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Thread: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

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    agent86's Avatar
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    New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    Will have my signature updated shortly...but in the mean time we just finished up with a new pool construction..~23.5k gallon gunite/diamond brite pool (will switch over to salt when everything is stabilized)

    PB added a bunch of startup chemicals (metal out, super shock, etc....but no muriatic acid...and currently alkalinity level is currently around 260ppm...

    I know I should be providing more but wanted to get the Alkalinity level spot on first before testing anything else...

    Currently have pump on full circulation..and current Chlorine level is close to 3.0 judging from the color test...

    I added 1.5 gallons of muriatic acid....how long before I can re-test the levels? I'm sure I'll need to add more but don't want to rush things...
    Pool: 24k, 38' x 19' x 24' Free-form IG Gunite with 24' Infinity Edge and Cantilever coping, SGM Diamond Brite Super Blue Plaster,
    Filter: Hayward C5025 Swim Clear Cartridge Pool Filter - 525 Square Feet
    Main Pool Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 1HP - (SP3210EE), Hayward Pool Cleaner Booster Pump - 6060
    Infinity Edge Catch Basin Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 3HP - (SP3230EE)
    Automation: Aqua Plus 40K Gallon Chlorination and Control - PL-PLUS (SWG)

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    please tell me you tested your ph before pouring that kind of MA in the pool.
    taking care of TA before anything else is like putting the icing on the cake before baking it. and depending on what your ph was, you may have just burnt your cake to a crisp. what are your other numbers?
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    Forgot to post the pH test as well...was close to 8.2...
    Pool: 24k, 38' x 19' x 24' Free-form IG Gunite with 24' Infinity Edge and Cantilever coping, SGM Diamond Brite Super Blue Plaster,
    Filter: Hayward C5025 Swim Clear Cartridge Pool Filter - 525 Square Feet
    Main Pool Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 1HP - (SP3210EE), Hayward Pool Cleaner Booster Pump - 6060
    Infinity Edge Catch Basin Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 3HP - (SP3230EE)
    Automation: Aqua Plus 40K Gallon Chlorination and Control - PL-PLUS (SWG)

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    phew. have you retested? hopefully you're around 7.0. what about cya?
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    Just retested...looks to be just over 7.2....(after adding acid 3 hours ago...)
    Pool: 24k, 38' x 19' x 24' Free-form IG Gunite with 24' Infinity Edge and Cantilever coping, SGM Diamond Brite Super Blue Plaster,
    Filter: Hayward C5025 Swim Clear Cartridge Pool Filter - 525 Square Feet
    Main Pool Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 1HP - (SP3210EE), Hayward Pool Cleaner Booster Pump - 6060
    Infinity Edge Catch Basin Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 3HP - (SP3230EE)
    Automation: Aqua Plus 40K Gallon Chlorination and Control - PL-PLUS (SWG)

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    Working on the other tests shortly as well...
    Pool: 24k, 38' x 19' x 24' Free-form IG Gunite with 24' Infinity Edge and Cantilever coping, SGM Diamond Brite Super Blue Plaster,
    Filter: Hayward C5025 Swim Clear Cartridge Pool Filter - 525 Square Feet
    Main Pool Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 1HP - (SP3210EE), Hayward Pool Cleaner Booster Pump - 6060
    Infinity Edge Catch Basin Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 3HP - (SP3230EE)
    Automation: Aqua Plus 40K Gallon Chlorination and Control - PL-PLUS (SWG)

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    ok full test from TFT kit...

    FC = 8
    CC = 0
    TC = 8
    pH = 7.2
    T/A = 370 (tested twice)
    CH = 190
    CYA = 20
    Temp = 91
    Pool: 24k, 38' x 19' x 24' Free-form IG Gunite with 24' Infinity Edge and Cantilever coping, SGM Diamond Brite Super Blue Plaster,
    Filter: Hayward C5025 Swim Clear Cartridge Pool Filter - 525 Square Feet
    Main Pool Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 1HP - (SP3210EE), Hayward Pool Cleaner Booster Pump - 6060
    Infinity Edge Catch Basin Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 3HP - (SP3230EE)
    Automation: Aqua Plus 40K Gallon Chlorination and Control - PL-PLUS (SWG)

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    how long has it been done? how long has water been in it? have you added anything?
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    New pool...officially filled up this past Wednesday (8/5)...

    PB added on the following day (Thursday) one 5lb container of Super SHOCK-IT, a couple bottles of some Metal Out (can't find containers), and I found an empty 4lb Pool Stabilizer container...

    Chemicals still stabilizing??

    Thanks
    Pool: 24k, 38' x 19' x 24' Free-form IG Gunite with 24' Infinity Edge and Cantilever coping, SGM Diamond Brite Super Blue Plaster,
    Filter: Hayward C5025 Swim Clear Cartridge Pool Filter - 525 Square Feet
    Main Pool Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 1HP - (SP3210EE), Hayward Pool Cleaner Booster Pump - 6060
    Infinity Edge Catch Basin Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 3HP - (SP3230EE)
    Automation: Aqua Plus 40K Gallon Chlorination and Control - PL-PLUS (SWG)

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    And, please test your fill water for TA.

    Mine is 340 in The Woodlands TX so I suspect that the high TA is just straight from the tap.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    4lbs of cya in a 23,500 gallon pool will get you roughly 20ppm cya. I would be thinking about adding more of that. you can still wait a week or so if you want, as overshooting cya isn't fun. are they coming out to add anything else?
    also, you can test your fill water if you like, but it's obviously high and you're probably going to be testing quite a bit while you lower it. just keep an eye on the reagent and order refills early if you plan on getting them online. there is an article in pool school about lowering TA, but as you have brand new plaster your ph is going to be rising quite a bit anyway. I personally wouldn't aerate or do anything to raise the ph at this point, but monitor closely and add acid as needed or as instructed by the builder. I tend to think that they will be coming out again. any idea?
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    TA = 410 straight out of hose...
    Pool: 24k, 38' x 19' x 24' Free-form IG Gunite with 24' Infinity Edge and Cantilever coping, SGM Diamond Brite Super Blue Plaster,
    Filter: Hayward C5025 Swim Clear Cartridge Pool Filter - 525 Square Feet
    Main Pool Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 1HP - (SP3210EE), Hayward Pool Cleaner Booster Pump - 6060
    Infinity Edge Catch Basin Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 3HP - (SP3230EE)
    Automation: Aqua Plus 40K Gallon Chlorination and Control - PL-PLUS (SWG)

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    Hopefully the PB mentioned that the pH will rise a whole lot at first; experience on this forum is that the pH can take up to a year to really settle down, although the pH will stop rising quite so fast after maybe a month or three.

    So, shop around for good prices and stock up on the MA, you're gonna need it.

    Normally, as you add acid, the TA will drop as well as the pH. But in a new plaster situation I'm not sure what the TA does. Somebody with more experience will have to advise on that.

    Regarding CYA, in 23.5k gallons, 4lb stabilizer is worth about 20ppm according to the Pool Calculator so you're going to need more than that. Alternatively you could use trichlor as a primary chlorine source for a while, which will contribute to chlorine, CYA, and lowering pH all at once. It looks like you'd want about 15 of the 8-oz pucks (over time, not all at once) to raise CYA by another 20 or so.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    Yes, the PB will be coming out all throughout the week to check on everything...still have some other work to be done....

    This pool has an infinity edge which runs approximately 4 hours / day right now....
    Pool: 24k, 38' x 19' x 24' Free-form IG Gunite with 24' Infinity Edge and Cantilever coping, SGM Diamond Brite Super Blue Plaster,
    Filter: Hayward C5025 Swim Clear Cartridge Pool Filter - 525 Square Feet
    Main Pool Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 1HP - (SP3210EE), Hayward Pool Cleaner Booster Pump - 6060
    Infinity Edge Catch Basin Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 3HP - (SP3230EE)
    Automation: Aqua Plus 40K Gallon Chlorination and Control - PL-PLUS (SWG)

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    Quote Originally Posted by agent86
    This pool has an infinity edge which runs approximately 4 hours / day right now....

    Ooooh, Fancy!

    Re the fill water TA... it will tend to push pH up so the acid additions will probably be a permanent thing.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    Yeah, when the PB tested the water for the alkalinity, you could tell he was quite surprised on how high it was and did say I would struggle with keeping it down...specially when the water autofill kicks on throughout the week...
    Pool: 24k, 38' x 19' x 24' Free-form IG Gunite with 24' Infinity Edge and Cantilever coping, SGM Diamond Brite Super Blue Plaster,
    Filter: Hayward C5025 Swim Clear Cartridge Pool Filter - 525 Square Feet
    Main Pool Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 1HP - (SP3210EE), Hayward Pool Cleaner Booster Pump - 6060
    Infinity Edge Catch Basin Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 3HP - (SP3230EE)
    Automation: Aqua Plus 40K Gallon Chlorination and Control - PL-PLUS (SWG)

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    Last question for this evening...

    With these readings is it safe enough to swim in for a couple hours tomorrow/tonight by adults...(me actually)
    Pool: 24k, 38' x 19' x 24' Free-form IG Gunite with 24' Infinity Edge and Cantilever coping, SGM Diamond Brite Super Blue Plaster,
    Filter: Hayward C5025 Swim Clear Cartridge Pool Filter - 525 Square Feet
    Main Pool Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 1HP - (SP3210EE), Hayward Pool Cleaner Booster Pump - 6060
    Infinity Edge Catch Basin Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 3HP - (SP3230EE)
    Automation: Aqua Plus 40K Gallon Chlorination and Control - PL-PLUS (SWG)

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    well cya of 20 is pretty low compared to your fc level. technically it is below shock level. I probably would personally. wear old shorts or go naked.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    Quote Originally Posted by agent86
    Yeah, when the PB tested the water for the alkalinity, you could tell he was quite surprised on how high it was and did say I would struggle with keeping it down...specially when the water autofill kicks on throughout the week...
    It will come down eventually. My pool is at about 100 now, it does bounce around a lot. I got it down to 80 but in a month or two it is back up to 110. I add acid maybe once a week just to keep pH in range. I've only attacked the TA one time to get it down from 140 to 80. I do add rather a lot of fill water.... even though we got the pool leak fixed, at least the main leak, there may be another or two minor ones. Might have gotten those puttied today, we'll see. Or else the fill water is just due to evaporation from the waterfall.

    With the autofill, will there be any way to monitor how much water it adds over time? This pool apparently had a leak from the time it was built, 8 years ago, until we bought the house. We knew there had to be a leak, even though both house and pool inspectors said no. Finally we found it and fixed it (underneath rock coping, very hard to see) and there are still a few places that are suspicious. Were I not filling up the pool so often during the winter, the wet season, I would have dismissed it like the prior owners did.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

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    Re: New Pool - Alkalinity HIGH

    With the autofill, will there be any way to monitor how much water it adds over time?
    Great question...really didn't think about that...I'll have to look into that one, I think the perfect solution would be for the automated computer controlled unit to provide details on a weekly/monthly readout but I'm not counting on that!

    Thanks
    Pool: 24k, 38' x 19' x 24' Free-form IG Gunite with 24' Infinity Edge and Cantilever coping, SGM Diamond Brite Super Blue Plaster,
    Filter: Hayward C5025 Swim Clear Cartridge Pool Filter - 525 Square Feet
    Main Pool Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 1HP - (SP3210EE), Hayward Pool Cleaner Booster Pump - 6060
    Infinity Edge Catch Basin Pump: Hayward TriStar Energy Efficient Pool Pump 3HP - (SP3230EE)
    Automation: Aqua Plus 40K Gallon Chlorination and Control - PL-PLUS (SWG)

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