Small Yard, Big Pool Dreams - New Build - Lakewood, California

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I would go one step further in the picking of tiles..............go through the boxes as soon as they get there. Pick out the really pretty ones........use those for the eye catching areas like when you first walk out the door and your eyes fall. Then look for the uglies. The ones you don't want any where near your pool! Fun and opens up neat conversations between everyone! If you do this before the tilers get there they will a lot happier about placing them where you want them.

Kim:kim: (control issues??? YEPPERS! LOL)
 
kimkats said:
go through the boxes as soon as they get there. Pick out the really pretty ones
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Ooh, +1, Kim! Let's see, the gunite will be in at that point, no coping or deck, right? But a flat surface of gunite to work with, all around the perimeter? Have a chat with the PB about the tile arranging scheme and see if you can "play" with the tile the day/night before the install. That way you can take your time, without the tile guys standing around waiting on you. Then they'll just show up the next day, and transfer your arrangement from horizontal to vertical! Everybody will like that, more fun for you, less work for them...

I still get my video though, non-negotiable!!
 
Dirk said:
That code/design snippet is an example of what I meant. It is dictating what you must have/do if you have a drain, it doesn't actually say that you have to have one. That might be handled by another piece of code, of course. Or not. And when I wrote "Some PBs swear by them" I was going easy. Some PBs insist on them, because that's what they know, and that's the kind of circulation system that they know how to build. So a PB might even claim "Oh, you have to have one, it's code." even if that's not actually true, either because he doesn't actually know, or because he just wants to put the issue to bed. Point is, if you think about it, and decide you don't want a drain, and the PB insists it must be there, you might have to be a little more, uh, proactive about it to get what you want. You might not want to pick that battle if he resists, that's up to you. But just remember, you have to live with it, he'll be long gone...

Sorry, probably didn't need to fire that up just yet. But a PB doing what he wants, instead of what the customer wants, happens a lot around here. See what the rep says first...
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Codes by nature are “inclusive”, meaning if a feature is not in the language there is no demand.

(I have never seen a current RC demand floor suction.)

Municipalities have an ability to impose additional demands, these are often successfully challenged on state level. - I didn’t say quickly or easily.

- only if a floor suction is present, the criteria in the code must be followed.
 
PoolguyinCT said:
Codes by nature are “inclusive”, meaning if a feature is not in the language there is no demand.

(I have never seen a current RC demand floor suction.)

Municipalities have an ability to impose additional demands, these are often successfully challenged on state level. - I didn’t say quickly or easily.

- only if a floor suction is present, the criteria in the code must be followed.
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I didn't get most of that, sorry.

Does that mean that you've never seen any "national" code that requires a drain in a pool? (I don't know what "RC" is.) So that's good for the OP if he doesn't want a drain, unless there is a local or state code, right? But unless the local code specifically states a drain is required, then a requirement for one is not implied just because there is code requirements for a drain if one is to be used.

Close?
 
Dirk said:
I didn't get most of that, sorry.

Does that mean that you've never seen any "national" code that requires a drain in a pool?

- yes, but this happens at state level not national.

I don't know what "RC" is.)

- RC = residential code, again these are state mechanisms.


So that's good for the OP if he doesn't want a drain, unless there is a local or state code, right?
- correct

But unless the local code specifically states a drain is required, then a requirement for one is not implied just because there is code requirements for a drain if one is to be used.

- correct

Close?
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- yes.

Let’s try this, substitute main drain for fire alarm.

A wacky example since the RC doesn’t call for a smoke detector/fire alarm on the pool deck, the builder doesn’t have to install a pool side smoke detector/fire alarm.

If he did install a poolside smoke detector/fire alarm, the electric code must be followed to install it.

Cool?
 
Got it, thanks. We're both saying the same thing, I think (except that it's state not federal, check). But the OP left us in suspense about drain or no drain, or what the PB or planning dept had to say about it...

I think you and I are on the same page about drains in general, yes?

I hope they don't have any, or that deep heating stuff either. Does that shallow of a pool need more than a few well-placed returns to cover heat and circulation? Anything more would just be an eyesore, toe-sore and a whole lot of PVC under their pool.

Do you know anything about the deep heating system (whatever it's called)?
 
In a sport pool I see the risk/reward is not there & don’t like wall of floor suction.



Most drains can be easily converted to deep heat,
Providing there is no hydrostatic valve to be nudged or opened by the return flow.
 
Hey Gang - Sorry I've been MIA - busy times! Dirk - your time-lapse of the tile process will be paid.

So here's what our pool looks like now:



Crazy how quickly our guys work once they get started! Thanks for all the input about the tiles - gonna put all that to use.

In other good news, my builder and his plumber found an excellent flush drain cover to use for the two main drains - very similar to the one you pointed out Kim! Here it is:



- - - Updated - - -

And to keep the info coming, here are the Pavers we decided on. Belgard Catalina Grana in Montecito Color - using all 6 Sizes in circled Large/Small pattern.

 

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Look what arrived today:



So here are the details:
- Pentair Intelliflo VSF Pump (11056)
- Pentair FNS Plus 48 Clean & Clear Plus 420 Quad D.E. 80
- Pentair Intellichlor IC40 (520545 LDCNTR 8SC IC40 EZTCH)
- Pentair Mastertemp Pool & Spa Heater (PUR 15 - 0805 - 400K BTU NG IID HD CU -NI LO NOX HEATER)
- 2 Pentair Intellibrite 5G Lights
- Pentair Easytouch Control System w/Wireless Remote
- Pentair Screenlogic Interface & Wireless Connection Kit
- PoolStyle Pool Vacuum Hose w/Swivel Cuff
- PoolStyle Solar Swimming Pool Heating Blanket (20x40 Rectangle)
- California Pools Custom Maintenance Kit:
--- Prem 18" Alum Back Brush-Nyln
--- Prem Aluminum Leaf Rake
--- Prem 5-Way Test Kit w/Case
--- Classic Analog Combo Therm
--- Prem HD Flex Vac w/MTL HNDL
--- LG Combo Pole/Hose Hanger
--- Sign Cal Pools "Gate Closed"
--- Sign Cal Pools "Saving A Life"
- 8 bags of 40LB Pool Salt

Any thoughts on the equipment? My spouse freaked out a little cause he started reading reviews on the Heater on Amazon and although it has 4/5 stars overall there are a good number of bad reviews. But from what I've seen with pool equipment, it seems that no matter what way you go - Pentair, Jandy, Hayward - there are always a good number of bad reviews about the equipment.
 
Any thoughts on the equipment?
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Others here are much better suited for equipment comments, but I've had good luck with my Pentair gear. I only see one red flag in that pile'o'goodies, the salt. There are threads here that describe PBs putting the salt in on day one, and that always gets a backlash of comments. There is a clear consensus here to wait 30 days or more before adding salt and firing up the SWG, backed up by at least one very well respected scientist/TFP-expert, that I believe knows more about plaster startup than most, and he is clearly adamant about it. Salt water and brand new curing plaster do not mix. The National Plasterers Council (NPC) and their startup card for plaster gets mixed reviews here, but they, too, are quite clear about the 30 days. Since it does absolutely no harm to run your pool as non-SWG indefinitely, if it were mine, I'd wait (and I did just that, six months!). Have a conversation with your PB about his intentions with the salt.

Tip'o'the'Day?
As you get closer to fill day, you'll get some great tips about how to put the water into your pool (I'll share 'em if no one else does.). Of all of them, this is perhaps one of the most important ones. Once you start the fill, DO NOT STOP IT FOR ANY REASON. Doing so can cause a ring around your whole pool which won't come out. Fill as fast as you can, in one continuous stretch.

Tip'o'the'Day-2?
Did I give this one to you already? I don't see a test kit in your signature. You should by now have bought one of the two TFP-recommend test kits. Don't wait if you haven't. The "5-Way" you just received has a purpose, and you'll be able to use it a bit, and it will be a good backup so it won't go to waste, but once you get into water testing and adjustment (starting on day one of the fill), you'll want to, and be expected to, give TFP proper test results, and for that you need a good kit. (Assuming that you'll want TFP involved for your startup.) This one or this one. But the real tip is to start using in NOW. Fill day is stressful, and your tasks will be fast and furious. Testing is imperative, and critical for a proper plaster startup, and you don't want to wait until that day to start learning your kit. Get it now. Use it now. Start with testing your fill water. You'll need that data anyway. Test for everything except CYA (that'll make sense later, just remember it). If you can borrow a neighbor's pool water, test that, too (they'll thank you, or curse you for finding out their Leslie's Pool Store Water is all messed up). Point is, you want some testing experience under your belt come day one. Please trust me on this, or forgive me if you've already got this covered.

Tip'o'the'Day-3a?
I keep trying to sell this one, with mixed results. Take it or leave it, but I believe in it and it has helped me immensely with balancing my pool. You've got an irregularly shaped pool, and it'll be tough to calculate its volume. And that number is at the heart of how you'll ascertain the proper amount of chemicals to add. There's a super-easy way to get a very accurate number, but you only get one shot at it. Interested? Right before they start your fill, find your city water meter and take a picture of it. As soon as the fill is complete, take a second picture of the meter. Subtract the difference between the meter readings, do a little simple math if the meter isn't in gallons (or I'll do it for you), and you'll have the exact number of gallons of water in your pool (well, within the 1% margin of error of the typical water meter, anyway). Here's a few extra tips to improve the accuracy of the number if you really want to dial it in. Use as little water in the house during the fill as possible. Turn off any irrigation. Take your showers before or after the fill if you can. Take a break from dishes and laundry, and/or go out and celebrate your new pool with a nice dinner, elsewhere. Count the toilet flushes and subtract that number x a gallon from the water meter math. But even if you ignore all that, you can use your house water normally, and just subtract a hundred gallons or so from the meter math. Either way, you'll end up with a far more accurate number than you'll be able to come up with trying to calculate the geometry of your pool.

Tip'o'the'Day-3b?
Whether you use the meter trick or not, you'll probably be expected by your PB to monitor and stop the fill when your pool is full. Your PB should tell you where "full" is, but it's typically half way up the skimmer opening. Problem is, while that's easy to see when the pool is empty, it can be deceptively challenging to find halfway when there is water in the opening. The reflection and the refraction of the water will play tricks on you. So when the PB shows you where "full" is, put a piece of tape there to mark it.

It won't be long now!!!

- - - Updated - - -

3b isn't critical, by any means, because if you miss exactly where "full" is, the autofill will get adjusted and straighten that out. I misspoke, marking the "full" line with tape is really only about the meter trick, if you pursue that. If you're trying to determine how much water is in your pool, you want to stop the fill, and get that second meter reading, when the pool is at, or at least very close to, the level it'll normally be at. If you read the meter when the pool is a couple of inches up or down, then your "normal water volume" number could be off by hundreds of gallons.
 
Get some more info on this please: "Prem HD Flex Vac w/MTL HNDL" You should not use anything with wheels for the first 30 days.

Dirk hit on the test kit-look in my siggy for the one I think is the best bang for the buck. It has more of the regents we use every day.

Go put that salt in the house for now.

That is a fine heater. You are right..........every thing has good and bad. I do know that quite a few here at TFP are pushing Raypak heater. I will let you do a search in the white search box at the top of the page.

Your next job will be there when then shoot the gunite. They might have some ideas or concerns to share with you.

Kim:kim:
 
Your next job will be there when then shoot the gunite. They might have some ideas or concerns to share with you.
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Kim, can I be so bold? (To fix a little typo.) I believe she meant to type: Your next job will be to be there when they shoot the gunite. Because once they're done, the shape of your pool, and where everything is and what it'll look like, will literally be in stone, no going back. Sometimes they'll want to double-check a spec with you, or suggest a little shift of something they spot, that from experience shooting pools they'll know is going to make you happier. One sports pool build here wanted a pool depth of 3'-5'-4', and what they got on gunite day was 4'-5'-3' (they swapped the shallow ends). Done deal, they just have to live with it now. Best to be on site, ready for a quick consult, and to keep your eye on your pool as it comes to life!
 
Thanks for all the tips!

On the salt and the vacuum - The builder just sent all equipment included in our package at once. As I recall, he told me himself that the salt doesn't get added until after the plaster curing process. But I will double check and if necessary, let him know that I want to wait at least 30 days.

I've read the "don't stop filling up" tip a lot on here in other's new construction threads, and again, our builder has told us this too. In fact, he said since our pool isn't too large and we can run two hoses to it at once, they may start it early in the morning and then we may just have to have a late movie night staying up until it gets to the fill line. And yeah, I read the meter tip somewhere else (I think it was from you, Dirk, in another thread) so we've been planning on that. They just installed new fancy meters in our neighborhood that report meter readings electronically continuously and you can just look up on line what the reading is - that may or may not be activated come fill time, but either way, we know where our meter is out front and are ready to take the pics. I'm pretty sure the meter doesn't read in gallons so I might need some help with that conversion.

Oh, and yes, I already have my TF-100 Test Kit + Salt Walter Test Add-on + SpeedStir. After I donated here, I used my $20 discount and bought the kit plus the Skimmer Angel and Wall Whale Brush. However, I haven't started "practicing" with it yet. Partially because I've been busy and partially cause I'm tentative about how time consuming it'll be to figure it out. Which is probably the exact reason I should practice before fill day...

And yes, one or both of us are definitely planning on being there on gunite day as well as plaster day and fill day.

Nothing's happening today, but Monday the plumbers are coming to start running pipes everywhere.
 
Dirk, please DO fix anything I mess up. My fingers and brain are not always connected LOL

Frodo, There are videos of the test kits that are VERY helpful! Watch them a couple, few times then do your test. I would budget about 1 hour for the first time just to be on the safe side. Once you have done them a couple of times you will get it down to 15 or so mins for the full set!

Kim:kim:
 
hollywoodfrodo said:
Thanks for all the tips!
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Well color me impressed! With both you and the builder. I read so many horror stories here (there's a real doozie going on just now in another thread), that maybe I've become a little jaded, and am now havin' trouble wrapping my head around a successful build by a PB that knows what he's doing! Sounds like you and your team are well ahead of the curve!

Yah, it was probably me with the meter trick. Like I said, I just keep tellin' it and sellin' it over and over! Somebody's going to bite, I just know it! ;)
 

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