Backyard Stereo System Design

[Pool Novice2]

As of now, I'm starting from scratch on my sound system.
So, here's the plan:
1. Neighboring houses are close, so I want to have sound facing in toward my house from backyard fence areas. It's not exactly a requirement, but trying to be a good neighbor.
2. Electric runs in loop along my backyard fence...so I can set up posts and tap into electric anywhere along fence.
3. My original concept was: Amp in house, hooked up to amazon echo device that was located in sheltered outdoor area (I have an eave off back of house for this) with electric powered (meaning plugged in) outdoor speakers connected to amp via WIFI.
4. WIFI router is in back of house, so reaching outdoor speakers via WIFI should be possible.
5. The concept...good sound, can float in pool and tell echo device to change station/volume/etc and with outdoor speakers that are plugged in for power, but use WIFI (vs limited range bluetooth or speaker wires) to connect to AMP. The concept about not having speaker wires was because the length of the line may be long to reach fence and direct sound in to house and also for flexibility to easily change speaker locations.

I'm not an audiophile. Don't need the best, but obviously want good sound with flexible design and ease of use. Is the above possible? People told me Sonos, but it doesn't appear that have an outdoor speaker product. It seems like all of the outdoor speakers I find are either bluetooth/battery operated or wired with speaker wire.

So...my question is...does anyone make/sell outdoor speakers that I can plug in (preventing battery loss concerns) that will connect via WIFI (wirelessly) to an indoor amp that can also connect to an echo device....without reinventing the wheel.

I'm guessing it's possible, but can't seem to find it. Can anyone help?

 

[kimkats]

I don't know but know someone that might. Let me give them a ping to see what they have to say.

Kim

 

[jimim]

So u r totally out for wires? Length doesn’t matter really unless over 500-600 feet? I just don’t like wireless speakers. U r just so limited with wireless for outdoor speakers.

 

[Acmfl]

So u r totally out for wires? Length doesn’t matter really unless over 500-600 feet? I just don’t like wireless speakers. U r just so limited with wireless for outdoor speakers.

This! I looked to do something similar but I went with the PLAY-FI whole house audio using a mix of wireless and wired speakers. This is the thread where I try to explain what I did outside: Added TIC gs4 8” dvc speaker....love my sound system!
I also have a couple of the Polk Omni rechargeable weather resistant speakers I can bring outside that have Play-fi built in. Play-fi works with Alexa, although I don’t use that function. Play-Fi

 

[Pool Novice2]

So u r totally out for wires? Length doesn’t matter really unless over 500-600 feet? I just don’t like wireless speakers. U r just so limited with wireless for outdoor speakers.

Thanks for the input. I'm not ruling out wires. All things being equal, I'd rather not dig up part of the yard to run buried cable....although I'll absolutely do that if necessary. My bigger issue was having the flexibility to move the speakers from place to place if I wanted to change around the general layout of the yard for dining/fire pit, lounge chairs, etc and then move the speakers. Basically, once I lay buried cable, I'm pretty much locked in. It just seemed like wireless WIFI would be easier now and in the future.

You made two comments that I'd like to understand a little more:
1. You just don't like wireless speakers. Why? Poor sound quality? Expensive? Range?
2. You're just so limited with wireless for outdoor speakers. How? Range or availability?

Thanks. I really don't know much about this and certainly don't know the answer...which is why I posted the question. Anything you can do to educate me is appreciated.

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This! I looked to do something similar but I went with the PLAY-FI whole house audio using a mix of wireless and wired speakers. This is the thread where I try to explain what I did outside: Added TIC gs4 8” dvc speaker....love my sound system!
I also have a couple of the Polk Omni rechargeable weather resistant speakers I can bring outside that have Play-fi built in. Play-fi works with Alexa, although I don’t use that function. Play-Fi

Thanks....I'm going to check out your links now...

 

[Acmfl]

Poolnovice2 - I should have said Alexa works with some of the play-fi products, they are updating and adding new products that work with Alexa.

My issue with outside wireless speakers speakers has been having to charge them. For instance the Polk Omni sr2 I mentioned is weather resistant if you cover the charge plug port with the silicone plug cover. It can play for 10 hours on a charge but you can’t just leave it plugged in outside unless you have it in a covered area. The waterproof outdoor wired speakers are built to resist water.

I know some folks on here have used chromecast audio outside. You might want to research that option also.

 

[steveinaz]

Are you planning TV as well outside? Some BluRay players can act as digital media players via Wi-Fi OR usb connected Hard drive. (Oppo comes to mind). I play *.flac files from a hard drive thru my Oppo then on to a small TEAC integrated amp via digital coax cable. My setup is easy because my patio is like 10 feet from the pool, so I just did outdoor speakers mounted from the ceiling of the patio, pointed at the pool. I can play XM, CD's, music files, Bluetooth from guests cellphones, TV audio stations via DirecTV, etc. You only need about 20watts/RMS for residential outdoor applications---unless you like visits from the police. LOL

 

[ny2nc]

Hi there Pool Novice 2!

We did our pool build last year and included a sound system at that time. My hubby and his buddy ran speaker wires from a box in the wall behind our living room setup, under the house, through our crawl space and out into our backyard. It is outdoor rated pretty substantial speaker wire (12 gauge in conduit, direct burial) that was then placed in small PVC pipe and buried about 3 ft down. We hooked into these two speakers https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007STKHP4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 placed roughly equidistantly and pointed TOWARD our house. They are connected to our 2-channel receiver in our living room an Onkyo NR656 https://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR6...qid=1516626800&sr=8-2&keywords=onkyo+tx-nr656 This has worked flawlessly for us. We can play our music pretty loud (for parties and such) and it is not a disturbance for our neighbors. In fact the neighbors behind us can't hear it at all. Which is saying something because we had a kids party with about 30 littles + parents + kids bop on repeat for 3 hours and they had no issues with the music. Now, 30 giggling/screaming kids they could hear...but not the music!

Our receiver can play music from a USB drive, Pandora, Spotify, Alexa (through Alexa we can play Sirius XM). All of this can be controlled inside our home or outside via the Onkyo app on our phones. If we want to, we bring Alexa outside so that we can tell her what songs to play. Last detail with the receiver is that since it is 2 channel, we can either play the same music throughout the house or someone in our living room can be watching tv, etc at the same time. I'd say next to the pool it is our favorite feature of our pool build and worth every cent!

I'll see if I can post a couple of pictures later today so you can get a feel for our set up.

In short, we didn't use wireless speakers because we felt they would be underpowered (especially because we have a waterfall feature that makes noise). Even if wireless you would still have to power them somehow (rechargeable batteries, power cable). We felt a permanent solution was a better choice for us. Any questions, I am happy to try to answer!

 

[Demegrad9]

Just to throw in another option out there for outdoor stereo systems. You could just buy a couple block rockers with FM tuners. Then get an FM transmitter, some come with Bluetooth

Block rockers usually have a pretty serious rechargeable battery so you get 8-10 hours of music, they're portable so you just wheel them out by the pool for the day.
https://www.ionaudio.com/products/details/explorer-outback

Then you'll need a FM transmitter. Some this like the Whole House FM Transmitter 3.0 is FCC compliant but doesn't have Bluetooth (which is really stupid of them)
https://www.amazon.com/Whole-House-...r=8-3&keywords=whole+house+fm+transmitter+3.0

Or something like this CZH FM transmitter which has Bluetooth but probably isn't FCC compliant (though it has adjustable output power, so you can just keep it low to stay within the approximate range of 200 feet range allowed by the FCC)
https://www.amazon.com/CZH-Transmit...&sr=1-3&keywords=czh+fm+transmitter+bluetooth

If you get a Bluetooth FM transmitter, I'm assuming your Alexa should be able to send music to it. And all this requires no installation of any kind. Also if you're looking to get more coverage around the pool, just grab any old stereo or boom box you already own that has an FM tuner on it.

 

[jimim]

Thanks for the input. I'm not ruling out wires. All things being equal, I'd rather not dig up part of the yard to run buried cable....although I'll absolutely do that if necessary. My bigger issue was having the flexibility to move the speakers from place to place if I wanted to change around the general layout of the yard for dining/fire pit, lounge chairs, etc and then move the speakers. Basically, once I lay buried cable, I'm pretty much locked in. It just seemed like wireless WIFI would be easier now and in the future.

You made two comments that I'd like to understand a little more:
1. You just don't like wireless speakers. Why? Poor sound quality? Expensive? Range?
2. You're just so limited with wireless for outdoor speakers. How? Range or availability?

Thanks. I really don't know much about this and certainly don't know the answer...which is why I posted the question. Anything you can do to educate me is appreciated.

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Thanks....I'm going to check out your links now...

the range of wireless speakers is just not good i feel. we have customers that always want wireless speakers. i have 1 zone in my full home audio setup that i run various wireless speakers. i move them all over my home outside. doing garden, washing trucks in my garage (which is close to my stack of equipment mind you), out in back yard. front of house doig work. always hit and miss. i might go days perfect then i get days of nonsense. it's just not reliable enough for us. last thing i want is calls that a speaker is in and out. i want 100% reliability with no call backs cause no calls means everything is now it should be. wired in my opinion has always been solid and always will be.

now 1 little iphone and 1 speaker a few feet from it wit hthese little setups people do are totally fine, but when you start doing these mesh networks and more complex setups it's just not as good i feel.

sound quality is so subjective. i'm not audiophile. never considered myself with that. plus it's surround music for environment. you aren't in a soundproof treated room so all you need is it loud enough for the purpose without overstressign the speakers which is so easy to do anyway.

bluetooth range is still pretty poor in general.

maybe it's cause i'm still pretty old school but all of our wired setups regardless of price range are rock solid. we have wired setups out there 20 plus years old now. i go back when someone wants to upgrade and i remember the job but then i see the equipment and i smile cause it is just so old but still does what it did when installed.

jim

- - - Updated - - -

Are you planning TV as well outside? Some BluRay players can act as digital media players via Wi-Fi OR usb connected Hard drive. (Oppo comes to mind). I play *.flac files from a hard drive thru my Oppo then on to a small TEAC integrated amp via digital coax cable. My setup is easy because my patio is like 10 feet from the pool, so I just did outdoor speakers mounted from the ceiling of the patio, pointed at the pool. I can play XM, CD's, music files, Bluetooth from guests cellphones, TV audio stations via DirecTV, etc. You only need about 20watts/RMS for residential outdoor applications---unless you like visits from the police. LOL

i love when someone mentions oppo. you know they know quality video and audio. lol good stuff. the best actually.

jim

 

[jimim]

Hi there Pool Novice 2!

We did our pool build last year and included a sound system at that time. My hubby and his buddy ran speaker wires from a box in the wall behind our living room setup, under the house, through our crawl space and out into our backyard. It is outdoor rated pretty substantial speaker wire (12 gauge in conduit, direct burial) that was then placed in small PVC pipe and buried about 3 ft down. We hooked into these two speakers https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007STKHP4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 placed roughly equidistantly and pointed TOWARD our house. They are connected to our 2-channel receiver in our living room an Onkyo NR656 https://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR6...qid=1516626800&sr=8-2&keywords=onkyo+tx-nr656 This has worked flawlessly for us. We can play our music pretty loud (for parties and such) and it is not a disturbance for our neighbors. In fact the neighbors behind us can't hear it at all. Which is saying something because we had a kids party with about 30 littles + parents + kids bop on repeat for 3 hours and they had no issues with the music. Now, 30 giggling/screaming kids they could hear...but not the music!

Our receiver can play music from a USB drive, Pandora, Spotify, Alexa (through Alexa we can play Sirius XM). All of this can be controlled inside our home or outside via the Onkyo app on our phones. If we want to, we bring Alexa outside so that we can tell her what songs to play. Last detail with the receiver is that since it is 2 channel, we can either play the same music throughout the house or someone in our living room can be watching tv, etc at the same time. I'd say next to the pool it is our favorite feature of our pool build and worth every cent!

I'll see if I can post a couple of pictures later today so you can get a feel for our set up.

In short, we didn't use wireless speakers because we felt they would be underpowered (especially because we have a waterfall feature that makes or a 2 channel rnoise). Even if wireless you would still have to power them somehow (rechargeable batteries, power cable). We felt a permanent solution was a better choice for us. Any questions, I am happy to try to answer!

there you go that is your rock solid typical don't break the bank setup. using a receiver for a second zone or a dedicated 2 channel one like here. most are controllable now. if they have spotify or pandora built into them better. if not hook something up to it that does and control it. all this app controlled and media controlled apps are built into everything now.

most of our easier setups are just like this. the additional thing we do sometimes cause people still love the feel of physical buttons is run extra wires for speaker know xontrols cause most the time people set the music and forget it. a pandora channel say, but they want to adjust volume and like not having to gra ba phone or an app and can just turn a knob.

this is what i would do and talk about alot on this board if not going full house or multiple zone control.

but again you can add multiple zone control to this setup with control knobs and zone selectors for speakers but then you have ot make sure everythign is balanced power wise.

jim

 

[steveinaz]

If possible, buy your gear used. You get way more bang for your buck. I have a Yamaha receiver in my shop that I bought 11 years ago for $20 bucks! Still works fine.

Here's the TEAC integrated with built-in DAC and Bluetooth I have:



I have an XM tuner, Oppo BDP-103, and DirecTV receiver connected, and speakers are Dayton Audio IO655W outdoor.

 

[Tx-C]

I would not recommend a wireless speaker for outdoor, I understand you want to be able to re arrange but I would prefer using a 7.2 receiver which gives you the opportunity to have different zones ( play different audio sources at each location like Sonos) I would run the cabling under ground in some PVC. You can use a Marantz 7.2 or Denon 7.2 receiver for this and it has an APP so you can control what you want in either space. Sonos is pretty cool too, just thoughts here, hope this helps!

 

[sehrmude]

Before you bury the wires, place speakers in various locations. I'm planning this out for my house now and, learning from past mistakes, will use at least four speakers instead of 2. If you place more speakers around the area where people will be, you can all listen to the music at a comfortable level. At the last house, I had two speakers mounted to the house wall. If we were playing out in the yard, the music was too loud for the people sitting on the deck.

 

[shanebo]

How many speakers are you planning to hook up? I'd leave my amp inside, place 2-3 outdoor speakers down each side of my fence, and connect them in parallel via landscape wire. Cheap and easy, and should last a lot longer than wireless. My similar setup is 8 yrs old and still going strong. I control everything from my phone via a remote app.

 

[Pool Novice2]

Thanks for the feedback. This has all been very helpful. Ultimately, it sounds like I should avoid full time wireless speakers...whether WIFI or bluetooth.

Next question...does it significantly matter if speakers are hung at a height of about 10ft vs placed on ground...like rock speakers? I'm asking because I can very easily hang speakers off the back of of my house (under an overhang) and run wires to an inside receiver vs run wires underground with some obstacles that I'll need to work around...but will if it makes sense.

Here's why I'm asking....someone once told me that hanging speakers at a height (maybe 10ft) that face down toward people can be a problem. Here's the explanation....music that comes from ground speakers will travel farther before reaching ear level vs sound that comes out of hanging speakers directly to ear level....hence the ground music will cover more distance before becoming too loud for those nearest to the speakers. With speakers hanging down, the music becomes too loud for anyone near the speakers before it reaches farther into the intended music coverage area. At the time, that explanation sounded reasonable to me, but I really have no idea how sound waves travel, etc. Incidentally, I don't have a big yard, but it has a firepit area and grill area that bend around corners...so I want the music to reach those locations without being too loud for the people that are closer to the music source (speakers).

Thanks.

 

[will]

Personally I think wired is worth the effort. I have 2 Klipsch AW 650 on the pool house wall, 2 JBL's on a tressel and last night added a Klipsch AW650 rock speaker and I am amazed how good the rock speaker sounds

 

[hollywoodfrodo]

I'm a huge fan of Chromecast enabled WiFi Speakers, most especially if you have a music streaming service (we subscribe to Google Play Music) to run on them, but these speakers either have to plug into power or they have a limited amount of time before the charge runs out. So while great for inside where you have plugs everywhere, I don't think they are ideal for outside.

We're just getting ready to start our pool build in a week or so. In my initial planning, I laid out where I want to put speakers and how I will integrate mostly wired speakers, but also make use of one or two rechargeable/portable speakers that have Alexa and/or Google Assistant built in both for voice control of lights and pool equipment as well as streaming music (Google Assistant). I'm going to have a total of 6 wired speakers - the hub receiver will be in the garage because our pool will be in our small back yard with the garage to one side of it. I'm mounting 2 speakers (Polk Atrium) to the garage overhang facing the pool, a 3rd one to the garage overhang in front of the garage facing a patio area, and the 4th one to a Gazebo we'll have at one end of the pool. Then I have two rock garden speakers that I will have in the small garden area on the opposite side of the pool than the garage. Our yard is small so I think this will be way more than enough, probably overkill, but as I live in SoCal and houses are close to each other I wanted to be able to have music heard everywhere in the pool area without having to turn it up loud and bother the neighbors. The wireless speaker/s (and voice assistants) which of course will be reachargeable (but I'm looking at ones with 8-10 hour battery life) I'll just throw on a table on either end of the pool when I go out there.

We're lucky in that we've laid this out ahead of time and our pool builder is going to lay conduits for the speaker wire, but even without that, as others have said, if you want a good permanent speaker system, you're better off going wired if there's any way you can make it happen.

 

[induce]

Poolnovice, i like ur original idea. i think i'm gonna do kinda the same. But, i think I'm gonna use old school wired outdoor speakers.
i installed an outdoor access point so plenty of wifi outside. i think i'm gonna buy another echo dot, place it inside a sprinkler enclosure box,(just open the door to it when i'm outside), run the 3.5 output out of the echo into an inside amp.
wire speakers to amp and go. phone not needed. tell alexa (from outside) to play xyz on pandora, and boom it comes thru amp and then to outdoor speakers. nothing to move in or out, and echo will also convert to bluetooth with voice command and you can rock your iTunes off your phone or pad, again without going inside. i've looked at sonos, et al, but all $$$$$.
I know you are trying to avoid running wire, but let me say this, this is our 3rd pool.........(yeah, i know)
1st had indoor amp and wired outdoor speakers. pain to change music and volume.
2nd had amp outdoors and that was awesome. But, not everybody has a waterproof place outside.
now, i seen people doing this sprinkler enclosure thing, its awesome. the thread is on here somewhere, i'll see if i can find it. They are putting mini amps inside these and everything is outside. i might try this, too.
not to hijack thread, but i am open to suggestions, too.
Thanks !

 

[induce]

found the thread that shows sprinkler box......
Best setup for outdoor stereo system