going to the pool store having them do the testing and paying alot to keep the pool water in balance using their products.
    IG 16'x32' 20,000 gal vinyl, Williams 1 HP pump, Hayward 325sq.ft cartridge filter, Blue Pearl Cleaner

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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    Bob H, I use roughly the same amount of MPS in two weeks, Is it an American thing to get through so much chemical? possibly your geography or sunlight?

    I would be interested in knowing your phospate level, if I am allowed to ask that question.

    Was MPS all you were using to treat your pool?

    When you add chlorine you will have one clean pool the combination of chlorines sanitisation and the extra oxidising power of MPS will really clean it and your filter.

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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    I use both methods - bleach for sanitation, and MPS for shocking/oxidation. I add a couple of pounds of MPS whenever the water loses some of its sparkle - generally weekly in prime season, and bi-weekly in the shoulder season (or whenever I want to show off my sparkling water!). I ignore any CC readings in the DPD test, knowing that the MPS will burn off all the CC.

    Advantages: no elevated chlorine levels means no swimmer down-time, and no damage to solar blanket from elevated CL means I can put in on immediately after shocking, lowering my shoulder season heating bills. I shock with bleach only when I need extra sanitization (e.g. possible fecal incident). I use about 30 lbs of MPS per season -- not a major expense for the advantages it offers to me.
    18X36' 25000 gal Jacuzzi vinyl Inground Pool (1985) with resin sidewalls, newer Jacuzzi 1 hp two-speed pump and sand filter. Raypak propane heater, Rainbow 320 chlorinator (mostly use bleach).
    Softtub 220 portable hot tub.

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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    Maybe I'm missing something.... you use around 30 lbs of MPS in a pool season?

    The beauty of BBB is routine shocking isn't necessary, so I'm not sure why you would need to use the MPS?

    If your water loses its sparkle, you should be able to pinpoint why and correct it rather than a band-aid like MPS, KWIM? For instance, increasing pump run time, or perhaps your FC levels aren't where they should be....a few things to consider.

    I rarely, if ever have to shock. My water sparkles 24/7 - the only times in 3 summers since joining TFP that I have HAD to shock is to go on 3 extended vacations (9-10-11 days) and for winterizing. That's it, I've shocked MAYBE 5 times in 3 summers...

    I use to spend hundreds of dollars before TFP. Now I spend about $12 a month on chlorine, it's the ONLY thing my pool has needed in 3 years (aside from bumping up the CYA in May).

    Anyway, just thought I'd mention that perhaps you should consider why your water tends to lose it's sparkle. Following BBB methods you shouldn't have to use MPS or shock your pool, especially routinely.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    Maybe I'm missing something.... you use around 30 lbs of MPS in a pool season?

    The beauty of BBB is routine shocking isn't necessary, so I'm not sure why you would need to use the MPS?

    If your water loses its sparkle, you should be able to pinpoint why and correct it rather than a band-aid like MPS, KWIM? For instance, increasing pump run time, or perhaps your FC levels aren't where they should be....a few things to consider.
    Maybe I'm just too fussy. The water always shines, but the sparkle improves with MPS shocking.
    The pool is surrounded by trees, and there is a lot of rain here (always pumping water out, never adding), so I probably have a higher than normal organic load. I top the bleach up to 7 ppm each evening, and keep the CYA on the low side at 30 (perhaps I could up it a little). Lowest the CL ever drops to is 3 on a sunny day with high bather load. Never see any algae. Don't use algaecide. Pump runs about 11 hours a day on low, plus an hour on high when adding bleach. Our electric rates are very high here, so upping the pump run time may not be cost effective.
    For me, adding a couple of scoops of MPS every week or two is a small price to pay for perfect water.
    18X36' 25000 gal Jacuzzi vinyl Inground Pool (1985) with resin sidewalls, newer Jacuzzi 1 hp two-speed pump and sand filter. Raypak propane heater, Rainbow 320 chlorinator (mostly use bleach).
    Softtub 220 portable hot tub.

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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    You said that your minimum FC was 3 ppm. What is your CYA level? If it's higher than 40 ppm, then your FC minimum is too low and can be part of the cause for a slower oxidation of organics. Though use of MPS or an enzyme is perfectly reasonable (though extra cost, obviously) if one wants additional oxidation or acceleration of oxidation due to higher organic load, if the reason for the slight lack of clarity is too low an FC/CYA ratio, then one can just maintain a somewhat higher ratio to avoid the use of additional products. Also, the use of 50 ppm Borates can help by inhibiting nascent algae growth if that is the source of the temporarily slightly dull water.

    For my pool (photo shot on a windy day) I am very happy with the clarity and though it was very good prior to my use of 50 ppm Borates, it does seem to be even more consistently sparkly after I started to use the Borates. On the other hand, I have a pool cover so don't get a lot of organic load except for cedar needles and suntan lotion as the pool is used every day for 1-2 hours.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    Ok folks I did my testing with the TF-100 and this is what I came up with:
    FC=1ppm
    CC= .5ppm
    TC=1.5
    pH=7.2
    T/A=80
    CH=180
    CYA=60
    Temp =82
    I live in central NJ by the shore, pool gets alot of direct sunlight. Should I totally stop using the MPS and just stick with the BBB additives? I love this test kit!!!
    IG 16'x32' 20,000 gal vinyl, Williams 1 HP pump, Hayward 325sq.ft cartridge filter, Blue Pearl Cleaner

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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    On this forum we basically all use BBB so it will be hard to help you if you use a different system. We (at least mostly) don't have the right experience.

    Your numbers all look fine for a vinyl pool except the chlorine is low. (It would be nice if you put your pool specs in your signature though.)
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    I recommend switching to BBB. It should be a bit less expensive, about the same amount of work, and if done well the water will sparkle more.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    Should I totally stop using the MPS and just stick with the BBB additives?
    One of the tenants of BBB is simplicity. The fewer things you put in your water, the easier it is (generally) to manage them.

    MPS certainly causes you no harm but, agreeing with Jason and Paul, there is simply no requirement for it in a well managed chlorine-only pool.

    derekm seems to have found a comfort level and maintenance routine that involves the use of MPS. His method is absolutely fine and there is no doubt in my mind his water is crystal clear. It works well for him and, like they say, "if it ain't broke....".

    derek practices BBB in that he tests his water very accurately and knows what to do with the test results.

    For the majority here on the forum, ease and simplicity are key and we are able to maintain very clear pools with chlorine only.

    derekm, I am rereading this and hope it does not come across as any form of criticism. I think how you manage your pool chemistry is excellent......I'm not sure the verbage above clarified that.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach and Potassium monopersulfate

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob H
    Ok folks I did my testing with the TF-100 and this is what I came up with:
    FC=1ppm
    CC= .5ppm
    TC=1.5
    pH=7.2
    T/A=80
    CH=180
    CYA=60
    Temp =82
    I live in central NJ by the shore, pool gets alot of direct sunlight. Should I totally stop using the MPS and just stick with the BBB additives? I love this test kit!!!
    I would. Your numbers look good, as stated your chlorine is just too low. IF you maintain the FC levels using bleach, according to the CYA chart, you should be good to go.

    Simply test each nite, add enough bleach to reach your "target" level, and that should keep you above the "min" for the next 24 hours. If it doesn't, increase your target by 1ppm, and see where that gets you.

    If you seem to be losing more than 2-4 ppm over the course of the day, perform an overnight FC loss test to see if something organic is consuming the chlorine too. A loss of more than 1ppm overnight indicates organics in the water.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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