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Thread: Help pleaseeee :D

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    steveb21's Avatar
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    Help pleaseeee :D

    I have only been in the pool maintenance game for 12 months, completed a SLAM last year and got myself clued up on how things work.

    I have been away for a few months and had a friend to check FC/CC levels for me - not his fault however I don't think he understood how things work.

    Anyway, I am back home now.

    Pool has had a solar cover on for 2 months - with the odd exposure to daylight.

    Issues:
    The plaster where the coping meets the wall of the pool is breaking up, along with the small tiles coming off! I picked up approx. 20 tiles that had come off from around the water line. Looking at the results below, I take it this is because the CH has dropped so low?

    CYA - I done the test multiple times, each occasion I could still see the black dot - so my CYA is below 30. What shall I do about this? I cannot SLAM until I know an approx. CYA rating.

    Pool floor needs a clean up of leaves that have fallen.


    I am little confused on what order to tackle things so any input would be great.

    Completed tests now as follows:

    FC = 0 (added 3 drops of powder)
    CC = 0.5
    PH 7.4
    TA = 30 (3 drops)
    CH = 120 (12 drops)
    CYA = 30 maybe even less - dot is still visible



    (A test which I did 6 months back were:

    FC 8
    CC 0
    pH 7.2
    CH 280 (aim is to get this to around 350)
    TA 80 (was 100 before i started reducing pH)
    CYA 40)
    Outdoor Inground Heated Concrete Tiled Pool - 25ft x 12ft and 3ft 4" to 6ft 6" deep - 45k Litre Water Capacity
    Valve - Hayward Vari-flo 711-13 ------ Pump - Sta-Rite 5P1R
    Filter - Hayward S244T -------- Test Kit - Taylor K2006C

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    Mod Squad Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    Hello Steve! Looks like a SLAM is in order first. To do that, you'll want to do the following:
    - Lower pH just a little more if you can - to about 7.2 to be safe.
    - Make sure the CYA is clearly to 30
    - Increase FC to "12" (based on a CYA of 30) and continue with the SLAM (link below). If you find out later the CYA went a little higher closer to 40, then your FC SLAM level will be 16.

    Once you complete the SLAM, then it will be time to address the low calcium level which will include:
    - Increasing TA to the recommended minimum
    - Maintaining the pH in the mid-7s range
    - Increasing CH to the recommended minimum range

    The TFP recommended levels (link) is below in my signature as well. Hope that helps. Good luck!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    steveb21's Avatar
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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    SLAM time - again!

    Questions:
    I have removed the solar cover - OK?
    Shall I leave trying to clear up the leaves on the pool floor? or get much as I can out now?
    Shall I start the pump?
    pH - Pool math states to add 200g dry acid to reduce to 7.2 from 7.4
    As stated on my tests, the CYA is below 30, how can I raise this?
    I tested CYA on my tap water - I get the same results ? The CYA reagent I have has a date of 06/18

    What about the small tiles that have come off? I can see some others are a little loose aswell now.

    There is an on coming big temp drop coming for the next 7 days, temp dropping to -6 for a few days over night, will this have any affect on the SLAM?
    Outdoor Inground Heated Concrete Tiled Pool - 25ft x 12ft and 3ft 4" to 6ft 6" deep - 45k Litre Water Capacity
    Valve - Hayward Vari-flo 711-13 ------ Pump - Sta-Rite 5P1R
    Filter - Hayward S244T -------- Test Kit - Taylor K2006C

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    Mod Squad mknauss's Avatar
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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    You should leave the cover off during the SLAM
    Get all the leaves out.
    You need to run the pump to SLAM
    You should use muriatic acid to lower pH. Dry Acid (sodium bisulfate) adds sulfates to your pool water. As they build up they destroy metal items and concrete (plaster).
    You use Cyanuric powder to raise your CYA. Place the powder in a sock and hang in front of a return. I would add CYA in 10 ppm steps so that you do not go too high.

    Not sure about the tiles. To just put them back you might be able to use a water resistant caulking or adhesive.

    Why would your CH fall so much? Rain? You need to add that now too.

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa;Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump and HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. Dolphin Active20 Robot "Roadrunner", TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
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    Marty

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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    Hey buddy, I recall speaking to you last year regarding muriatic acid and not using sodium bisulphate.
    https://www.troublefreepool.com/thre...72#post1336172

    There is the thread - I was going to (have not yet) order the brick cleaner as the manufacturers stated it was plain muriatic acid. At the moment shall I use the sodium bisulphate I have to reduce ph 7.2 from 7.4 ? or shall I wait for the order to come through?

    Again, as I am in the UK, I cannot get hold of Cyanuric powder ... how else can I increase CYA?
    Outdoor Inground Heated Concrete Tiled Pool - 25ft x 12ft and 3ft 4" to 6ft 6" deep - 45k Litre Water Capacity
    Valve - Hayward Vari-flo 711-13 ------ Pump - Sta-Rite 5P1R
    Filter - Hayward S244T -------- Test Kit - Taylor K2006C

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    Mod Squad mknauss's Avatar
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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    You can use dichlor or trichlor to increase your CYA. Monitor how much you add. Use it for your FC until your CYA gets were you want it.

    Why are you dropping your pH so low? In the 7's is good. In fact, with your low CH, I would keep it in the high 7's until you get your CH up. And the dichlor or trichlor are acidic. So be aware of that.

    I would suspect long term use of sodium bisulfate is attributing to your loss of tiles.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa;Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump and HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. Dolphin Active20 Robot "Roadrunner", TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!! Pool Math App
    Marty

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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    Ah I just ready that pH can be between 7.2 and 7.5 for SLAM - so im OK with my current reading of 7.4pH (I will order the muriatic acid for future use )

    Last year by CYA was set at 40 - I guess that on OK figure for an inground?

    I have some PUCKS which the previous owner left behind, they should do the trick for bring up CYA right?


    Shall I add a puck, restest in a few days and then start SLAM when I have correct CYA ?
    Outdoor Inground Heated Concrete Tiled Pool - 25ft x 12ft and 3ft 4" to 6ft 6" deep - 45k Litre Water Capacity
    Valve - Hayward Vari-flo 711-13 ------ Pump - Sta-Rite 5P1R
    Filter - Hayward S244T -------- Test Kit - Taylor K2006C

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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    I have some PUCKS which the previous owner left behind, they should do the trick for bring up CYA right? Shall I add a puck, retest in a few days and then start SLAM when I have correct CYA level?
    They will increase CYA - slowly but surely. To see how much it will increase per puck, refer to the "Effects of Adding Chemicals" as listed on the Poolmath Calculator. No need to wait to do the SLAM and remove algae. If you have chlorine available, increase the FC to 12 and maintain it until you pass all 3 SLAM criteria. You can follow-up on the CYA progress over the next week or two. Once the CYA is where you want it, stop using pucks and stick with a non-stabilized chlorine. If you have any Cal-Hypo chlorine products in your area, that could also be used to increase FC while also increasing your CH level at the same time.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    Sorry f this sounds obvious however why do I know I need to slam at CYA30 / Shock level FC 12 WHEN.... I CYA is 30 and below?

    I have chlorine liquid available, are you suggesting I add a puck to the skimmer basket (to aid with increasing CYA) and also liquid chlorine to bump on the FC?
    Outdoor Inground Heated Concrete Tiled Pool - 25ft x 12ft and 3ft 4" to 6ft 6" deep - 45k Litre Water Capacity
    Valve - Hayward Vari-flo 711-13 ------ Pump - Sta-Rite 5P1R
    Filter - Hayward S244T -------- Test Kit - Taylor K2006C

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    Mod Squad Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    Sorry f this sounds obvious however why do I know I need to slam at CYA30 / Shock level FC 12 WHEN.... I CYA is 30 and below?
    Perhaps I misunderstood Steve - my apologies. If you have no algae following your return, then there is no need to SLAM. Simply adjust your levels as required and press-on. Yes, you can use a puck or two to increase your CYA. We recommend using your in-line chlorinator or a floater though because they are acidic. Never place them in the skimmer basket. Hope that helps. If you have any other questions, please let us know.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    could he put a puck into a sock and bust it up with a hammer, then set it front of a return not touching the pool?

    How much rain did you get? I believe your pool has got a 56% water dilution from rain and the water level was so high it got into your coping and behind it too many times.

    Use pool math to add enough pucks to get from a estimated '17' cya to 30-40 (I would add around 20ppm). With the miss managed pool I would go ahead and slam it so you can be 100% certain your good to go and no troubles later when it's actually hot.
    Casey
    Intex 24' x 52" closed for winter 2018, 2 Main Drains, 1 Skimmer, 1 Return, PVC
    1/2 HP Intex Pump 633T w/ Taeglus TA-40 175 lb 19.5" Sand Filter, Auqabot Extreme Robot
    TF-50 and Taylor 2006 Test Kits, Quality Well Water, Fleck 5800SXT Water Softener

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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    The water level got high however not has high has hitting the coping level .... ?

    The tiles that have come off and taken the grout completely off with them.... so its a plaster type of finish I can see. There was already further tiles already off when I purchased the property. Will try getting pictures up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    Perhaps I misunderstood Steve - my apologies. If you have no algae following your return, then there is no need to SLAM. Simply adjust your levels as required and press-on. Yes, you can use a puck or two to increase your CYA. We recommend using your in-line chlorinator or a floater though because they are acidic. Never place them in the skimmer basket. Hope that helps. If you have any other questions, please let us know.

    No need to apologise buddy, you are prob right, im just trying to make sense of this all

    I happy to go through with a SLAM that's not the issue, my query was why would I shock against a CYA of 30 ... when in fact currently my CYA is less than that?
    Outdoor Inground Heated Concrete Tiled Pool - 25ft x 12ft and 3ft 4" to 6ft 6" deep - 45k Litre Water Capacity
    Valve - Hayward Vari-flo 711-13 ------ Pump - Sta-Rite 5P1R
    Filter - Hayward S244T -------- Test Kit - Taylor K2006C

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    Mod Squad Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    my query was why would I shock against a CYA of 30 ... when in fact currently my CYA is less than that?
    You wouldn't - unless there was indeed algae or you failed an overnight (OCLT) test. If all is well with your water, then simply bump-up that CYA and maintain your FC to the appropriate level and you should do fine.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    Iím in the UK and donít have a problem getting CYA search for chlorine stabiliser conditioner
    This link is one http://www.ukpoolstore.co.uk/a catalog/blue_horizons_chlorine_stabiliser_cyanuric_acid.html


    10,000 gallons inground Leisure fibreglass pool, Hayward 0.5 HP Powerline pump, Quality 120 glass media filter, 27kw output air source heat pump and thermal cover.
    Retractable cover with Polycarbonate roof and glass side for all year round use. K-2006C test kit and Speed stir

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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    Quote Originally Posted by denniswiseman View Post
    Iím in the UK and donít have a problem getting CYA search for chlorine stabiliser conditioner
    This link is one http://www.ukpoolstore.co.uk/a catalog/blue_horizons_chlorine_stabiliser_cyanuric_acid.html
    Blue Horizons Chlorine Stabiliser - Cyanuric Acid - Chlorine Stabiliser
    Sorry that link above got messed up


    10,000 gallons inground Leisure fibreglass pool, Hayward 0.5 HP Powerline pump, Quality 120 glass media filter, 27kw output air source heat pump and thermal cover.
    Retractable cover with Polycarbonate roof and glass side for all year round use. K-2006C test kit and Speed stir

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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    Thank you! Funny enough now ive seen a pic of it.... I think there is a tub in the garage! Will double check shortly.
    Outdoor Inground Heated Concrete Tiled Pool - 25ft x 12ft and 3ft 4" to 6ft 6" deep - 45k Litre Water Capacity
    Valve - Hayward Vari-flo 711-13 ------ Pump - Sta-Rite 5P1R
    Filter - Hayward S244T -------- Test Kit - Taylor K2006C

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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    Yep, I have

    Its the same brand aswell although slightly different packaging. Chlorine Stabiliser / Chlorine Granules.

    Plan of action tomorrow:

    Vacuum pool
    Add granules to increase CYA

    How long after do I have to wait to add chlorine?

    Thanks
    Outdoor Inground Heated Concrete Tiled Pool - 25ft x 12ft and 3ft 4" to 6ft 6" deep - 45k Litre Water Capacity
    Valve - Hayward Vari-flo 711-13 ------ Pump - Sta-Rite 5P1R
    Filter - Hayward S244T -------- Test Kit - Taylor K2006C

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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    You can add the chlorine now. The sun will burn off the chlorine quicker when the CYA level is low. That is why a minimum of 30 is recommended.

    Maintain your FC and pH daily. Keep an eye on the other numbers every week or so. More often if you are having issues.
    20'x48' 40,000 gal. Vinyl, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST, Sta-Rite PLM300 System 2 Cartridge Filter, and a Pentair Mastertemp 250 heater all controlled by Pentair Easy Touch with Screen Logic. Dolphin Premier pool attendant.
    I've got iron stained well water. TF-100 and Speed Stir, Lamotte 3017-G for Borates

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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    Cya of 20-30 is also recommend since you can test for that, anything under 20 is a guess.
    Casey
    Intex 24' x 52" closed for winter 2018, 2 Main Drains, 1 Skimmer, 1 Return, PVC
    1/2 HP Intex Pump 633T w/ Taeglus TA-40 175 lb 19.5" Sand Filter, Auqabot Extreme Robot
    TF-50 and Taylor 2006 Test Kits, Quality Well Water, Fleck 5800SXT Water Softener

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    steveb21's Avatar
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    Re: Help pleaseeee :D

    Thanks for all your input so far.

    We are having a drop in temperature currently in the UK. Was -3 last night with it to to drop to -6 in a few days - expecting the cold snap to last a week.

    With the solar cover removed there was a blanket of ice over the pool this morning - will this cause any issues?

    I guess its a thought to leave the pump running until the cold snap stops? If not shall i release the prime in the pump to allow air in?
    Outdoor Inground Heated Concrete Tiled Pool - 25ft x 12ft and 3ft 4" to 6ft 6" deep - 45k Litre Water Capacity
    Valve - Hayward Vari-flo 711-13 ------ Pump - Sta-Rite 5P1R
    Filter - Hayward S244T -------- Test Kit - Taylor K2006C

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