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Thread: New Pool! Sort of!

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    New Pool! Sort of!

    Recently purchased a new home with a pool. If it weren't for TFP I don't think I would have got the pool in my old house so pristine! Balancing the water and keeping the levels maintained I can handle. I can't for the life of me figure out what all the switches do on this thing... The pool has a spa above it, which waterfalls into the pool. There are returns in the floor and the walls. There's one skimmer and the main drain in the floor. For some reason the Jets don't come on. I've gotten some of the ones in the floor to pop up a couple times but no rhyme or reason as to why the wall Jets only come on in the spa and not in the pool. Allot of the equipment seems busted. Looks like an old chlorinator that doesn't power on.... There are heaters that are there that don't work either. There's piping that goes up to the roof for solar. I guess that started leaking so that doesn't work and I'm afraid to turn that on. Here are some photos. If anyone can tell me anything that would be great. So far the skimmer only stays on when the waterfall is on. That's the only form of circulation that is going on from what I can tell. The only decent piece of equipment seems to be the variable speed pump. With nothing really working is it ok to run it low?
    19000 gallon concrete pool /Pentair 1.0 HP pump/ Pentair clean and clear 100 cartridge filter /Pentair IC40 SWG/ Hayward the Poolcleaner/ k2006

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    In your first picture with the pump. Those two valves control where water is being pulled from in the pool/spa. My guess is the one with the yellow handle appears to be currently set to only pull in water from the spa drain. The valve on the right is connected to two PVC pipes that go into the ground, one is probably connected to your skimmers and the other is probably your pool main drain.

    Just to get started I'd rotate both of those valves 90 degrees clockwise. Then start the pump, make sure you have water flowing and then check all the skimmers and drains to see if your getting suction from all of them.

    Then we'll have to continue to figure out the rest of that stuff.
    20' X 40' IG vinyl lined; 31,300 gallons; built ~30years ago
    Hayward 1HP Single Speed Pump w/Sand Filter
    Taylor K-2006,Rola-chem sodium hypo feeder/ 15 gallon tank
    Fill from soft/neutral well water, low flowrate well pump

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    In your second picture, both of those valves are in the off position. They would need to be "sideways" to the pipe to be on. So in the first picture, water is being pulled only from the 2 pipe setup on the right side, and from those 2, only the top one is on.
    29k Gallon Free Form Gunite Pool, 3 floor returns, 2 wall returns, 1 vacuum pressure port, 2 skimmers, Main drain, Jandy 2.7HP VSP, Jandy JXI400N Gas Heater, Jandy CV340 Cartridge Filter, FusionSoft 1400 SWG, 2 Watercolors LED, iAqualink with PDA, Sheer Waterfall, Rock Waterfall, 9' Deep End w/Diving Board, SunDeck, Polaris 9650iQ, TF-100 - Pool Build - 2017 - Google Photos

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGate View Post
    In your second picture, both of those valves are in the off position. They would need to be "sideways" to the pipe to be on. So in the first picture, water is being pulled only from the 2 pipe setup on the right side, and from those 2, only the top one is on.
    The line that is off is the solar heat which goes on the roof which I'm told leaks so I'm hesitant to turn that one on. As for the two to the right turns the skimmer and main drain. I know the skimmer works. I have no clue if the main drain does. I'm going to spend some time on the pool today checking to see if the drains all work. I might open the valves to the solar to see if that turns on the jets
    19000 gallon concrete pool /Pentair 1.0 HP pump/ Pentair clean and clear 100 cartridge filter /Pentair IC40 SWG/ Hayward the Poolcleaner/ k2006

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    Small,

    That is without a doubt one hot mess...

    Based upon your pics I'll try and run through the flow for you, but because the pics can't show everything, I could well be wrong. Hopefully it will at least give you a place to start...

    Pic #1....

    The yellow handle valve is your Intake valve and selects between your Spa, your skimmer and your Main Drain or Vacuum port. It is currently set to so that the pipe on the left (Spa suction) is off, meaning all your water is coming from the right side. The valve on the right of your pic is most likely in the Skimmer position with the MD or vac off. If I am correct, the water is being pulled from the skimmer through your pump and into your filter..

    Pic #2

    Water comes out of your filter and into a check valve and then up to another Yellow handle valve which I am assuming is a 3-Way valve.. You can't see the 3-way part in the pic, but it is the only way it can work. This yellow valve, bypasses the solar system which is currently off (I would leave it off, until you know what all the other valves do..) Water comes into the yellow valve and makes a hard left turn sending water through the pipe with the salt cell's flow switch (wire hanging out the bottom)... then through the blue salt cell and into the ground..

    Pic #3

    After passing through the blue salt cell and into the ground, I believe it then comes back up and into the heater through the top pipe with the little bypass going into the heater. The water passes through the heater and out the other pipe connected to the little bypass and into yet another Yellow handle valve. I believe this valve is your "Return" valve and selects either the Spa (top of pic and currently on) or back to the Pool (currently off)... If you rotate the Yellow handle 180 degrees, the water will then go through the other two valves in the pic.. I am not sure exactly how they work, but assume that the left bottom valve sends water to your wall returns and that the valve on the right sends water through the floor returns and maybe is also used as a make up valve to allow your Spa spillover to run when in the Pool mode...

    Again I could be full of stuff, but it is the only way I can get your plumbing to work at all..

    I suggest you play with the valves and prove me wrong.. If nothing else it should teach you what each valve does.

    Thanks for posting,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    Thanks everyone! I will get on it this afternoon and test everything. I'll be back to report hopefully but the end of the day
    19000 gallon concrete pool /Pentair 1.0 HP pump/ Pentair clean and clear 100 cartridge filter /Pentair IC40 SWG/ Hayward the Poolcleaner/ k2006

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    Alright round 2! I followed the water flow and labeled as I went. The floor Jets don't seem to all come up together. But I have gotten them working. 2 of them don't come up at all. I've gotten a little bit of return from the wall jets, but then they stop. So it seems like something is blocking water return to those. Here are some updated pictures. Thanks everyone for some direction. Hopefully a little more help and I'm almost there! Also the filter is running at 35psi so I'll def clean or replace that tomorrow!
    19000 gallon concrete pool /Pentair 1.0 HP pump/ Pentair clean and clear 100 cartridge filter /Pentair IC40 SWG/ Hayward the Poolcleaner/ k2006

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    WOW, that really helps. Not sure what to say, looks like you've gotten it figured out. Definitely clean that filter, that pressure in the filter is definitely slowing down water flow.

    It's weird that water must go from your salt cell into the ground to your heater, why wouldn't they just leave that connection above ground? But I agree, it certainly appears that must be what's going on.


    So other than some jets coming on (probably the pressure issue), are there other things you still wondering? It sounds like you've figured it out to me.
    20' X 40' IG vinyl lined; 31,300 gallons; built ~30years ago
    Hayward 1HP Single Speed Pump w/Sand Filter
    Taylor K-2006,Rola-chem sodium hypo feeder/ 15 gallon tank
    Fill from soft/neutral well water, low flowrate well pump

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    Quote Originally Posted by Demegrad9 View Post
    WOW, that really helps. Not sure what to say, looks like you've gotten it figured out. Definitely clean that filter, that pressure in the filter is definitely slowing down water flow.

    It's weird that water must go from your salt cell into the ground to your heater, why wouldn't they just leave that connection above ground? But I agree, it certainly appears that must be what's going on.


    So other than some jets coming on (probably the pressure issue), are there other things you still wondering? It sounds like you've figured it out to me.
    At the moment I don't think I have anything until I clean the filter and get the Jets working. The fact that they sometimes come on and sometimes not is what was confusing me in the beginning..... Should there be water return at all times? Also why the heck would I ever want to turn the drain on for the spa? Should I be able to run the spa drain at the same time as the pool drain? I can only select one or the other or turn off water to the pump
    19000 gallon concrete pool /Pentair 1.0 HP pump/ Pentair clean and clear 100 cartridge filter /Pentair IC40 SWG/ Hayward the Poolcleaner/ k2006

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    I see that in one of your pictures, you've got a label that says "From Spa?" If you're not sure which one is the spa, you open that valve and see if the spa starts slowly draining. Usually the spa drain is left closed and when the water returns to the spa from the filter, is causes an overflow into the pool. For a quicker drain, close off or severely restrict the opening of the spa return valve. You'll get little to no water returning to the spa and you'll be able to see it drain much faster.

    One reason you might want to have the spa drain open is if you want to use the spa. By opening the spa drain and returning your water only to the spa, you can heat that baby up really quickly without heating up the rest of the pool. It will basically be a closed loop, it will drain from the spa and return to the spa.
    Pool size: 20,000 Gallon Plaster Pool, Pump: Hayward Tristar VS SP3202VSP, Filter: Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 320
    Polaris 280 Pressure side cleaner, Solar cover, Pentair Amerilite LED pool light, Taylor K-2006C test kit
    Location: San Jose, CA

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    Small,

    When you are in the Spa, you don't want to heat the entire pool... so you suck water out of the spa drain, through the heater and back out the spa jets... In this mode the spillover is off and you are only heating the spa water..

    You normally do not operate the spa drain and pool drain/skimmer at the same time...

    Here are the three basic modes a pool operates in...

    Pool Mode... Water is sucked in from the pool skimmer and/or main drain by the pump and pushed through your filter and heater and returned to your pool returns (Can be in floor or wall)...

    Spa Mode... Water is sucked in from the Spa drain by the pump and pushed through your filter and heater and returned to your Spa jets...

    Spillover mode... Water is sucked in from the pool skimmer and/or main drain by the pump and pushed through your filter and heater and returned to your Spa... Since more water goes into the spa than comes out, it spills over into the pool.

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    Quote Originally Posted by DeanP66 View Post
    I see that in one of your pictures, you've got a label that says "From Spa?" If you're not sure which one is the spa, you open that valve and see if the spa starts slowly draining. Usually the spa drain is left closed and when the water returns to the spa from the filter, is causes an overflow into the pool. For a quicker drain, close off or severely restrict the opening of the spa return valve. You'll get little to no water returning to the spa and you'll be able to see it drain much faster.
    Ok. So hows the best way to get even circulation throughout the pool and what RPM should I run the pool at to keep it sanitary and clean. It's currently running at 3000
    19000 gallon concrete pool /Pentair 1.0 HP pump/ Pentair clean and clear 100 cartridge filter /Pentair IC40 SWG/ Hayward the Poolcleaner/ k2006

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    With your setup, it's probably best to return water to as many returns as possible, including your spa. You don't want the water in your spa to get stagnant, so definitely turn on your spa returns at least a little bit. I've got a pool like yours in that the spa spills over into the pool. I have a 3 way Jandy valve set right in the middle between the spa and pool returns so water goes to both.

    As far as what RPM to use, since you have a salt cell, you'll need to run it at least fast enough so the salt cell will run. Generally it's around 1100 to 1200 RPM. There's really no reason to run it any faster than that unless you need to run your vacuum (more suction). I run mine for 18 hours a day at 1000 RPMs. I don't have a salt cell like you so it's a little different. I bet I could even get away with even less time if I wanted to, but at 1000 RPMs, the electrical is very cheap. It runs barely $20/month for me, so I just left it at 18 hours. When I vacuum my pool, I do turn it on to 3250 RPM for about 30 minutes to get good suction.
    Pool size: 20,000 Gallon Plaster Pool, Pump: Hayward Tristar VS SP3202VSP, Filter: Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 320
    Polaris 280 Pressure side cleaner, Solar cover, Pentair Amerilite LED pool light, Taylor K-2006C test kit
    Location: San Jose, CA

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    Quote Originally Posted by smallsmx3 View Post
    Ok. So hows the best way to get even circulation throughout the pool and what RPM should I run the pool at to keep it sanitary and clean. It's currently running at 3000
    Small,

    Dean has you covered on this one... 3000 is way to fast and probably part of the reason your filter pressure is so high... I have a larger filter than yours, but at 1200 rpm (what it takes to turn on my salt cell) my filter pressure is only 2 or maybe 3 lbs...

    Not sure you are using your salt cell, but if you are, the time it takes to generate the chlorine you need is plenty of time for proper circulation..

    Keep in mind that proper sanitation is a chemical process not a filter process.. Does not matter what filter you have, if your chemicals are not balanced correctly, you will still get algae..

    Do you actually have a waterfall?? If you are calling your spa spillover the "waterfall" then that valve is called a make up valve and allows you to put a little water into your spa to keep the water fresh when in the Pool mode... I have no idea what the other pipe, connected to that valve is for.. Try it and see what happens.

    Do me a favor.. double check your signature, as it just does not match your pool..

    Thanks for posting,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    Small,

    Dean has you covered on this one... 3000 is way to fast and probably part of the reason your filter pressure is so high... I have a larger filter than yours, but at 1200 rpm (what it takes to turn on my salt cell) my filter pressure is only 2 or maybe 3 lbs...

    Not sure you are using your salt cell, but if you are, the time it takes to generate the chlorine you need is plenty of time for proper circulation..

    Keep in mind that proper sanitation is a chemical process not a filter process.. Does not matter what filter you have, if your chemicals are not balanced correctly, you will still get algae..

    Do you actually have a waterfall?? If you are calling your spa spillover the "waterfall" then that valve is called a make up valve and allows you to put a little water into your spa to keep the water fresh when in the Pool mode... I have no idea what the other pipe, connected to that valve is for.. Try it and see what happens.

    Do me a favor.. double check your signature, as it just does not match your pool..

    Thanks for posting,

    Jim R.
    Sorry! My signature is my old pool. I'm moving and it's been a crazy week. As far as waterfall, yes the spa spillover. As far as the salt cell it doesn't work. I have an intellichlor ic40 that I plan on replacing the old one with some time in the near future. The heaters don't work. I can't tell what size filter I need as it's not marked on the canister but I'm sure I can get it out and figure it out. Thank you everyone so much for all your help! I'll let you know tomorrow if I can get the returns to work after I change out the filter
    19000 gallon concrete pool /Pentair 1.0 HP pump/ Pentair clean and clear 100 cartridge filter /Pentair IC40 SWG/ Hayward the Poolcleaner/ k2006

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    Today I found out how bad the leak on the roof was for the mesh type solar panels for the pool. It was like I River coming down the shingles work a couple of squirts here and there! I decided to take care of it since I'm getting the roof replaced and that thing is coming down. I'm still not getting any consistency to the floor Jets or the wall returns. Even when I get the wall returns running with good pressure they stop after a minute or two. The floor Jets are about the same..... Anyone have any idea why it would do that? Also the skimmer seems to have h half the suction of my old pool. If I turn the pump to 1500rpm it's like the skimmer isn't on. Is that normal?
    19000 gallon concrete pool /Pentair 1.0 HP pump/ Pentair clean and clear 100 cartridge filter /Pentair IC40 SWG/ Hayward the Poolcleaner/ k2006

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    Oh here's a photo!
    19000 gallon concrete pool /Pentair 1.0 HP pump/ Pentair clean and clear 100 cartridge filter /Pentair IC40 SWG/ Hayward the Poolcleaner/ k2006

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    s,

    Did you already clean your filter? What is the pressure when clean?

    If you had a single speed pump at your old pool, your new pool skimmer will not look like your old pool when run at 1500 rpm.

    In my pool, my skimmer runs at 1200 rpm... You see a little movement a the top of the skimmer, but not much. But.. it fills up with debris just fine and the surface of the pool seems to stay clean.

    If you want it to look like your old pool you just need to run the pump at 3450 rpm... A pretty silly thing to do however...

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    s,

    Did you already clean your filter? What is the pressure when clean?

    If you had a single speed pump at your old pool, your new pool skimmer will not look like your old pool when run at 1500 rpm.

    In my pool, my skimmer runs at 1200 rpm... You see a little movement a the top of the skimmer, but not much. But.. it fills up with debris just fine and the surface of the pool seems to stay clean.

    If you want it to look like your old pool you just need to run the pump at 3450 rpm... A pretty silly thing to do however...

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Thank you! Yes I cleaned the filter! It's at 20psi now. Still seems a little high? The filter is in great shape and is a pleatco advance.... Looks new ish.
    19000 gallon concrete pool /Pentair 1.0 HP pump/ Pentair clean and clear 100 cartridge filter /Pentair IC40 SWG/ Hayward the Poolcleaner/ k2006

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    Re: New Pool! Sort of!

    My biggest issue are the returns.... They don't seem to really work. So none of the debris floating on the pool goes anywhere
    19000 gallon concrete pool /Pentair 1.0 HP pump/ Pentair clean and clear 100 cartridge filter /Pentair IC40 SWG/ Hayward the Poolcleaner/ k2006

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