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Thread: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

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    Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Hey guys,

    New to this forum but thought you could help. Just installed new PebbleSheen about a month ago. PB never informed me of the need to fill the pool in one shot and had to stop flow while leaving home for about a day. Obviously found out it's a major no no after the fact... That being said I have a slightly dark ring in the blue granite finish where the water stopped for that period of time. Noticeable for certain especially to me, sucks.

    Still waiting for PB to come back out and check things out. Is this fixable? Majorly bummed and of course all i see is this dark line in the pool...

    HELP!

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    Mod Squad Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Welcome to TFP! Oooooh, that does stink. I'll ping one of our plaster experts to see what he thinks. Not sure it he'll need it, but be prepared to upload a pic just in case he asks. Also, when you get a moment, please make sure to update your signature with all of your pool and equipment info. It will help us later. Nice to have you with us.
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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    There really isn't a fix for this. The darker color is likely through and through the plaster since the submerged portion was completely saturated but everything else above the water was dry and exposed to the air.

    If your PB's solution is to acid wash or do an acid bath then I would suggest you pass... It will not fix the issue but it will noticably make the surface more rough.

    Sorry for the bad news... How bad does it look?
    -Brian-

    Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Will update all specs soon and thanks guys! I'll see what they have to say but I fear you may correct on the permanence. Perhaps it'll fade over time. I feel the areas in the sun it shows less. Can any amount of elbow grease, metal brushing or using some abrasive material take off a layer? Any options? I'm finding out this is new pool start 101 but wish he could have told me very clearly, not just - fill the pool.

    It's not the end of the world and more pronounced in some areas, certainly not ruined just disappointing... If you look you'll see it but it's all I see. Darn.

    Thank you guys and any more advice or solutions would be awesome.

    Nick

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Just to clarify the Blue Granite is uniform in color/shade above and below the waterline - just a dark blue thin line at the water line.

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Have you tried...

    It is my understanding that PebbleTec/PebbleSheen can only be installed by PebbleTec-approved installers. It's to control the quality and protect the warranty of the product, I presume. Seems like, since this cast of installers are trained by PebbleTec (I'm also presuming), that they would bear the burden of things going wrong, such as this. Next in line would be the PB, who hired the PebbleTec guy. Last in line would be the non-expertise-havin' customer of both, the pool owner.

    Is there anything in your contract that spells out the PB is responsible for pool startup? That would be your first line of defense. Either way, I would call PebbleTec and try to initiate a warranty claim. And stand your ground. You could even give your local contractor's governing body a try. They'll have a complaint form, usually online. They'll first try to mediate, which might get you somewhere. And then there's always small claims court (if FL has such a thing).

    I think research, here or elsewhere is prudent, but before you try any sort of remedy yourself, be sure that what you might try would not actually negate the possibility of resolving this through warranty or legal action (and I'd caution that there probably is no remedy that would fit that criteria).

    It might be considered negligent of the PB and/or the PebbleTec contractor to release such an important task into the hands of the customer without proper instructions. If, in fact, you were not given such instructions, you might have some sort of case. Messing with a fix yourself, before you seek some resolution from the builders, will surely eliminate the possibility of going after them...

    Brand new pool finishes are ripped out and redone all the time when there is a flaw. It would be my position that the startup procedure is part of the installation.
    12300 gallon IG pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, IntellipH, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City/softened water.

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Thanks Dirk,

    I'll have to review the contract but the start up was pretty unclear and not properly explained. It's a company who contracts out certain pieces of their projects, pavers, pebblesheen etc. To boot they jacked up my glass tile with too much bonding that oozed between the grout and sides of glass tile. Agreed I'm not doing anything on my own before talking with them. They pride themselves on customer service and I'm hoping that's true... I'm not optimistic I'll get a new Pebblesheen finish based of start up, I am nearly certain the glass tile will be replaced. I'll have a drained pool so perhaps someone can even out the finish.

    So really I have multiple issues, just a bummer to spend so much and now have to go to battle after the fact. Very easy to get a hold of them to pay, now I wait till they can "make it over". ahh.

    Thanks everyone, I'm just hoping this dark line can be done away with.

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Another note: Would still like to hear if there are, if any professional recourse to fix such an issue. Thanks everyone

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Legalese aside, the first 30 days of start up are pretty critical, to the pebble's look and longevity. It's amazing how contractors can just dump it into the lap of the consumer. Mine did, and I ended up here for help. I was given instructions by my pebble contractor, but I fudged them and ended up with a small stain on my brand new pebble, so I have great sympathy for you. But in my case, I can't fault the contractor, who wasn't the culprit. IMO, your PB is at fault, who should have been looking out for his own hide if not yours! He definitely should have known better, and he should have handled the fill himself (even if you were given instructions!). Sounds like he was just being lazy, or had "somewhere else to be." And you shouldn't have to suffer for the result. But getting him, or PebbleTec, or whatever warranty-enforcing entity might come into play, to agree, is going to be your challenge.

    I'll give you the advice I was given. Play dumb. Don't offer any more information than required in any conversation or communication. Ask them questions, but resist answering any yourself (they'll all be looking for the scapegoat slip-up). And assume the position of the helpless consumer who was at the mercy of the big-bad contractors. You are not risking any ethics by this tactic. These guys are to blame, IMO, and they need to resolve the issue to your satisfaction.

    As someone commented, but for a different reason: resist an acid wash solution. Even if it would work (doubtful), beyond how your surface might feel afterwards, acid washing reduces the life of plaster, and to some degree pebble. Even if it solves or partially solves for the ring, all these guys will be long gone come pebble-replacement time, 1 to 3 years sooner than it would be otherwise (which you couldn't prove anyway).

    My gut: the fix is to live with it or get it redone. I doubt there's a magic solution. PebbleTec might know, but it can't hurt to keep asking around, as you are doing...
    12300 gallon IG pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, IntellipH, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City/softened water.

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Dirk,

    You're spot on man and sounds like you were in the same boat. Pardon my ignorance but I didn't think stopping a pool fill for a period of time would have irreversible affects. Well now I know..... If PB told me - "hey don't stop the water or you'll have permanent damage", I wouldn't be on here. Considering I need to have a tile job re-done 100% I'm not optimistic I'll get new Pebblesheen when they could blame it on me as well.

    Live and learn I suppose and again if anyone had a service done to even out a waterline ring let me know. I'll keep you all posted and thanks a ton.

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    I'm likely headed to litigation for my own set of PB woes. So that's why I'm all fired up and anti-contractor. My base argument: I'm the consumer. I did what I was supposed to do, which was to hire a professional, and a licensed and bonded one at that. I didn't try to do it myself. I don't know how to do it myself. I didn't hire some guy off the street. I paid a fair, agreed-upon fee. I didn't shop for a bargain. It is not my job to oversee the project and protect it from the professional's lack of knowledge/effort/expertise. And it's not my job to execute any tasks associated with the project. It's the professional's job to see to it that the project gets executed as per industry standards. And to take responsibility for problems that arise from faulty materials or workmanship. That's what profit and insurance are for. (I'm just practicing for my opening speech!)
    12300 gallon IG pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, IntellipH, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City/softened water.

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Agreed, I showed up to a hose filling my pool at an inopportune time when I don't have 24-36 hours to be home. Never told about it, just fill to middle of tile. No calls, no written instructions. Like you I thought I paid for that guidance and advice. Getting worked up myself. I take some ownership but again I was never fully informed of something so important, maybe the most vital piece of info they have for me.

    Money aside I want my darn backyard in working order, no contractors and a job paid for done correctly. Playing nice in the sandbox now but not for too long. Good luck to you my friend.

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    I hate to say it but I was never told not to stop either. Fortunately I found this forum before my fill and knew not to stop.

    It will be a mess if they only solution is to redo it. I hope it all works out. If you can live with it, maybe settle for a couple thousand credit.
    29k Gallon Free Form Gunite Pool, 3 floor returns, 2 wall returns, 1 vacuum pressure port, 2 skimmers, Main drain, Jandy 2.7HP VSP, Jandy JXI400N Gas Heater, Jandy CV340 Cartridge Filter, FusionSoft 1400 SWG, 2 Watercolors LED, iAqualink with PDA, Sheer Waterfall, Rock Waterfall, 9' Deep End w/Diving Board, SunDeck, Polaris 9650iQ, TF-100 - Pool Build - 2017 - Google Photos

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    To me that's negligence on your pb part. We have a what happens next appendix in our contract that we had to sign. It explicitly states we will begin filling your pool once the acid wash is complete. Do not turn off the water until it has reached half way up the swimmer box. It also says they are not liable for any damage caused by the water being turned off mid fill. I can guarantee I'll get an email on acid wash day stating the same. I find it bizarre that a PB would fail to mention such a critical step. After so much work it's hard to imagine he doesn't care enough about the finish to mention it. I really feel for you. I agree about acting dumb. I would complain about the the line and take it from there. If you can live with it, then some compensation would be better than nothing I guess. Or you could fight for it to be replaced.


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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Thanks guys,

    Yeah it's just total bull to not be overly informed on something so important. Unfortunately it's a he said/they said deal but I'm always listening when spending that kind of coin. Again it's not so glaring anyone would be like what in the world, just frustrating to even have to worry about it. Of course when you own it it's all you see.

    Still hoping it could be evened out, again suggestions are welcome. Brush the living daylights out of it? Maybe even time will do but still a drag. Sloppy tile is another story, surprised this came from a top rated pool company who puts themselves out there online/print etc.

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Still open to any treatment ideas, if we can go to the moon this stupid mark shouldn't be an issue? I can only hope. lol

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Uh, a lot of things went wrong getting to the moon. And space shuttles had all kinds of tile issues, if I remember right!
    12300 gallon IG pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, IntellipH, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City/softened water.

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Something to consider and/or investigate... Right off the PebbleTec website:

    After registering your PTI pool finish on our website, you will receive a confirmation email that contains a link to download the full protection plan including start-up and maintenance guidelines. After 30 days, we recommend you follow the National Plasters Council (NPC) guidelines that can be found by visiting: http://www.npconline.org/?page=start_up_card. Salt pools (SWCG’s) and PebbleFina Galaxy finishes should follow PTI’s ‘Start-up and Maintenance Procedures’ instructions.
    12300 gallon IG pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, IntellipH, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City/softened water.

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Lol, yeah maybe landing on the moon wasn't the best example. PB is coming today and I'll see what he has to say. Good luck and I'll share the outcome.

    Thanks everyone.

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    Re: Dark Bowl/Waterline Ring - New Pebblesheen - HELP!

    Express as little as possible. Just stand there, nod your head.

    You can tell him "I'm not satisfied."

    Let him do the talking.

    "I take some ownership..." Do no such thing. It may come to that, down the road, but that is not for you to admit/determine/establish. This is not a conversation about what you did wrong. Not even really about who is to blame. (That's for later.) This is about how this is going to get fixed.

    You can ask questions like "What can you do to make this go away?"

    Answer questions with questions. He asks "Did you stop the fill?" Just shrug, deflect and ask "Shouldn't I have received some instructions about the startup procedure?"

    If it goes south and he starts claiming "This is not my fault." or "I'm not paying for this." say nothing. Just nod your head. Don't engage this part of the conversation. Only that "Well, I'm not satisfied." and "This is going to have to be resolved somehow."

    You get the idea. Let him hang himself. Not the other way around.

    You're attitude should be "This is not acceptable. I'm expecting the PB to make it right." Because, after all, that is case.

    Then right afterwards, go inside and write down as best you can exactly what was said. Ideally you could have someone else stand there with you. Not ideally your significant other. Rather someone that can keep his/her mouth shut and just remember what was said.

    Best of luck. Keep us posted.
    12300 gallon IG pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, IntellipH, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City/softened water.

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