Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 75

Thread: High CYA - what to do first

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Imperial County, CA
    Posts
    230

    High CYA - what to do first

    I have an established, inherited pool that has lived on pucks for likely decades. The CYA is currently off the charts. I have a TF-100 kit but I'm not sure which chemical to bring under control first before I start up my intellichlor. Should I aim for making sure my pH is correct before I drain and retest CYA or can I just drain and fill and get my CYA in a ballpark range before going through all the tests?
    22K gal, IG plaster w/ 600 gallon spillover spa, EasyTouch 8 w/ ScreenLogic2, 3HP IntelliFlo, IC60 SWG, Hayward DE 4820 filter, M500 cleaning robot, and TF100 w/ SpeedStir

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Bedford, TX
    Posts
    9,883

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    b,

    Since the only way to get your CYA down is to drain some, or even all of your water, it only makes sense to drain and refill first, and then attack the other chemical levels..

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    North/Texas
    Posts
    58

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    check the thread at the top of this forum. diluting test for CYA. I just found out about this method and it will be a first for me to try as well.
    20'x40' vinyl liner pool, 23K gallons, filter: Hayward DE 3600 4820, 1hp single speed 1.65 V-Green VS motor, Circupool RJ-45 SWG, 1.5 inch PVC, 2 skimmers/1 main drain, 3 returns and 2 bubble jets @ stairs, and a partridge in a pair tree. testing: K-2006, Salt; K-1766, Test Strips; Aquachek 7. calculator: PoolMath

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Imperial County, CA
    Posts
    230

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    still draining...
    22K gal, IG plaster w/ 600 gallon spillover spa, EasyTouch 8 w/ ScreenLogic2, 3HP IntelliFlo, IC60 SWG, Hayward DE 4820 filter, M500 cleaning robot, and TF100 w/ SpeedStir

  5. Back To Top    #5
    needsajet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    4,541

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    Not sure about your situation or if you've covered this elsewhere, but draining a pool is a big deal and has risks. You can float the fresh water on top and suck the CYA laden water out the bottom, in most cases, especially this time of year with cool pool water. It will work as long as you introduce the fresh water gently, and remove water at around the same rate.

    Also, be sure your utility doesn't use March water usage as part of your sewerage charge estimate.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Tips for New Members to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Imperial County, CA
    Posts
    230

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    I've got two hoses in the skimmer on one end and draining from the main on the deep end. The fill water here in the desert is probably warmer then the water at the deep end, unfortunately. When I say, "still draining" I've done a 30-40ish% partial drain and refill two times now.

    Where I live, we have flat rate for sewer and water is relatively inexpensive. One of the advantages of living out here in agricultural central is that the farmers have a stranglehold on the water rights while the rest of the state has been under drought conditions for years.

    In any case, it's mixing right now so I can check CYA in the morning. I really don't want to have to drain and fill this pool 10 times or more but that's probably what I'll have to do. Then I'll lower my pH and SLAM...hopefully getting this under control before "summer" hits.
    22K gal, IG plaster w/ 600 gallon spillover spa, EasyTouch 8 w/ ScreenLogic2, 3HP IntelliFlo, IC60 SWG, Hayward DE 4820 filter, M500 cleaning robot, and TF100 w/ SpeedStir

  7. Back To Top    #7
    needsajet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    4,541

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    The cold pool water is to your advantage and you'll lose the least water doing it all in one go rather than some/mix/test. You can test to get your CYA and then math to know how much new water to put in. Then measure your flow rate by how many seconds to fill a 2 gal bucket. Then you can know how long to run the fresh water, draining as needed. It won't mix much, so it's quite predictable.

    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Tips for New Members to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Imperial County, CA
    Posts
    230

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    The CYA is still too high to test so I can't follow that suggestion yet. I need to get it down to at least the hundreds before I can even do a dilution test.

    This is the consequence of living in a desert environment with low humidity all year round, high evaporation rates, and pool service crews who simply chuck a handful of pucks into the water once or twice a week. This pool has had a steady buildup of CYA over decades rather than years.

    I'm draining it into my front and back yards with fire hoses so the water isn't wasted at least. My yards can't sustain 10K+ gallons of water at one time so partial drain and refills are "wasting" less water than doing it all in one shot down a drain.
    22K gal, IG plaster w/ 600 gallon spillover spa, EasyTouch 8 w/ ScreenLogic2, 3HP IntelliFlo, IC60 SWG, Hayward DE 4820 filter, M500 cleaning robot, and TF100 w/ SpeedStir

  9. Back To Top    #9
    needsajet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    4,541

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    No worries. Although this is not an approved method, you can use a measuring cup and a bowl to get a rough idea where you're at. Take 1 cup of pool water and add it to the bowl. Use the same measuring cup and water filled to the same 1 cup line, and add a cup of tap water four times. Mix it up and do the CYA test. Multiply your result by 5. Or make it 9 cups of tap water and multiply by 10. The more careful you are with the measuring, the better the ballpark figure, but it's still just ballpark.

    CYA gets slowly depleted from pool water by splashout, backwashing, leaks, and also some depletion from oxidation, perhaps 5 or 10 ppm per month if you've been dumping a ton of chlorine in to keep it from turning green. So you won't have every bit of it from the beginning. In really bad pools in your situation, we often see CYA over 300, sometimes 350 ppm CYA, but let's say 400 ppm CYA just as an example.

    Assuming a 400 ppm CYA start, 4 drain/refills of 35% would reduce the concentration to 70 ppm CYA which becomes manageable. I haven't heard of 1000 ppm CYA, but if it was, then it would be 4 drain/refills of around 50%.

    Nothing wrong with what you're doing, just threw out the layered exchange method as an option to reduce the time, effort and water. Don't let the plaster get dried by the sun. Good luck with it.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Tips for New Members to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Imperial County, CA
    Posts
    230

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    I did as you suggested at the end of my last drain/fill and ran water from one end to the other for a few hours. Today I'm down to measurable CYA @60. One more deep drain/fill and I should be ready to SLAM.
    22K gal, IG plaster w/ 600 gallon spillover spa, EasyTouch 8 w/ ScreenLogic2, 3HP IntelliFlo, IC60 SWG, Hayward DE 4820 filter, M500 cleaning robot, and TF100 w/ SpeedStir

  11. Back To Top    #11
    needsajet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    4,541

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    Excellent news!! You could SLAM at 60 or will be even better a bit lower. Great progress
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Tips for New Members to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Imperial County, CA
    Posts
    230

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    OK, well that initial test was diluted and when I re-tested it's *now* between 60 and 50 CYA non-diluted. If I slam at 60 poolmath is indicating I need roughly 6 gallons of 10% Cl to get it up to shock levels. If I bring CYA down to 30, then I'll need less Cl (almost 3 gallons) but I'll also need to buy nearly 8lbs of stabilizer to get it back up to 60-80 for my SWG.

    My water rates are ~$4/1K gallons ($40 to drain it down to 30 CYA)
    I can get 10% Cl for ~$3/gal ($20 to get it up to shock level @60 CYA or $10 @30 CYA)
    I can get stabilizer for ~$20/4lb ($80 to get it up from 30 CYA to SWG range after shock)

    So...that means I can spend $120 in water and stabilizer to save $10 in Cl for the initial rise to shock level and then however much Cl to get through the SLAM process

    or

    I can start the SLAM process with at 60 CYA and I'd have about 40 gallons of Cl before I started to spend more during the SLAM process than if I had drained it more.

    Am I looking at it incorrectly or missing anything?
    Does CYA during a SLAM process function like it does otherwise? That is, it takes more to get up to shock levels, but once there (and as long as I monitor it every few hours this next few days/week) I can maintain it just as easily as if I had a lower CYA?

    That is, it takes more Cl to get up there, but it'll still only take a gallon or two to maintain it each day once it's there? Or am I going to have to be pouring 2x Cl per day simply because it has high CYA?
    22K gal, IG plaster w/ 600 gallon spillover spa, EasyTouch 8 w/ ScreenLogic2, 3HP IntelliFlo, IC60 SWG, Hayward DE 4820 filter, M500 cleaning robot, and TF100 w/ SpeedStir

  13. Back To Top    #13
    DeanP66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    701

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    You should be fine doing a SLAM with CYA 60. Just check and redose frequently. Plus, if you've just emptied out a lot of water, it shouldn't take too long till your good to go.
    Pool size: 20,000 Gallon Plaster Pool, Pump: Hayward Tristar VS SP3202VSP, Filter: Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 320
    Polaris 280 Pressure side cleaner, Solar cover, Pentair Amerilite LED pool light, Taylor K-2006C test kit
    Location: San Jose, CA

  14. Back To Top    #14
    needsajet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    4,541

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    Other than the initial dose, it should take around the same amount of FC because the FC has X amount of stuff to kill. You might use a little bit more just because of the practical side of raising it a bit high when you know you can't get back to it in time, but it won't be much.

    And even with the higher initial dose, you might see an extra day or two of FC holiday at the end if the SLAM as it comes back down to maintenance level.

    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Tips for New Members to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Imperial County, CA
    Posts
    230

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    Well, the problem was less about the CYA and more about the CH (800+; turned blue and then turned back to purple after about 5-10 minutes) when I ran my battery of tests so I'm doing another partial drain before starting the SLAM.
    22K gal, IG plaster w/ 600 gallon spillover spa, EasyTouch 8 w/ ScreenLogic2, 3HP IntelliFlo, IC60 SWG, Hayward DE 4820 filter, M500 cleaning robot, and TF100 w/ SpeedStir

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Imperial County, CA
    Posts
    230

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    I'm in the middle of my SLAM and is there anything I can do to cut down on the reagents for the FC test?

    Here are my test results so far:
    Sunday Noon SLAM initial testsFC 0
    CC 0
    pH 7.0
    TA 130
    CH 625
    CYA 40
    SALT 550
    TEMP 78


    Added 4 gallons 10%


    3pm 3 hours after SLAM
    FC 14
    CC .5


    11am Monday
    FC 10.5
    CC 1.5

    1/2 gallon every 3 hours

    2:30pm
    FC 14
    CC .5


    9:30am Tuesday
    FC 12.5
    CC .5

    1/2 gallon every three hours

    3:30pm
    FC 14
    CC .5


    10:30pm
    FC 14
    CC .5


    9:30am Wednesday
    FC 15
    CC .5

    1/8 gallon every hour



    6:30pm
    FC 13
    CC .5
    22K gal, IG plaster w/ 600 gallon spillover spa, EasyTouch 8 w/ ScreenLogic2, 3HP IntelliFlo, IC60 SWG, Hayward DE 4820 filter, M500 cleaning robot, and TF100 w/ SpeedStir

  17. Back To Top    #17
    needsajet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    4,541

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    try a 5 ml sample where 1 drop = 1 ppm.

    switch back to 10 ml for Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

    Keep up the good work on your SLAM. Going well!
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Tips for New Members to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Imperial County, CA
    Posts
    230

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    Last night my FC was at 32-33 drops (16 ppm) and this morning I was at 28 drops (14 ppm). Is my SLAM over if all the other criteria are met since that's within the test's margin of error?
    22K gal, IG plaster w/ 600 gallon spillover spa, EasyTouch 8 w/ ScreenLogic2, 3HP IntelliFlo, IC60 SWG, Hayward DE 4820 filter, M500 cleaning robot, and TF100 w/ SpeedStir

  19. Back To Top    #19
    needsajet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    4,541

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    That's a famous question around here, but the answer is no. It's a 1 ppm drop or less to pass OCLT.

    That said, let the FC drop on it's own to around 8 or 10 ppm and re-do the test. It should take a couple days to drop, so enjoy the FC holiday!
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Tips for New Members to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Imperial County, CA
    Posts
    230

    Re: High CYA - what to do first

    The problem is that at these chlorine levels, there's no way to be certain of a 1 ppm drop. The instructions claim a 10% margin of error. Ignoring tester error, the test from last night was 29-35 drops (14-17ppm) and the test this morning was 25-31 drops (12-15ppm) so my pool's chlorine experienced somewhere between a 1 and 2ppm drop.

    What is the reasoning for letting it drop to 8-10 FC? Temps are mid-90s now and my CYA is only at 40 so I think it'll only take 1-2 days. I didn't add any liquid chlorine today but I did run my IC60 at 100% (.5ppm/hr) for nearly 12 hours and my Cl started at 14ppm this morning at 7 and ended at 15ppm at 9:30 so I lost 5ppm to whatever load it still has and the sun today. How much chlorine loss is expected when a pool is in full sun all day in mid-90 degree weather at 40 CYA?
    22K gal, IG plaster w/ 600 gallon spillover spa, EasyTouch 8 w/ ScreenLogic2, 3HP IntelliFlo, IC60 SWG, Hayward DE 4820 filter, M500 cleaning robot, and TF100 w/ SpeedStir

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •