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Thread: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

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    Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    Hello Everyone,

    I am a longtime reader and first time poster. Our pool was built 15 months ago by Riverbend. I have been fighting PH the whole time. It feels like I am pouring MA in all the time. I have used the store "recommended" expensive chemicals and have experienced many of the issues outlined in thsi forum. Between different pool supply stores, I get varied answers. So I would appreciate the real truth Then I can make the switch to BBB!

    1) Once I shock or add with bleach, how long should we wait before swimming? We have a 16 month old son as well. So pardon my ignorance, just a concern I have. I know to wait 4 hours to swim after adding MA. If I add 1 gallon of 6% bleach to 10000 gal, it will raise the CH 6ppm? If I only want to raise it 3ppm, I would add 1 gallon per 20000 gal?
    2) Using bleach, I shouldn't follow the "recommended" shock schedule set by the pool company? I should shock the pool when my CC hits a certain range and then follow the shock instructions? The Taylor K2005 does not have the overnight test? Does the TF100? Can someone outline this test for me? Do I need to get a separate sample in the morning?
    3) Should I remove my Polaris daily? How often should I run it?
    4) How many hours should I run my filter pump?
    5) Can I use a SS brush on this plaster finish?
    6) Is Borax needed if my PH is always high? I also have a beagle who likes to drink water from the pool. I have tried to discourage it; however, I am not sure he will listen when I am inside.

    Raised Spa with waterfall into pool and 2 scuppers as well.
    Jandy 60 sqft DE filter
    2.5 HP Stealth Circulation Pump
    RiverSand Finish with Tahoe Blue
    Polaris 280 Complete with booster pump
    LARS LT40 Natural Heater
    Rainbow 320 Chlorinator
    Nature 2 Express Complete
    Del Ozonator Systm
    28179 Gallons (40ft x 20 ft)
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by modog
    1) Once I shock or add with bleach, how long should we wait before swimming? We have a 16 month old son as well. So pardon my ignorance, just a concern I have. I know to wait 4 hours to swim after adding MA. If I add 1 gallon of 6% bleach to 10000 gal, it will raise the CH 6ppm? If I only want to raise it 3ppm, I would add 1 gallon per 20000 gal?
    Welcome to TFP!

    Since you spread it around while adding it, either by walking around the pool or pouring it slowly into the skimmer, I don't wait at all. It quickly mixes. Shocking is a different story, and you should wait (especially with your son) until the chlorine is back down to a reasonable number, close to the target FC in the Chlorine/CYA chart.

    I think 4 hours is a little excessive to wait after the MA.

    You are using the abbreviation CH for chlorine, but CH is used for Calcium Hardness. It could get confusing. Chlorine consists of Free Chlorine (FC), which is chlorine available to sanitize, Combined Chlorine (CC) which is chlorine "bound-up" attempting to sanitize, and Total Chlorine (TC) which is the sum of free and combined chlorine.

    You are correct about the bleach numbers, but you need to be aware that 6% bleach is usually sold in 96oz jugs instead of gallons.

    Quote Originally Posted by modog
    2) Using bleach, I shouldn't follow the "recommended" shock schedule set by the pool company? I should shock the pool when my CC hits a certain range and then follow the shock instructions? The Taylor K2005 does not have the overnight test? Does the TF100? Can someone outline this test for me? Do I need to get a separate sample in the morning?
    It doesn't matter how you chlorinate, the weekly shock schedule isn't necessary if you have a way to monitor your combined chlorine.

    The overnight test is simply testing the FC after the sun goes down, then testing it in the morning before the sun is out. Any chlorine consumed during darkness is a result of organic contaminants in the pool since there is no sunlight to break it down. It is an excellent indicator of the status of algae problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by modog
    3) Should I remove my Polaris daily? How often should I run it?
    4) How many hours should I run my filter pump?
    5) Can I use a SS brush on this plaster finish?
    6) Is Borax needed if my PH is always high? I also have a beagle who likes to drink water from the pool. I have tried to discourage it; however, I am not sure he will listen when I am inside.
    Run your Polaris as much and as often as you like. It depends on how much dirt gets blown into your pool.

    Pump run time depends on many variables. Start around 12hours and adjust it to suit you.

    Talk to your pool builder or the finish manufacturer about brushes.

    pH will be high on new plaster. Keep adding the muriatic acid as needed. The water fall also works to raise your pH.

    Please consolidate your signature to 5 lines or less. It makes your posts easier to read.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    1. it depends on your cya level. you didn't post any test results. CH is calcium hardness. FC is free chlorine and CC is combined chlorine. you can swim 30 minutes after chemical additions. forget about anything the pool companies have told you. pool-school/read_before_you_post pool-school/swimming_pool_definitions_abbreviations
    2. if you use the chlorine/cya chart you will never get cc's to begin with. forget about anything the pool store has told you.
    3. yes and run it until its clean. you'll get used to it.
    4. I would say 8 for now and use this guide later when you get your pool in order. if you need to shock (again no test numbers or water clarity complaints so I have no idea if you need to or not) then run it 24/7 during shocking. pool-school/pump_run_time
    5. not sure. I wouldn't.
    6. don't get confused between borax for raising ph and borates for water quality and other benefits. don't worry about this just yet. get some test results and post them, and ditch the nature2 system.
    the fas-dpd test can be purchased seperately. http://www.tftestkits.net/index.php?act ... oductId=23

    dang, John beat me!
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    Thanks for all the help! I figured that Nature 2 stuff was not doing much. Did I waste money on the Ozonator as well? When I use the pool calculator, is there a limit on the amount of bleach and MA to add at 1 time?
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by modog
    Thanks for all the help! I figured that Nature 2 stuff was not doing much. Did I waste money on the Ozonator as well? When I use the pool calculator, is there a limit on the amount of bleach and MA to add at 1 time?
    An ozonator does protect against somethings that chlorine does not. If used properly it can be beneficial, but not required.

    As far as how much of what to put in. You will get a better feeling as you do it more, but until then you can just add half, test, then add the rest. Chlorine and MA are not as bad as adding too much CYA as they are needed constantly where CYA can be a pain to lower.

    You will fight rising PH in a newly built pool. As it is 15 months old now I would expect this to lessen, but someone will be along that will know more about it.

    dave
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    yes you did, sorry. an swg (sat water chlorine generator) is the best thing to buy for a pool as far as that stuff goes. ozonators are mainly a pain because they kill your good chlorine as well as bad. you basically have to run the same chlorine levels with an ozone system as without it, and you sure as heck don't want to follow the .5-1ppm chlorine levels that nature2 and I believe the ozone systems preach.
    there's not really a limit, as long as you're putting the numbers in the calculator correctly. when you add a chemical, pour it slowly (stream about the size of a pencil) in front of a return jet.
    your pool should be done curing by now.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by lovingHDTV
    An ozonator does protect against somethings that chlorine does not. If used properly it can be beneficial, but not required.
    hi dave,
    can you expound on that statement?


    alternative-sanitizers-and-chemical-free-pools-the-truth-t3025.html
    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    How about ozone and UV light? They have their place in spas but I don't find any value in a pool. Ozone will destroy chlorine but will oxidize organics so it's a two edge sword. You will generally have higher chlorine consumption with ozone than without and it does NOT allow you to run lower chlorine levels because there is NO residual effect from the ozone. The higher bather to water ratio in a spa makes ozone much more useful there than in a pool. Ozone is toxic. IMHO, ozone is more useful in bromine systems since it will activate the bromide into bromine sanitizer so it works with bromine instead of against it. However, it will cause bromates to form and they are a suspected carcinogen in drinking water!
    UV light can kill pathogens and some of the units also produce some ozone. Once again, more useful in a spa than a pool, IMHO.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    Thanks everyone for helping me out! I feel stupid for buying expensive chemicals (i.e. poolife turboshock, oxiclear shock, 3" tabs, etc.). I also bought a few Orenda products, phosphate remover (pr-10000) and a enzyme/clarifier/phosphate killer (cv-700). These are extremely pricey as well. Can I stop using these once I am on the BBB method?

    Also, I brush the walls and steps weekly and a little of the floor, I have a polaris 280 that runs daily for 2 hours. Is that sufficient for the floor? Or do I need to manually vacuum as a supplement?
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by modog
    Thanks everyone for helping me out! I feel stupid for buying expensive chemicals (i.e. poolife turboshock, oxiclear shock, 3" tabs, etc.). I also bought a few Orenda products, phosphate remover (pr-10000) and a enzyme/clarifier/phosphate killer (cv-700). These are extremely pricey as well. Can I stop using these once I am on the BBB method?
    just be glad you found the site now. you won't have to buy stuff like that ever again!

    Quote Originally Posted by modog
    Also, I brush the walls and steps weekly and a little of the floor, I have a polaris 280 that runs daily for 2 hours. Is that sufficient for the floor? Or do I need to manually vacuum as a supplement?
    is your pool clean? that's the only measurement, but definitely brush weekly no matter what.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    I did my last poolife turbo shock today. I am going out to get some baking soda and bleach. I will start off this week on the BBB. My only concern is we are leaving out of town for 5 days on 8/15 and I hesitate to start the BBB now. How should I handle the days I am gone? Maybe go ahead and use the turboshock and start BBB when I return?

    Also, the K2005 Taylor kit does not meaure higher Chlorine levels, does it? Does Taylor offer one that does? Or is there a comprehensive one from another manufacturer?

    Mo
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    without current test results I wouldn't buy baking soda. and without current test results it's hard to advise about your time away.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    Ok I understand. I just added MA and shock. I will post my results tomorrow morning. Thanks for all of the advice and I would appreciate any help along the way as I work my way into BBB.
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by modog
    . My only concern is we are leaving out of town for 5 days on 8/15 and I hesitate to start the BBB now. How should I handle the days I am gone? Maybe go ahead and use the turboshock and start BBB when I return?

    Also, the K2005 Taylor kit does not meaure higher Chlorine levels, does it? Does Taylor offer one that does? Or is there a comprehensive one from another manufacturer?

    Mo
    I've got a suggestion, since you want a more comprehensive test kit, get the TF100 that most of us here use. It is about the same price, more chemicals, and everyone here is really familiar with it. Then, since you will be gone, order it now and it will be waiting for you when you return. A perfect time to switch over.

    Then when you get back you go find the best deal on chlorine, either liquid chlorine from the pool store or Clorox or house brand 6% bleach from Sam's, Costco, Walmart, or your grocery store. Chlorine does degrade with time and so no need stocking up in advance. You will need bleach, you will probably need Muriatic Acid. You may not need anything else and you won't know until you start testing.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by reebok
    Quote Originally Posted by lovingHDTV
    An ozonator does protect against somethings that chlorine does not. If used properly it can be beneficial, but not required.
    hi dave,
    can you expound on that statement?
    Ozone has been found to be more effective that chlorine on:
    Giardia, Cryptosporidia, Blastocystis, Cyclospora and Microsporidia.

    Here is a quick linky:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11478459

    I'm pretty sure it has been fully discussed here on TFP.

    dave
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by anonapersona
    I've got a suggestion, since you want a more comprehensive test kit, get the TF100 that most of us here use. It is about the same price, more chemicals, and everyone here is really familiar with it. Then, since you will be gone, order it now and it will be waiting for you when you return. A perfect time to switch over.
    the thing about that is you'll be buying the same thing twice. two sets of everything (tubes, comparator, etc.) so you're paying twice for the same stuff. this is probably one reason the fas-dpd test can be bought by itself.
    http://www.tftestkits.net/index.php?act ... oductId=23
    when I first got my tf100 I was ticked off because I had every single thing in the kit except the fas-dpd test. I am happy with it now as my stuff was kind of old, but nonetheless keep it in mind before you double up on everything.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    [quote="reebokthe thing about that is you'll be buying the same thing twice. [/quote]

    Oh, you know, I think that clicking "view active topics" has got me missing a lot of continuity in posts. I need to be more careful. Good catch reebok, as always.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    I was not able to find "oxiclear shock" in google, what is that? (ingredients from the label). Poolife Turbo Shock looks like cal-hypo; some people like to keep it around for times when you need a quick dose, you've run out of bleach, and the stores are closed. It has a long shelf life. The 3" tabs will be trichlor, useful for vacations or if your CYA is just a little on the low side. Also a long shelf life if you keep the tub closed tightly.

    When I go on vacation, I boost up the FC with bleach a bit and then put some 3" tabs in a floater. The tabs last a bit more than a week and I'm rarely gone longer than that so it works pretty well.

    I leave my Polaris in all the time except when somebody's swimming. It runs 2 hrs per day. I haven't found a need to vaccuum. The Polaris mostly keeps up with the leaves.

    Like others advise, you have a K-2005 the only thing you're really missing is the FAS-DPD which is more $$ but easier to use and accurate up to 50ppm. I find it invaluable.

    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    I think the Oxi stuff is MPS or "non-chlorine" shock and really isn't suited for outdoor pools, I wouldn't use it.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    thanks for all of the help. i will keep everyone posted once i get back in town and start the bbb. i am sure i will have questions
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    Re: Making the leap of faith to BBB! Need Help!

    Just wondering if you order the TF-100 Kit and it comes while you are gone if there s someone who can get it in out of the heat so it doesn't sit on a hot porch or something waiting for you to return for several days. I'm guessing it shouldn't be allowed to get too hot or it might not be good for some of the chemicals.
    POOL: Intex ultra new in 2014 (32 x 16 x 52) (seasonal; on concrete pad covered with 1.5" extruded or whatever foam insulation sheets - ugly, but comfy); added a through-wall skimmer; I add salt for feel. EQUIPMENT: Pentair SuperFlo pump (1HP, 2SPD); Pentair cartridge filter (200 sq. ft); Pentair MasterTemp natural gas heater (400,000 btu) Climate/Location: Eastern Nebraska

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