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Thread: Automation with V-Green 165

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    Automation with V-Green 165

    I see a few posts when I do a search of people trying to get the Century A.O. Smith V-Green motor to work with their specific automation system, but the threads just died.

    I am referring to this motor: A.O. Smith 1.65 HP Variable Speed Pool Pump Motor Square Flange - ECM16SQU - INYOPools.com

    I do not own an automation system, but I would now like to purchase one if it is compatible with this motor.

    Has anyone had any success? Is so, can you please most your setup and experience?

    This motor does have an RS-485 header, but little is documented in the user manual.
    There are also digital inputs for programming 1 of 4 speeds with a priority order.

    I am not familiar with automation systems, but if the RS-485 connection doesn't work, can I use relays or some other control (lights, acturators, etc.) to program a few speeds of the motor? I don't have any water features so will likely only need a few speeds.

    The digital control from the manual is shown below:

    Control with Digital Inputs
    The user can run the V-Green 165 at the programmed STEP 1, STEP 2,
    STEP 3, or OVERRIDE speeds by utilizing the four digital inputs. STEP
    1, STEP 2, STEP 3, or OVERRIDE are equivalent to Digital Input 1, 2, 3
    or 4 respectively.
    NOTE: The controller is rated to accept digital inputs of 18V-30V AC
    (24V AC+/- 20%) and 9-30V DC (12/24V DC +/- 20%).

    NOTE: The V-Green 165 will detect either a 50/60Hz for AC input or an
    active low signal for DC digital inputs
    --Michael--
    25K gallon in ground/spa, Century V 165 VS Pump, Pentair CCP 420 cartridge, Teledyne Laars Mark V 350K BTU Heater, Polaris PB460 pump w/280, blower, Compupool SWG

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Automation with V-Green 165

    M,

    Have you seen V-Link made for this motor??? https://images.inyopools.com/cloud/d...n-manual-1.pdf

    It looks like a much better idea than trying to use relays...

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: Automation with V-Green 165

    MN, I own that pump.

    I've not yet attempted automation of the variable speeds but instead have it connected to my automation in an on-off condition that works with my Intermatic PE653 controller.

    I believe there are two ways to control the speeds via automation -- one is by adding the VLink Jim referenced. The other is to purchase an expansion to the PE653. Each solution is a few hundred bucks extra. Since I don't want you to rely on my possibly faulty memory, give Intermatic a call to confirm the name of the expander if you elect to consider purchasing the PE653.

    The unit (653) is way more economical automation comparatively...and would still be cheaper than something like Pentair easy touch and screen logic even with either expansion option, but Intermatic no longer supports smartthings integration so unlike Pentair, Jandy etc., cannot be connected to mobile phone out of the box.

    There is a hack available, a device controller written in groovy that I've been experimenting with, largely successfully but not without occasional bugginess I've yet to resolve. I plan to write some pistons in st web core to hopefully remedy, but won't likely get around to it for another month.

    SO, if you post back what automation route you go, I can update you accordingly with my mad code experiments
    In ground vinyl Grecian, 24k gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, VGreen VSP 165, Hayward SWG, Raypak NG 265k heater, dolphin m4.
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    Re: Automation with V-Green 165

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Regarding V-Link, I did not see much value in that for me. It only lets you control the motor.
    I would like to add automation, such as: Pool mode, spa mode, cleaning mode, solar mode
    With that will need actuators and other circuit controls.

    Thanks for feedback for Intermatic PE653, that was very helpful. That may work for me. I do have Z-wave in my house, so in theory I can use my phone to connect to Z-wave controller over wifi, and control it that way.
    In fact, the Intermatic expansion module P5043 is the only documentation I have seen so far that specifically mentions control of the Century VS motors.
    The downside is that looks like it controls using the digital inputs as opposed to RS-485, meaning you can only get 4 speed settings, but that is enough for me.
    So far it looks like PE653 + P5043 will work.

    Anyone have experience using Z-wave with PE653? Works well and reliable?

    Manual for P5043 Expansion Module (with reference to Century motor) is here:
    https://www.intermatic.com/-/media/i...nstructions-EN
    --Michael--
    25K gallon in ground/spa, Century V 165 VS Pump, Pentair CCP 420 cartridge, Teledyne Laars Mark V 350K BTU Heater, Polaris PB460 pump w/280, blower, Compupool SWG

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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: Automation with V-Green 165

    Well, MN, working with Zwave is a loaded question right now in the world of Smartthings at least.

    Someone named KeithR at the ST community wrote a device handler (available at github...I can look it up and post it later) that I currently have working. It liberates the end point commands for individual naming/control/rules aka scheduling. Together with webcore pistons to improve device polling of switches, I've had it mostly stable save the odd st outage. But development on the handler has been dormant since last May and the code may soon obsolesce.

    Thats because Smartthings is currently upgrading its app and long term will not likely support custom device handlers written in groovy going forward, which will kill off dev in "classic" st, I predict. They do have a new developer area for the new platform, but who knows how long until someone undertakes rewriting the Intermatic handler...

    The DIY community could well migrate to a new, local smart hub called Hubitat, but right now there's not a lot of documentation for writing device handlers and there is no support for the Intermatic. Hubitat is not cloud based -- local processing and local rule sets, able to back up devices and handlers -- all of which have me tettering on the point of purchase. But the product is in startup mode and not necessarily mature enough to predict reliable handling.

    I'm going to post/save this reply and get you some links to the github code and thread so you can review a bit. Just be forewarned that there may be tinkering ahead if you go this route But if you're a tinkerer...you're golden!


    This thread is long, and there are myriad updates...the handler version I'm using is his last one from May:
    Intermatic PE653 Pool Control System - Community Created Device Types - SmartThings Community

    Here is the Git Hub code: GitHub - KeithR26/Intermatic-PE653: Z-Wave Device Type for the Intermatic PE653 Pool Controller

    These screenshots will give you an idea of how it works, more or less:
    image.jpg
    image.jpg
    image.jpg
    In ground vinyl Grecian, 24k gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, VGreen VSP 165, Hayward SWG, Raypak NG 265k heater, dolphin m4.
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    Re: Automation with V-Green 165

    That is some great information, at least using Zwave seems possible, but not easy.
    I have a Vera controller, and I see some folks have this working, but others report problems.
    This thread for example: PE653 Intermatic

    It seems very dependent on the firmware of the PE563.

    Even if I don't get Zwave working, the PE953 remote should provide enough functionality and is a vast improvement from the manual method I currently use.

    I am also open to buying a new automation controller/hub if it is works reliably with the Intermatic.

    I am close to pulling the trigger on getting this, if I do I will update my success with getting it to work with the Vera Zwave controller.
    --Michael--
    25K gallon in ground/spa, Century V 165 VS Pump, Pentair CCP 420 cartridge, Teledyne Laars Mark V 350K BTU Heater, Polaris PB460 pump w/280, blower, Compupool SWG

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    Re: Automation with V-Green 165

    Firmware ver 3.4 was the version that caused Intermatic to no longer support smartthings integration but that's my version and its working with Keith's code. If you don't need offsite control, I will say that the remote and the scheduling capabilities are just fine right out of the box, at least for my purposes.

    I only went down the ST road because I wanted to be able to remote-monitor the dome during winter storms if off-site given my semi-risky winter config -- eg set up temp alerts to tell me if something went wrong, etc. (like the heater quitting, which happened previously.)

    The hand-held remote has been super reliable and the scheduling flawless comparatively which is why I suspect local zwave will or would trump cloud handling if they get the Hubitat off the ground and someone writes a handler. I might have a go at it in early summer when the dome comes down, in which case I'll let you know because by summer, I'd like to expand control to the vsp too.
    In ground vinyl Grecian, 24k gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, VGreen VSP 165, Hayward SWG, Raypak NG 265k heater, dolphin m4.
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    Re: Automation with V-Green 165

    MN, I just installed the V-green 1.65, and a SWG last weekend myself. Youtube was great learning all the steps and works flawlessly. I have yet to do automation, so this thread is helpful. Still trying to understand all of the terminology you all are talking about...but in time.
    20'x40' vinyl liner pool, 23K gallons, filter: Hayward DE 3600 4820, 1hp single speed 1.65 V-Green VS motor, Circupool RJ-45 SWG, 1.5 inch PVC, 2 skimmers/1 main drain, 3 returns and 2 bubble jets @ stairs, and a partridge in a pair tree. testing: K-2006, Salt; K-1766, Test Strips; Aquachek 7. calculator: PoolMath

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    Re: Automation with V-Green 165

    Let me give an update.
    I purchased the Intermatic P653RC and expansion module P5043ME.
    I went down this path because:
    1. It was the only one that had documented support for Century VS motors (with using P504ME expansion)
    2. I have 2 intermaitc mechanical timers with enclosures, so this would make an easy retrofit
    3. I found a used P5043ME on ebay and decided to take a chance (it works!)
    4. Even at full list price, this is still cheaper than any of the major pool brands, and those might not work for me

    I have only partially wired things up, but I do confirm it can control the Century V165 motor with the following options: Off, Speed 1, Speed 2, Speed 3, Speed 4. These are the speeds you can program via the Century keypad. I have the Century motor wired to always have power.

    I also have it wired to turn power on the my SWG on one of the high voltage relay circuits.

    This is all I have done so far. The user interface isn't the best, it reminds me of the old days when you setup your VCR for recording. If I want to change it, I know I will have to reference the manual again. For example, currently I have it setup to turn my Century VS on at 2AM and off at 3PM on Speed 1. I then have a separate program for Circuit 1 (my SWG) to turn on for several hours that I have to make sure I don't have the wrong times. This is OK by me, as I can more sure it only turns on when pump is supposed to be on.

    There are only two presets that I can figure out: Pool mode and Spa Mode. These can be toggled by pushing the P/S button on the remote. I wish there were more presets, such as Clean Mode, Pool Heater Mode

    I find the construction and partitioning of this setup a little awkward. For example the P653 receiver module is connect to the top of the Intermatic enclosure. And the expansion module P5043ME fits perfectly in the Intermatic encloser that the P653 comes with. The two wire communication (I assume RS-485) connection between P653 and P5043ME had me stumped during installation. I concluded the instructions indicate running this wire from the top of the P653, outside, and back into the enclosure on the bottom, and then to the appropriate connector on P5043ME. I made a simple mod and routed inside the P653 and into the enclosure.

    I am also worried about the weatherproof and hardiness of the P653. Since this is plastic and sits on top of the metal Intermatic Enclosure. I love the standard metal Intermatic enclosure for timers, mine are still waterproof after all these years, they look like the original ones probably installed in the 80's. I wish they have the P653 in one of these by itself. All my equipment is outside on a pad and exposed to the elements. I think I will have to make some sort of rain cover for it.

    Overall I am satisfied with it so far. As everyone knows the brand name pool automation equipment is so expensive, it is nice to see Intermatic in this small market with some lower cost offerings.

    I plan to add: Heater, Pool/Spa actuators, temp sensors, Booster pump for cleaner, Solar, pool light
    If it can do all that, it is a lot of features for the price.

    Now I am trying to figure out how to do the low voltage wiring.
    I need to open up a break out in the metal enclosure.
    Any advice for weatherproofing this? It did come with a insert, but it seems more like a cable management thing.
    How to people bring out low voltage wires and make it waterproof?
    I will have 3 actuators, 1 heater, 1 motor control
    Do I just install a right angle conduit and point it down?

    Also, any advice for the low voltage wiring? How to avoid the spaghetti look?
    Zip ties along the pipes?
    --Michael--
    25K gallon in ground/spa, Century V 165 VS Pump, Pentair CCP 420 cartridge, Teledyne Laars Mark V 350K BTU Heater, Polaris PB460 pump w/280, blower, Compupool SWG

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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: Automation with V-Green 165

    Hi Michael. Sounds like so far so good

    My setup is indoors (pool house) so I can't elp you on weatherproofing. I believe my electrician used zip ties on the lw voltage wires...I'll check to see in the morning and post back.

    I am running a heater, but not actuators, on mine.
    In ground vinyl Grecian, 24k gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, VGreen VSP 165, Hayward SWG, Raypak NG 265k heater, dolphin m4.
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