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Thread: pH Keeps Rising?

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    Unhappy pH Keeps Rising?

    Broken record question, but I can not seem to keep the pH stable in my pool. I understand that TA is a pH buffer, and 80-120ppm is the range. TA is at the bottom of the range at 85ppm, I have not tried raising it toward 120ppm because from the spa world higher TA means the pH rises higher in the 8 range once it hits 8 but the trade off is it rises slower? I do have a CYA problem I am trying to ride out not sure if that is affecting the pH...the CYA level is at 90ppm and I am now on 100% liquid chlorine until it drops below 50. I keep the FC higher to compensate the CYA while I ride it out. I keep adding cup after cup of acid based on pool math and it works but never holds. Suggestions?
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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    My TA is 50 to no more than 60 and my ph remains pretty dang stable. It's whatever works in YOUR pool. Ranges are suggestions that work for MOST people. Maybe you just ain't one of them!
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    aussieta's Avatar
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    as mentioned let your ta drop and aim for high 7s for ph
    dont try to keep ph too low as it will want a sweet spot
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    Stop raising the TA. If the pH keeps going too high, the TA is too high. If the pH keeps going too low, the TA is too low. When the TA is right, the pH will be stable.
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    I never raised the TA to begin with, I added enough acid to drop it before I started this process. The pH likes to sit at 8+ (dark pink). So what do you all suggest I do next? T

    When I started the TA was @ 120 so I added enough acid to drop the pH to 7, then it naturally rose back to 8 over a few days but the TA stayed low as I intended to do. I never tried correcting the pH when I was @ 120 though.
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkfloydeffect View Post
    I never raised the TA to begin with, I added enough acid to drop it before I started this process. The pH likes to sit at 8+ (dark pink). So what do you all suggest I do next? T

    When I started the TA was @ 120 so I added enough acid to drop the pH to 7, then it naturally rose back to 8 over a few days.
    Keep adding muratic acid to move the pH down. The TA will go down with it, albeit slowly. As Woody pointed out, many of us maintain TA in the 50-60 range to stabilize the pH as much as possible.

    But, water movement causes aeration and this raises pH. Waterfalls, spillovers, and children playing cause pH rise.
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    To expand on Tim's great answer - pH may never "stabilize" in your pool. Most of us have to add acid from time to time to keep it in range. This is ok, and is a perfectly normal facet of pool maintenance. Much like chlorine, muriatic acid is something you'll keep on hand and use over time.
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    I just added more acid, so I will see what that does. So the "TA below 80" is not just a spa thing you guys widely follow this with your pools too?

    Thank you both for your help.

    Can anyone expand or confirm on the high TA vs low TA? How is this related to how FAST or how HIGH the pH will rise? Was my original post correct on its relation? Low TA = lower pH cap but rises to its cap quick and high TA = higher pH potential with a slower rise??
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkfloydeffect View Post
    I just added more acid, so I will see what that does. So the "TA below 80" is not just a spa thing you guys widely follow this with your pools too?

    Thank you both for your help.

    Can anyone expand or confirm on the high TA vs low TA? How is this related to how FAST or how HIGH the pH will rise? Was my original post correct on its relation? Low TA = lower pH cap but rises to its cap quick and high TA = higher pH potential with a slower rise??
    The lower the TA the slower pH will rise. But, much below 50 and things become unstable.
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkfloydeffect View Post
    I just added more acid, so I will see what that does. So the "TA below 80" is not just a spa thing you guys widely follow this with your pools too? ...
    Yup! I try to keep my TA around 60 or so in my pool to assist with slower pH increase (my Kreepy agitates the water and helps raise my pH, plus my fill water is higher TA which constantly applies an upwards pressure on TA as well).
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    Higher TA causes the pH to rise faster.

    If you target a TA of 60 and a pH of 7.8, the pH should be stable.
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    I have a Zodiac MX6 robotic vac that stays in my pool for a few hours almost every day, could that be causing it? It climbs the walls and sometimes gurgles at the surface as it struggles at the top sucking in some air.

    I also have a solar heater on my roof, that seems to have a slow leak somewhere so could it be pulling air into the system through the leak too aerating that way?
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkfloydeffect View Post
    I have a Zodiac MX6 robotic vac that stays in my pool for a few hours almost every day, could that be causing it? It climbs the walls and sometimes gurgles at the surface as it struggles at the top sucking in some air.

    I also have a solar heater on my roof, that seems to have a slow leak somewhere so could it be pulling air into the system through the leak too aerating that way?
    Correct, both of those can cause pH to rise. Almost all pools have rising pH, it's a fact of life for most of us.
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    I understand this is something we all deal with, I just need to get it under control so I am not adding a gallon of acid every single week.
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    If you target a TA of 60 and a pH of 7.8, the pH should be stable.

    Try to keep the CSI between -0.3 and 0.0.
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    I will target 60 and see how the pH does. I seem to be adding liquid chlorine every few days, will that make my pH swing? I read something about bleach affects the pH much more than liquid chlorine even though they are the same thing (ish) ?
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    Bleach/liquid chlorine is ultimately pH neutral. It raises pH a little as it is added, and then the process of consuming the chlorine creates an acidity that lowers the pH again. Plain, unscented bleach is the same thing as liquid chlorine - the only difference is usually the concentration. Both affect pH exactly the same.

    A gallon a week of muriatic acid does sound awful high to me. Any way you can reduce aeration will be a good thing.
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkfloydeffect View Post
    I seem to be adding liquid chlorine every few days
    You really want to ad chlorine every day. A slow steady diet seems ot work best. Of all methods, a salt water chlorine generator seems to work best, followed by some sort of automated liquid chlorine delivery (Stenner pump). Short of that, once you get a feel for your pools appetite for chlorine just add that amount while you are having your morning coffee each day. Letting it go too long allows life to get in the way and missing an addition and eventually algae rears it's ugly head.
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    aussieta's Avatar
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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    my ta is 60 and ph is 7.6 and it hasnt moved in 12 months, i have not added anything ( swg)
    ideally i would like my ph to be 7.8 but it is stable so i am not going to mess with it
    SWG inground peanut shaped eco-bright concrete pool
    50,000 litres 13,000 gallons
    Lincoln Salt Chlorinator, 25 gram cell Sand Filter with glass media
    Taylor K2006-C test kit, Taylor K-1766 salt test, Dolphin M500 pool cleaner
    are you taking care of your pool or is the poolshop taking care of you

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    Re: pH Keeps Rising?

    Thanks guys.

    As far as FC using liquid I raise it to 6ppm and that usually will not drop to lower then 2 or 3 after about a week. I target 6 because the CYA is high and the pool is not being used right now.

    Adding liquid chlorine is a pain, always have to be careful of what I am wearing that day to not ruin my clothes with a single drop. We are in the same boat with our spa, I want to add a liquid chlorine dosing pump to the spa as well as the pool but have not figured out a method yet. All we have is an in-line Trichlor feeder that I have emptied out and stopped using due to the CYA issues. Why hasent anyone come up with a floating liquid dispenser yet??
    15,000 Gallon Heated Diamond Brite Plaster Pool
    200 Gallon Hot Springs Jetsetter Spa
    Outdoors Partial Tree Shaded Lanai
    Taylor K2006 Test + SpeedStir

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