Triton II TR100 sand filter and cloudy water

[notvaporlocked]

Both threads have been merged into one topic.

I have been fighting a algea bloom and pretty sure I have that under control. I am trying to get my cloudy pool cleared up at this point. I have looked back in the forum about 2 months looking for connected threads and have found several discussions that touch on related problems.

This will be come around to a filter thing in a minute so bear with me.

Currently with pool closed
FC 26.5 (just shocked it hard last eve)
PH 7.5?
ALK 80
Cal 250
CYA 40

Here is where I am at this point. About 10 days ago found my CYA numbers had reached the 90 range so drained 1/2 the pool and refilled. Brought all numbers back to ideal ranges. I was keeping chlorine (trichlor) in the 1-3 range and dumping 1 pound of cal hypo in each evening for a little bump. After a few days started to get the green algea tint. Every morning would find yellow grey loose stuff on the botton so I would vacume. Next morning same deal. Vacumed every morning for 6 days and did not seem to making any improvement. I took off cover to filter and decided sand level was a little low. I added 50 lbs filter sand. Filter did not seem to be holding the dead stuff and pool still had a green tint. Took off cover again after checking owner manual for recommended sand level and found it still may be slightly low so added another 50 lbs of sand. Afterwards measured freeboard and found I might be slightly high but closed up the filter and resumed 24 hr filtering. 2 days ago I shocked with 5 lbs cal hypo. Each lb should bring my 25k gal up a smidge over 3ppm. So I should have been in the 18 ppm range including the existing FC. Next morning, still green. Not bad green, you could still seee the bottom but not good either. By the end of the day of course, pool would be a little greener still. Finally last night after researching through the forum here decided I was not getting FC chlorine high enough in my shocks to break through. Found the CYA/FC chart and reshocked with 10 lbs cal hypo. This morning, green is gone but now the pool is very cloudy. Cannot see the brush in 3 1/2 feet of water. I check PH numbers and found it to be 8.0. This made sense to me because I know that cal hypo will raise PH. I added 22 oz of Muriatic acid. Then while reading more posts learned that PH numbers can be screwed up by high Chorine. So not clear where I am there exactly. Reading now shows 7.5 but the chlorine levels in sunny hot mid afternoon are still very high. I am guessing low 20's.

I suspected that the sand filter (finally getting to the point) was channeling. Took a rubber mallet and gently tapped on filter. My wife was brushing the pool and saw a large cloud of crud hit the pool from the jets. Hmmmm. Interesting. Took cover off of the filter and did the running hose trick working though the sand to flush stuff out the top of the filter and hopefully eleiminate and existing channels in the sand. Restarted filter and dumped more clarifier into pool and am waiting for the magic to happen. If its getting clearer its a slow deal. Has been about 3-4 hours and no noticable change yet.

THe filter was new in spring 2002 and the sand has not been changed. Of course I did add 100 lbs that has been mixed though the top 8-10 inches with the water hose.

Does anyone see anything I have missed. Our pool is in our campground business and I need to get this thing clear and clean. My campers are starting to talk about a revolution :-D

 

[notvaporlocked]

Cloudy water and clarifiers

I am trying to recover from a green algae bloom. Now have a white cloudy pool. I have added the recommended dose of HTH clarifier which by label is composed of a "cationic polymer". It doesn't seem to help. Anyone have experience with this stuff and how much could be too much. Can I just keep adding the stuff a dose at a time every 8 hours until the water clears up?

FC 11
PH 7.5
Alk 80
Calcium 250
CYA 40

My pump is running 24/7 and since this algae problem does not seem to want to gain any pressure. I have worked with it to try to resettle the sand and even adding sand. I posted on the filter section about the work I have done to try to get the filter to work better.

 

[dmanb2b]

Re: Cloudy water and clarifiers

you can try a skimmer sock

 

[notvaporlocked]

Re: Cloudy water and clarifiers

I have been around awhile but know nothing about skimmer socks. Could someone bring me up to speed.

Terry

 

[duraleigh]

Re: Cloudy water and clarifiers

If it were my pool, I would skip the clarifiers and skimmer socks. I would count on chlorine and filtering to the clear the pool because it works.

The cloudy portion of the shock process may last a few days. Run your pump 24/7 and make sure you have no more algae by running an Overnight FC Loss test. It is explained in Pool School. You may well find you have to reelevate your FC levels.

 

[reebok]

Re: Cloudy water and clarifiers

did you test for CC's? did you do an overnight loss test to insure there's no more live algae? pool-school/overnight_fc_test

skimmer socks are fabric things you use with the skimmer to catch some stuff before it hits the filter. you can also use knee-hi's from walmart. here is an example of a skimmer sock:
http://www.skimmersocks.com/

whoops I see duraleigh beat me to the punch

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

It can take a week for a sand filter to clear up an algae bloom.

Did you do an overnight test to confirm it's dead?

 

[notvaporlocked]

I pushed the free chlorine up to 19 last eve with bleach and am down to 15 this morning with a touch of CC. .5 or less, just a little pink. Still have some organics. Water is a little less cloudy this morning, I can start to see dead stuff on the bottom around the drain at 5 ft.

Filter still has not increased pressure. I tapped on the gauge thinking it was stuck but seems to be OK. Flow is still good, vacume is still good on the Stingle. I can't figure this filter out. I have had it for 7 years and know how it acts. Its always been predictable. For as much algea and white stuff I have vacumed and filtered over the last week I normally would have thought it would have needed to be backwashed by now. It still reads 11 psi which has always been the clean reading.

I am a little afraid to vacume the dead stuff off the bottom this morning afraid I will just stir things up. I am considering running about 30 miles over to where I can pick up some DE powder and trying a little of that in the sand. Guess I should go ahead and pick up a new batch of sand while I'm there. I was hoping to replace it this fall after we close the pool and it has a chance to try out a little. Will the DE trick buy me 35 days and give me clean enough water in the short term?

Does anyone know what the downsides are to using the clarifier? What happens if I keep adding it. Is it bad for swimmers? Is there a point in whcih I cross some thresshold and my other chemistry goes kaput?

I want to thank everyone for their help, I've got a lot of people here that are looking at me to get this thing going so they can get back in the pool.

Terry

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

If you are having that much of an overnight loss then organics is the issue, not the filter.

You should not use clarifyer at this point (not really necessary at all IMHO).

Raise it back up to shock level today, testing and adding bleach hourly if you can, and repeat the overnight loss test tonight.

As long as you have good flow thru the returns and the gauge isn't rising I don't see the need to backwash. Sometimes dirty sand filters better anyway. You stated you checked it for channelling so the filter doesn't appear to be the issue to me.

The overnight loss is the key suspect. So continue to shock until the FC holds overnight. By tackling it hourly during the day you will make quicker progress, obviously this uses more bleach because a lot of it is lost to sunlight, but the water needs to clear, right?

Once the overnight loss confirms no more organics, then you can try clarity tricks like DE in the filter. Right now you need to focus on shocking. Hope this helps.

 

[duraleigh]

I am a little afraid to vacume the dead stuff off the bottom this morning afraid I will just stir things up. I am considering running about 30 miles over to where I can pick up some DE powder and trying a little of that in the sand. Guess I should go ahead and pick up a new batch of sand while I'm there. I was hoping to replace it this fall after we close the pool and it has a chance to try out a little. Will the DE trick buy me 35 days and give me clean enough water in the short term?

Good Morning, Terry,

1. Stirring things up is a good thing. You may trade off some temporary clarity but you have to get the junk out.

2. I'm not sure DE will help you at all.....I wouldn't use it but it will cause no harm.

3. How did your sand get low in the first place?

4. My sand is at least 6 years old and I will likely never replace it. Many on here don't replace sand either.

5. Keeping your FC up at shock level and running your filter 24/7 will do more to clear than anything you can do.

6. I have the same filter, just a little bigger, when I run it the correct number of hours and keep my FC at the correct level. My water is virtually invisible.

7. If you are completely convinced that your filter is returning dirt to the pool, you have a malfunction in the filter....usually something wrong with the standpip or a torn lateral.

 

[notvaporlocked]

Most of the dead algae was concentrated in the main drain area so I went ahead and vacumed it. Filter pressure came up 1lb and clarity did not seem to change. It seems to have stayed in the filter.

I'm still not sure about the filter. I have always liked sand filters for this application but his one is started to act wierd so I am going to change out the sand and check out the guts just to be sure thats not the problem.

In normal situations I would apply some pop at this point but I've got to get the clarity to at least swimmable levels. I have to get this thing open or I'm gonna loose business. My campers aer starting to get the pitch forks out

I'm going to maintain FC at least 10 today and replace the sand. Tonight I'll push the FC back up and see where I am in the morning. I'm hoping I can hold the current organics at their current level through the day and do the kill tonight. I know its not the best way to fix this but I've got fewer options than I like.

What do you think. WIll the FC at 10 hold things through the day. Other than a little bathing suit fade...... :?:

Terry

 

[gsmornot]

Until you get the algae to the point you only loose 1ppm or less overnight it won't matter about bathing suits during the day. What I mean is, you need to set and hold the shock level for however long it takes to clear the problem, not just clear the water. The only way to know when to stop is water testing. Your shock level is about 15 and high level is about 24 at a CYA level of 40. If your trouble is regular green algae then hit 15 and keep it there. That means adding chlorine day and night or anytime it dips below the shock level. If you keep it there for a day or so your overnight loss will finally catch-up. Then as the filter clears the dead stuff you will be good to go. Swimmers can get in up-to the shock level and probably above. I have have been in mine when it was close to 20 with no other effect than to smell the chlorine which I normally don't.

You might have trouble with your filter but unless your seeing sand from the return or on the bottom it's probably fine. Changing it won't clear your pool any faster.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Ditto. keeping the FC up to shock will speed things up. If you get it up shock now and check it hourly, adding bleach to maintain shock level, you should see some progress by tomorrow. Letting it drop back down means two steps forward, three steps back if you know what I mean.

 

[notvaporlocked]

Thanks for the help. I changed out the sand mainly to eliminate that possibilty. It was 7 years old and the pool gets pretty good use in the summer so not knowing what was going on there just decided to do it. Now I know for sure it is OK. Laterals checked good also.

I will maintain FC and check overnight.

I can get 6% bleach at the local Walmart and Sam's not to far away. I have noticed some around here are using stronger concentrations. Is there a good source to buy large quantities that can ship at a good price.

Terry

 

[reebok]

you don't really buy chlorine shipped. bleach is a better option. the people who get liquid chlorine generally get it from local pool stores. availability and price varies by location.

 

[notvaporlocked]

We have owned this pool for 9 years. This is our first pool and I take a lot of pride in keeping the water in good condition and the pool looking nice. I do not have any other pool experience to compare it to. Thats some of the background.

This pool seems to take a lot of chlorine and attention to keep it in the zone. I always wondered about people with pools that just have a pool guy come once a week or do very little to keep everything in range. I check our pool at least 3 times a day and sometimes more. I spend a lot my days in the summer maintaining this pool. Granted there are days when I can have 30 people in the pool and I suspect that some that are here on any given day may have been swimming in a lake yesterday transfering whatever algae happens to tag along in the swimwear.

I am constantly in the middle of a learning curve. The great thing about this site is that it has opened up my thinking again on the maintenence of this pool. I am starting to connect the dots better on the amount of time required for pool upkeep and the quality of the pool and swimmers.

I mentioned the problem with the lake swimmers. Thats not news to me. What I have not been thinking about was the structural problems that are contributing to high chemical costs. Our pool is 35 years old, poored concrete with a few relatively minor cracks. When we drain the pool every spring to power wash and paint, several of these cracks will seep ground water. I have been working on these in a piecemeal fashion over the years but still have a problem. We have been debating our options to fix the problem. Now after my time here at TFP I understand how these cracks may be the source of the lingering low level algae that ocasionally blooms.

My suspicion is that I always have some algea but my efforts tend to keep it at a manageble level. I have been unaware of the bigger picture. Since I have no other pool experience it has been easy to think everything was normal.

I want to thank everyone here for their help up to this point. In the future I will be asking a lot more questions and looking for guidance for renovation ideas.


As an update for the problem this thread was started for, This morning after an overnight FC test I had lost 2.5 ppm. CC was up a little also to 1.0 Water is starting to look good. Cloudyness is mostly gone. I vacummed the bottom again. So even though its looking better I still have a problem.

Yesterday after changing out the sand in the filter I could start to see some improvement in the clarity after about 6 hours. Who knows, it may have responded that way without the sand change but I just had a feeling something was not right there. Seven years ago when the filter and sand was new the water really sparkled. Over the years not so much. This year the water just didn't have that look that I wanted. The next week or so will tell if I get that sparkle back.

I'm still working on the problem while trying to work around my campers. Again I want to thank all for their help up to this point and look forward to expanding my base of pool knowledge as we go along.

Terry