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Thread: Current Automation Technology Gap

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Current Automation Technology Gap

    Well, my actual opinion on the matter is that Pentair is INCREDIBLY behind the times in terms of automation. If my $80 HP printer can have a built-in wireless IP access point AND Bluetooth access as well, then it’s just stupidity and cheapness on the part of automation companies (Pentair, Hayward & Jandy) to not offer that same technology in their panels. Then, there would be no need for any adapter hardware as Smartphones of any kind could easily connect directly to the panel’s logic and control it. Proprietary/locked technology that they currently offer is a relic of a bygone age of business thinking....clearly their executive suite needs to be “upgraded” as well....
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Very weird Easy Touch Control issue

    8500 gallon IG Pebble Sheen with Spa. 3hp Pentair VS Intelliflo ( pool ), 3/4 hp WhisperFlo ( water feature ),Pentair Racer, 400K Pentair heater, Pentair 500sqft Cartridge filter, EasyTouch 8, Stenner 45mp2 15gallon wired to ET8

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    Dirk's Avatar
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    Re: Very weird Easy Touch Control issue

    JN - I think weíve agreed on this elsewhere. I could easily cite a dozen examples where Pentairís tech is decrepit, or downright missing! They should be embarrassed. They could be doing soooo much better. Home automation, user interface, features... you name it. Their only possible defense, Iíll admit, is the user base itself. Iíd love it if my Pentair gear did one-hundredth of what my smart phone can do, but the total number of Pentair automation consumers must be one-millionth of smart phone users (or some such crazy number). The R&D resources are just not gonna be there...
    12300 gallon in-ground pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating system. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City water.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Very weird Easy Touch Control issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk View Post
    JN - I think we’ve agreed on this elsewhere. I could easily cite a dozen examples where Pentair’s tech is decrepit, or downright missing! They should be embarrassed. They could be doing soooo much better. Home automation, user interface, features... you name it. Their only possible defense, I’ll admit, is the user base itself. I’d love it if my Pentair gear did one-hundredth of what my smart phone can do, but the total number of Pentair automation consumers must be one-millionth of smart phone users (or some such crazy number). The R&D resources are just not gonna be there...
    Agree somewhat.

    Fact of the matter is, the pool market is a high-end market with access to people who spend A LOT of money on pools. And the simple automation technology that most of us would appreciate is sufficiently mature enough that it shouldn’t be too hard to find a couple of engineers capable of piecing it all together. Heck, folks on here build Raspberry Pi and Arduino controllers that can do more than what my EasyTouch panel can do.

    The real issue is profit - the panels they make are sufficiently cheap enough compared to what they sell them for that I’m sure some bean counter just below the executive suite flips his toupee and spits out his coffee every time someone mentions dropping the profit margin by half a percent to upgrade the tech.

    My professional life would have been much more fun had it not been for lawyers and accountants.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Very weird Easy Touch Control issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Pool Clown View Post
    Getting back to the problem at hand...

    You may have partially lost the comm connection.

    The comm wire has four connections. Red and Black are power, Yellow and Green carry the data back and forth. If you loose power (no lights), you have lost the power leg, and the panel will not work at all. If you loose both of the data, it will not talk or listen. IF YOU LOOSE ONE, either the Green OR the Yellow, you will get the symptom(s) you have, you may, or may not also notice a "NO COMM" in the upper left side of the display.

    Comm wires fall victim to rats and mice chewing on them more often than a true COMM failure. I would check the comm wire from the box at the equipment all the way to the remote mounted on the wall in the house. I know, this may mean getting up into the attic, or underneath the house to chase the wire, but i would hate for you to get a new remote, Screen logic, etc, only to find out the problem persists.
    Good notes.

    When he mentioned batteries, that led me to think he doesn’t have the hardwired wall unit, but more likely the one with the antenna. That’s why I asked for his model number, to figure out how his comm wire connects. It might just be a foot long length at his ET, from the receiver to the ET. But you’re right, those connections should be checked first. If he’s got a remote with a comm port, I was going to suggest he bypass all wiring and transmitters/receivers and connect the remote directly to the ET with a short length of 4-conductor wire. That would tell us pretty quick if it’s the remote or not... basic troubleshooting routine: disconnect all that you can and then add it back in one at a time until you find the culprit.

    But until he checks back in...
    12300 gallon in-ground pebble, freeform 19x28, 1 skimmer, 3 returns, no floor drains, auto fill. Pentair: EasyTouch PSL4, ScreenLogic2, Indoor Control Panel, Intelliflo 2 VST, IntelliChlor IC40, CCP320 Cartridge Filter, MasterTemp 250 Heater, Rebel Suction-Side Cleaner, IntelliBrite. Solar and cleaner actuators. Heliocol HC-50 8-panel solar heating system. FlowVis Flow Meter. Taylor: K-2006 and K-1766 Test Kits, SpeedStir. City water.

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    Re: Very weird Easy Touch Control issue

    I wrote a post a while back, may or may not had been on this forum, and it went something like this...

    There will be those that pass judgement on a particular product or manufacturer, and that is OK, i would agree for the most part, when the judgement is accurate as it is in this case.

    The architecture of the present automation may be a bit dated, but is that the reason for the failure? And does it necessarily warrant the above discussion? Within this thread? Keep in mind that there are tens of thousands of these units out there and you would think that, by reading some threads, here or there, that a very high percentage of the units are failing. That would be because you only hear about the failures. When the product is performing as it should, consumers, for the most part, will not seek out forums to convey their positive experiences, only the negative. There is also something to be said about the techs here that comment. I have seen on several occasions, (and no, i will not provide links, you will have to trust me as i will not violate the trust of anyone here with names) techs will bad mouth products or manufacturers. I will also agree with this. Although i generally think twice about "pileing on" when it happens. This is a public forum, and negative comments, if worded carefully, can do good. But the point i'm trying to make here is that, when a customer makes a purchase without getting advice from here, which BTW is not a requirement, he or she doesn't particularly want to hear how bad the product that he or she just spent $100, $200, or whatever amount on, is. PPL come here for advise to repair, not necessarily to replace with another manufacturer, or the afore mentioned reviews. I'm not sure they want their thread to turn into a negative commentary on how archaic or "bad" their automation is either (see previous sentence). I have noticed that the OP has not responded since his original posting.

    Did we scare him away with the direction the thread had taken?


    "There will be those that pass judgement on a particular product or manufacturer"
    Some forums have areas dedicated specifically to particular manufacturers, or manufacturers as a whole, for this purpose. It keeps both threads, the commentary thread, and the help thread, going in their respective direction, and users can link others to it that may be needing more info without their thread getting pulled away from the "helping" direction they were asking for originally.
    Factory Warranty Station for:
    Jandy/Zodiac, Pentair, Sta-Rite, Raypak, Polaris,
    and Paramount pool cleaning systems.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Current Automation Technology Gap

    I’m certainly guilty of posting “chit-chat” in threads that interest me (see “Brian’s Wanger” in his SoCal Pool Build thread) as it’s usually about a fun topic. I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing as it shows that this forum has its fun side. There are many Internet forums where you’ll be taken to the wood shed and banned for posting non-germane comments (and plenty of completely unmoderated forums) but I don’t think TFP wants to go in either of those direction. Many people like TFP because it offers a little bit of fun for folks who like to mix it up in the comments. Plus, it’s also winter time and TFP’s posting rate is rather slow at the moment. So this time of year let’s those of us that enjoy socializing on the interwebz do so before the crazy season starts.

    As for manufacturers, well, they're doing plenty fine on their own and I’m sure they’re losing no sleep over what the likes of us pajama-clad armchair technicians say & do....however, if any our esteemed experts in the industry would like to illuminate us on the finer points of the pool industries technological roadmap, that would be most enlightening and appreciated
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Current Automation Technology Gap

    I seem to remember reading somewhere that both Pentair and Jandy outsourced all of their software development...and possibly even the same company/developer did their automation several years ago.

    I know it is hard for my company, even as a pseudo-technology company, to do complete system re-designs and junk an entire software ecosystem - which is what really needs to happen.

    If you eliminate the big software companies form the equation you generally see that newer startup companies, doing things from the ground up, tend to produce the best "new" software systems. I haven't seen many existing companies do wholesale changes to their product line very often.

    Might be a good time to build the Troublefreepool add-on box. Build an android device that can take over any brands automation system and control the pumps, valves, SWCG, solar etc...but make it IFTTT, Alexa, Apple Home, smart hub, and Google home compatible...Just a little tiny box with a LCD for programming (think something like a Rainmachine or Rachio type device that does irrigation control).
    2015 Build Link: 15'x30' Rectangle (3'-6", 5', 4' depth) 14,000 Gallon Pool, Finish: Wet Edge Primera Stone Black Kona. TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin DX5+S Robot, Jandy CL460 Filter, VS 2HP pump, AquaPure 1400 SWG, iAqualink2, Automatic Safety Cover. No Heater

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